Catholic pastors directed to distribute anti-health reform materials at mass

[Danno 1,228]

I'm surprised that some of you are surprised.

How else would you expect the catholic Church to respond to an issue they see as GOV funded killing of unborn babies?

My how we applaud the Church when their Priest marched for civil rights or any of the other issues the Church has waded into but if they object to this one provision of this reform bill.... a provision which would FORCE all tax payers to fund abortion.. you think they should shut-up and sit-down.

Every Church and indeed any group has an obligation to speak out and take a stand against Government acts which are contrary to core values of it's group. (for or against)

That The church did not rail against private insurance companies is clearly something different all together as no one is forced to join nor support them in the unavoidable way we will, with this Bill.

IF the Church can't use the Parish to address the issue of "life", they best close up shop and call it quits.

Seriously, I doubt they are interrupting the Mass its self to give this information... or perhaps you don't know what the mass even is?

They are probably putting a paper in the Church bulletin

Or mentioning it in another part of the service.

The outrage is because, what the church is doing goes against everything that is Christlike. Jesus never said anything about abortions, however he wandered from village to village healing the sick. Providing healthcare for all is one of the basic elements of Christianity. In fact, when a missionary goes to a rural community, one of the first things they do is to build a school and a free clinic to help the needy. So when the church does something un-christlike in the name of Christ, there is going to be plenty of outrage!

Don't be silly, Jesus never spoke against Child porn either... or even sex with kids... does that imply it's "okay"?

From your response I can see you have no idea (at all) of the Good work the Catholic Church has done and is doing in these very areas (and many others) you mentioned... please educate yourself first before condemning others.

Perhaps you missed this quote from the OP.

<<<QUOTE

A little over 100 million Americans are treated through Catholic hospitals and health centers. There are 624 Catholic hospitals in America. Also, 11 of the nation’s 40 largest health care systems are Catholic, such as Ascension Health, Catholic Health Initatives and Trinity Health.>>>

Edited November 3, 2009 by Danno

[Chris_Жанна 11]

I went to a confirmation mass a few years back an Cardinal O'Conner was the speaker. Everyone was very excited to have him as such an esteemed guest speaker at the ceremony. Well, instead of the Cardinal speaking of the significance of these young adults becoming adults into the church he went off on a 45 min lecture on anti-abortion.

I think most ppl regardless their stance were very disappointed that Cardinal O'Conner turn this into a soapbox speech instead of speaking of how this is an important day in these young ppls religious lives.

This doesn't surprise me at all.

[Nina~ 431]

I'm surprised that some of you are surprised.

How else would you expect the catholic Church to respond to an issue they see as GOV funded killing of unborn babies?

My how we applaud the Church when their Priest marched for civil rights or any of the other issues the Church has waded into but if they object to this one provision of this reform bill.... a provision which would FORCE all tax payers to fund abortion.. you think they should shut-up and sit-down.

Every Church and indeed any group has an obligation to speak out and take a stand against Government acts which are contrary to core values of it's group. (for or against)

That The church did not rail against private insurance companies is clearly something different all together as no one is forced to join nor support them in the unavoidable way we will, with this Bill.

IF the Church can't use the Parish to address the issue of "life", they best close up shop and call it quits.

Seriously, I doubt they are interrupting the Mass its self to give this information... or perhaps you don't know what the mass even is?

They are probably putting a paper in the Church bulletin

Or mentioning it in another part of the service.

The outrage is because, what the church is doing goes against everything that is Christlike. Jesus never said anything about abortions, however he wandered from village to village healing the sick. Providing healthcare for all is one of the basic elements of Christianity. In fact, when a missionary goes to a rural community, one of the first things they do is to build a school and a free clinic to help the needy. So when the church does something un-christlike in the name of Christ, there is going to be plenty of outrage!

Don't be silly, Jesus never spoke against Child porn either... or even sex with kids... does that imply it's "okay"?

From your response I can see you have no idea (at all) of the Good work the Catholic Church has done and is doing in these very areas (and many others) you mentioned... please educate yourself first before condemning others.

Perhaps you missed this quote from the OP.

<<<QUOTE

A little over 100 million Americans are treated through Catholic hospitals and health centers. There are 624 Catholic hospitals in America. Also, 11 of the nation’s 40 largest health care systems are Catholic, such as Ascension Health, Catholic Health Initatives and Trinity Health.>>>

I never denied that the Catholic church did any charity work, nor did I condemn them. It is just silly to deny healthcare to all because it may facilitate abortion for a few. It would be more Christlike to provide healthcare to all, than to police people around.

And your child porn argument is an apples-to-oranges argument..

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yeah seriously - I guess these priests have never heard of "the lesser evil".

** the people who can't get healthcare and end up dead or bankrupted, apparently its only important that a 14 y/o can't have a termination.

Bloody idiots.

Edited November 3, 2009 by Gene Hunt

[HAL 9000 96]

Yeah seriously - I guess these priests have never heard of "the lesser evil".

** the people who can't get healthcare and end up dead or bankrupted, apparently its only important that a 14 y/o can't have a termination.

Bloody idiots.

Its the usual incongruous imposition argument. Nothing new with those that use moral logic to argue one thing, yet embrace the slippery slide when it comes to everything else.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I recently spoke with my Dad over this - he's been an ordained Catholic Deacon for over 30 years. He said he's really not up to snuff on all the details, but he made this interesting comment - the Catholic Church is also against capital punishment, but you probably won't see too many bishops campaigning against policies or even candidates that support capital punishment.

The Catholic church is also against lying but to lump all offenses into one pot... and suggest that they all merit the same response is shallow.

Death penalty and Abortion are both contrary to Catholic teaching but they are not accepted as equal offenses.

The viewpoint against abortion and the death penalty are the same. The Catholic Church believes in the sanctity of all life, not just for the unborn....and they extend that to other conditions, including working conditions, wages, etc.. Read the Gospels sometime and see what Jesus spend most of his message on...social justice.

[HAL 9000 96]

I recently spoke with my Dad over this - he's been an ordained Catholic Deacon for over 30 years. He said he's really not up to snuff on all the details, but he made this interesting comment - the Catholic Church is also against capital punishment, but you probably won't see too many bishops campaigning against policies or even candidates that support capital punishment.

The Catholic church is also against lying but to lump all offenses into one pot... and suggest that they all merit the same response is shallow.

Death penalty and Abortion are both contrary to Catholic teaching but they are not accepted as equal offenses.

The viewpoint against abortion and the death penalty are the same. The Catholic Church believes in the sanctity of all life, not just for the unborn....and they extend that to other conditions, including working conditions, wages, etc.. Read the Gospels sometime and see what Jesus spend most of his message on...social justice.

What a liberal!!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I recently spoke with my Dad over this - he's been an ordained Catholic Deacon for over 30 years. He said he's really not up to snuff on all the details, but he made this interesting comment - the Catholic Church is also against capital punishment, but you probably won't see too many bishops campaigning against policies or even candidates that support capital punishment.

The Catholic church is also against lying but to lump all offenses into one pot... and suggest that they all merit the same response is shallow.

Death penalty and Abortion are both contrary to Catholic teaching but they are not accepted as equal offenses.

The viewpoint against abortion and the death penalty are the same. The Catholic Church believes in the sanctity of all life, not just for the unborn....and they extend that to other conditions, including working conditions, wages, etc.. Read the Gospels sometime and see what Jesus spend most of his message on...social justice.

What a liberal!!

Don't hate 'em for it. It was long before the invention of SUV's with the Christian fish symbols attached on the back end.

[Danno 1,228]

I'm surprised that some of you are surprised.

How else would you expect the catholic Church to respond to an issue they see as GOV funded killing of unborn babies?

My how we applaud the Church when their Priest marched for civil rights or any of the other issues the Church has waded into but if they object to this one provision of this reform bill.... a provision which would FORCE all tax payers to fund abortion.. you think they should shut-up and sit-down.

Every Church and indeed any group has an obligation to speak out and take a stand against Government acts which are contrary to core values of it's group. (for or against)

That The church did not rail against private insurance companies is clearly something different all together as no one is forced to join nor support them in the unavoidable way we will, with this Bill.

IF the Church can't use the Parish to address the issue of "life", they best close up shop and call it quits.

Seriously, I doubt they are interrupting the Mass its self to give this information... or perhaps you don't know what the mass even is?

They are probably putting a paper in the Church bulletin

Or mentioning it in another part of the service.

The outrage is because, what the church is doing goes against everything that is Christlike. Jesus never said anything about abortions, however he wandered from village to village healing the sick. Providing healthcare for all is one of the basic elements of Christianity. In fact, when a missionary goes to a rural community, one of the first things they do is to build a school and a free clinic to help the needy. So when the church does something un-christlike in the name of Christ, there is going to be plenty of outrage!

Don't be silly, Jesus never spoke against Child porn either... or even sex with kids... does that imply it's "okay"?

From your response I can see you have no idea (at all) of the Good work the Catholic Church has done and is doing in these very areas (and many others) you mentioned... please educate yourself first before condemning others.

Perhaps you missed this quote from the OP.

<<<QUOTE

A little over 100 million Americans are treated through Catholic hospitals and health centers. There are 624 Catholic hospitals in America. Also, 11 of the nation’s 40 largest health care systems are Catholic, such as Ascension Health, Catholic Health Initatives and Trinity Health.>>>

I never denied that the Catholic church did any charity work, nor did I condemn them. It is just silly to deny healthcare to all because it may facilitate abortion for a few. It would be more Christlike to provide healthcare to all, than to police people around.

You suggested the Catholics should be more concerned with offering Healthcare.... when in fact they are one of the largest private providers in the country.

Now you are following up by suggesting that the Catholic Church should support any plan... even at the cost of innocent lives....

And what is the emergency? because this plan will allow those middle income people to get the low-cost heath coverage they desire. (The poor are already covered)

That might seem like a good trade off to you but apparently, not to the Catholic Church, they feel the plan can be better so why would you expect them to respond in any other way?

Bottom line, this is just "one poorly crafted Bill" it is not a -do or die thing here, I'm sure the Healthcare goal can be reached without tangling it all up in the AbORTION issue.... can't it?

[Scott & Lai 12]

I'm surprised that some of you are surprised.

How else would you expect the catholic Church to respond to an issue they see as GOV funded killing of unborn babies?

My how we applaud the Church when their Priest marched for civil rights or any of the other issues the Church has waded into but if they object to this one provision of this reform bill.... a provision which would FORCE all tax payers to fund abortion.. you think they should shut-up and sit-down.

Every Church and indeed any group has an obligation to speak out and take a stand against Government acts which are contrary to core values of it's group. (for or against)

That The church did not rail against private insurance companies is clearly something different all together as no one is forced to join nor support them in the unavoidable way we will, with this Bill.

IF the Church can't use the Parish to address the issue of "life", they best close up shop and call it quits.

Seriously, I doubt they are interrupting the Mass its self to give this information... or perhaps you don't know what the mass even is?

They are probably putting a paper in the Church bulletin

Or mentioning it in another part of the service.

The outrage is because, what the church is doing goes against everything that is Christlike. Jesus never said anything about abortions, however he wandered from village to village healing the sick. Providing healthcare for all is one of the basic elements of Christianity. In fact, when a missionary goes to a rural community, one of the first things they do is to build a school and a free clinic to help the needy. So when the church does something un-christlike in the name of Christ, there is going to be plenty of outrage!

Preaching against abortion is un-Christlike? So would that mean being for abortion is Christlike?

I recently spoke with my Dad over this - he's been an ordained Catholic Deacon for over 30 years. He said he's really not up to snuff on all the details, but he made this interesting comment - the Catholic Church is also against capital punishment, but you probably won't see too many bishops campaigning against policies or even candidates that support capital punishment.

The Catholic church is also against lying but to lump all offenses into one pot... and suggest that they all merit the same response is shallow.

Death penalty and Abortion are both contrary to Catholic teaching but they are not accepted as equal offenses.

The viewpoint against abortion and the death penalty are the same. The Catholic Church believes in the sanctity of all life, not just for the unborn....and they extend that to other conditions, including working conditions, wages, etc.. Read the Gospels sometime and see what Jesus spend most of his message on...social justice.

What a liberal!!

Don't hate 'em for it. It was long before the invention of SUV's with the Christian fish symbols attached on the back end.

The difference is, Christ preached willingly giving what we have to help those in need, not taking what others have against their will and giving it away. i.e., charity, not wealth-redistribution.

Edited November 4, 2009 by Scott & Lai

[NickD 203]

In many ways, the Church is no different than working for the government, if you can't do a technical task, government will make a supervisor for you. If a priest can't hack managing a parish, will make a bishop out of him.

If approaching a bishop, last thing you want to do is to remove your shoes and socks and ask him to wash your feet, let's leave Jesus Christ out of this discussion. What you do do is bow and kiss his ring and treat him like he is God almighty. Did have conscientious priest that stated he is required to pass this information out by the bishop, in this respect, the Catholic Church is no different than our corporations or our military, rank has it's privileges. Word catholic means universal, hardly the word to use when comparing the same church in different countries, found the Catholic Church in Colombia to be extremely corrupt that certainly added to my distaste.

Living in a town with a population of 19,000 we have over 60 churches listed in the yellow pages. What they all have in common, each one is the only one that offers salvation for your soul. Somebody is lying, maybe they all are. One thing for sure, the competition is stiff, and may the most beautiful elaborate church win. But those are the ones that demand the most money from you.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The viewpoint against abortion and the death penalty are the same. The Catholic Church believes in the sanctity of all life, not just for the unborn....and they extend that to other conditions, including working conditions, wages, etc.. Read the Gospels sometime and see what Jesus spend most of his message on...social justice.

What a liberal!!

Don't hate 'em for it. It was long before the invention of SUV's with the Christian fish symbols attached on the back end.

The difference is, Christ preached willingly giving what we have to help those in need, not taking what others have against their will and giving it away. i.e., charity, not wealth-redistribution.

So forcing morality via government policy is not what Christ had in mind? Scott, we have laws against certain behaviors (stealing, rape, murder), what is the difference between those laws and laws which help out the poor? I know the John Galt answer - do no harm to others....but that's like quoting Ayn Rand over Jesus. Jesus was very clear about his views on social justice and never said anything like - but King Herod is not responsible for carrying out any moral responsibilities.

Matthew 22:21 - it is good and appropriate to submit to the state when asked, that spiritual demands supersede earthly demands but do not abolish them, or that the demands of the state are non-negotiable.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Jesus sounds like a statist.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Jesus sounds like a statist.

Jesus and John Galt would get into a fist fight if they ever bumped into each other.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

omg Steve, ####### the nickname