RE: My Wife's Appointment in a Few Weeks in Guangzhou...

[pushbrk 12,883]

IF my Mom's data on the I-134 (she is willing to sign as a co-sponsor) meets and/or exceeds their requirements, will this be enough to offset how I look on paper right now at this moment?

Yes.

if the K3 Visa is issued, I am assuming that a one-way plane ticket for my wife is okay? I realize that on a K-1 Visa, a R/T airline ticket would be required...

Why would either require a RT ticket? My K-1 girls are getting a one way ticket. They won't be going back to China for a while. It doesn't save us money so why get it?

Right, one-way tickets are fine for all K visas.

[justashooter 430]

justashooter,

This is the first I have heard of the family tree.

Again, my biggest concern is how much of a determining factor (relating to the I-134) my present job status and financial state will be in my wife being issued a K3 Visa? I did land a great sales job (commission) TODAY with unlimited potential but with her interview less than two weeks ago, "in their eyes," it (potential earnings) probably means diddly-jack, yes? IF my Mom's data on the I-134 (she is willing to sign as a co-sponsor) meets and/or exceeds their requirements, will this be enough to offset how I look on paper right now at this moment?

Mark in Arizona

mark, i didn't mean that you had to go all the way back to the revolution...

you just need to go back one generation and include your existing family and other people she is likely to interact with. this is especially true of any children you might have, and will show the VO that she is aware of the situation and is getting more info than a sham marriage would involve. it is also respectful to her.

your income concern is valid. your tax forms as required and year to date pay stubs will be examined, so she should have updated copies of recent paystubs. your co-sponsor cannot hurt the pleading, so include it if it is not very clear that you make more than the minimum requirement.

to some guys this seems like a lot of info to give a woman, but if they aren't comfortable with this kind of disclosure they shouldn't be getting married. best of luck in your process. anythign else we can do, just ask.

[pushbrk 12,883]

justashooter,

This is the first I have heard of the family tree.

Again, my biggest concern is how much of a determining factor (relating to the I-134) my present job status and financial state will be in my wife being issued a K3 Visa? I did land a great sales job (commission) TODAY with unlimited potential but with her interview less than two weeks ago, "in their eyes," it (potential earnings) probably means diddly-jack, yes? IF my Mom's data on the I-134 (she is willing to sign as a co-sponsor) meets and/or exceeds their requirements, will this be enough to offset how I look on paper right now at this moment?

Mark in Arizona

mark, i didn't mean that you had to go all the way back to the revolution...

you just need to go back one generation and include your existing family and other people she is likely to interact with. this is especially true of any children you might have, and will show the VO that she is aware of the situation and is getting more info than a sham marriage would involve. it is also respectful to her.

your income concern is valid. your tax forms as required and year to date pay stubs will be examined, so she should have updated copies of recent paystubs. your co-sponsor cannot hurt the pleading, so include it if it is not very clear that you make more than the minimum requirement.

to some guys this seems like a lot of info to give a woman, but if they aren't comfortable with this kind of disclosure they shouldn't be getting married. best of luck in your process. anythign else we can do, just ask.

When the fiance or spouse of any gender doesn't have this kind of information, it increases the potential for a Consular officer to conclude the relationship is a sham. It would be a shame to have such a result as a result of keeping such basic information from the fiance(e) or spouse.

[MrZonaCat 0]

justashooter,

This is the first I have heard of the family tree.

Again, my biggest concern is how much of a determining factor (relating to the I-134) my present job status and financial state will be in my wife being issued a K3 Visa? I did land a great sales job (commission) TODAY with unlimited potential but with her interview less than two weeks ago, "in their eyes," it (potential earnings) probably means diddly-jack, yes? IF my Mom's data on the I-134 (she is willing to sign as a co-sponsor) meets and/or exceeds their requirements, will this be enough to offset how I look on paper right now at this moment?

Mark in Arizona

mark, i didn't mean that you had to go all the way back to the revolution...

you just need to go back one generation and include your existing family and other people she is likely to interact with. this is especially true of any children you might have, and will show the VO that she is aware of the situation and is getting more info than a sham marriage would involve. it is also respectful to her.

your income concern is valid. your tax forms as required and year to date pay stubs will be examined, so she should have updated copies of recent paystubs. your co-sponsor cannot hurt the pleading, so include it if it is not very clear that you make more than the minimum requirement.

to some guys this seems like a lot of info to give a woman, but if they aren't comfortable with this kind of disclosure they shouldn't be getting married. best of luck in your process. anythign else we can do, just ask.

When the fiance or spouse of any gender doesn't have this kind of information, it increases the potential for a Consular officer to conclude the relationship is a sham. It would be a shame to have such a result as a result of keeping such basic information from the fiance(e) or spouse.

Of course, I agree with both of you. However, in my case, my wife knows everything about my financial situation prior to our getting married last year. Of course. But what seems so callous and somewhat flawed about the entire system in my opinion, is that an outside entity can make a judgment that affects an entire married couple's future destiny solely by looking at some kind of exact income requirement on a piece of paper. I mean for example, I live in a house that is paid for and I have zero rent or mortgage payment In my eyes, this should count for something? I mean what if a guy made a dollar over the minimum income requirement and his rent was like a third of his income? He would be way worse off. The only reason I had a not-so-ideal job upon my return from China was the job market here in Arizona was bleak. At the time, any job seemed better than no job, so I took it. But after several months, I met a few co-workers that had worked for this company for over two years (and they had an impressive military background as well) and they never even got so much as one cost of living raise. So this is why in early September, I resigned. Admittedly, the timing to resign was not ideal. Anyway, I don't have a problem ith gathering pay stubs and my wife knows what my pay was for that job, but it seems only fair that having no rent or mortgage should count for something in their eyes. Look at Nicolas Cage (the actor) and the NBA basketball player, Antoine Walker. They are both teetering on bankruptcy despite both making well over seven-figure incomes. It seems like low overhead and effective money management aren't even factored into the I-134 paperwork equation.

I have always thought of soul-mates and "real marriages" to be based on compatibility, acceptance, affinity and true love not the current balance of a bank account. In fact, in my observation, marriages based solely on what is in a bank account tend to be more likely to be of the "sham variety."

Currently, I am trying to sell all rights to a utility patent (that still has some value) as well... if this will help our cause. In the interim, all I can hope for is a that good ol' Mom agreeing to be a co-sponsor will be enough to help my wife next week. I am very excited about my new sales job, but sadly, in their eyes, this probably does not count for much.

All I can do is hope for the best and gather all the paperwork I can.

Sometimes, I am painfully reminded of how a paperwork snafu can prove costly. In 2002, I was a performer in an Australian festival. The festival's entertainment visas were delayed by two days so I had no choice but to enter on a tourist visa. Big mistake. I had to pay like $135.00 (Aussie dollars) out of my own pocket (the entertainment visas were paid for by the festival) despite having plenty of documentation from the festival organizers to show the Government official. Finally, in the end, on the penultimate day, I was given a refund but the check for $135.00 from the Aussie government said NOT NEGOTIABLE. Even though I went to the bank it was drawn from, they refused. They said I could deposit it and open an account, but I had just one day until my departure after being in Australia for three months. Back home, here in Arizona, the Australian government check was worthless, so I ended up being taken for $135.00. The craziest thing! A check from the Australian government wasn't worth a penny. I was burned on a technicality that was not only not my fault, it was beyond my control.

Anyway, sorry for mutating off topic, but this paperwork preparation is draining. I mean I have well over 2,500 pages of Instant Message chats to go through and pull out excerpts that can serve as a representative sample. I don't even know if I am allowed to reformat and shrink the font? I have 160 pages of phone call logs too. But then again, I guess I am not the only one on here who has felt as though they are literally drowning in extraneous paperwork.

Besides, Abstract/Random, right-brain dominant brain types like myself have never been known to excel at paperwork organization. This is why the best accountants are usually of Concrete/Sequential, left-brain dominant variety.

Thanks again to all. Peace. Cheers.

Mark in Arizona

[justashooter 430]

hey mark,

the "sham" chinese marriages push and i are talking about are those arranged for immigration purposes only, often by chinese west coast brokers. typically, a low income person is pulled off the street and sent on the cheap to beijing to meet the "love of their life", who they have no intention of becoming involved with. after a quick photo or two they return to cali and get $5,000-$10,000 to sign some forms, and a chinese gets a visa interview. in these cases the putative immigrant knows little about the personal life of the "petitioner", and is often correctly weeded out by the VO.

you don't want your case to look anything like this, because guangzhou is tough to get past. they are white slipping by the bushel, and should be, as GUZ is rife with fraudulent petitions. piles of chat logs and pages of phone bills have less weight than an applicant's genuine knowledge of the petitioner's life. pictures of you two together (with her family is even better), hotel bills in your name at china destinations, evidence that she is taking english lessons, or that you are taking chinese, pictures with her and her mother in her intended wedding dress (have her get one ther, much cheaper), pictures of you with your family, these things are useful.

[pushbrk 12,883]

hey mark,

the "sham" chinese marriages push and i are talking about are those arranged for immigration purposes only, often by chinese west coast brokers. typically, a low income person is pulled off the street and sent on the cheap to beijing to meet the "love of their life", who they have no intention of becoming involved with. after a quick photo or two they return to cali and get $5,000-$10,000 to sign some forms, and a chinese gets a visa interview. in these cases the putative immigrant knows little about the personal life of the "petitioner", and is often correctly weeded out by the VO.

you don't want your case to look anything like this, because guangzhou is tough to get past. they are white slipping by the bushel, and should be, as GUZ is rife with fraudulent petitions. piles of chat logs and pages of phone bills have less weight than an applicant's genuine knowledge of the petitioner's life. pictures of you two together (with her family is even better), hotel bills in your name at china destinations, evidence that she is taking english lessons, or that you are taking chinese, pictures with her and her mother in her intended wedding dress (have her get one ther, much cheaper), pictures of you with your family, these things are useful.

Absolutely correct. I would add that if the fiance is from Fujian province, they'll receive even more scrutiny as Fujian is China's Nigeria when it comes to fraud.

Qualifying financially is about laws in place to protect the US taxpayer. Judgments about bona fides are about weeding out fraud. Shooter mentions one kind of fraud but there are many. Perhaps more frequently, the intending immigrant is scamming the unsuspecting petitioner, even sometimes going so far as to divorce their spouse with the intention of both running similar scams so they can eventually reunite in the USA.

It's important to understand that the practical Chinese woman more often decides to "bestow" her love on a man and "fall in love" perhaps later or perhaps not. We fools usually can't tell the difference. The point is, often the man is deeply in love when the woman has only decided he's good enough for her to give her love, even in the most legitimate of cases. I think most honest American men in successful marriages with Chinese women will at least admit to themselves that it took some time after their own love bloomed for their woman to have similar "feelings" even though her behavior indicated they were at the same romantic level. It's important to learn and remember the differences in culture and particularly important not to confuse ardor with love.

[Eric & Jin 10]

I would add that if the fiance is from Fujian province, they'll receive even more scrutiny as Fujian is China's Nigeria when it comes to fraud.

Based upon my personal experiences, this belief is much more of an urban myth than reality.

My wife is from Fujian province and prior to her interview I had read many similar types of warnings on this and other boards which in turn got both of us really worried. So before the interview I attended an ACH session and asked the VO specifically about whether or not people from Fujian province receive any greater scrutiny during the visa process than people who are from other provinces. He said no and was very forthcoming in expalining it further to me.

He said that being from Fujian province alone does not send up any warning flags to them. What he did say though is that there are certain 'watch' areas within Fujian province that if an applicant is from one of these areas and certain other factors exist then this would possibly throw up a warning flag for them. He mentioned two such contributing factors which would cause a warning flag and possibly bring on more questions/digging in the interview. Those two factors that he mentioned were: 1. Applicant does not speak English and 2. Petitioner has only made 1 trip to China. He would not name the 'watch' areas within Fujian Province which are of some concern to them but he did tell me that Xiamen, which is where my wife is from, is not one of those areas. He also said that there are just as many 'watch' areas within other provinces other than Fujian that could trigger a warning flag when coupled with other circumstances - so this is by no means limited to Fujian province.

After my talk with the VO coupled with the fact that my wife only had a quick 5 minute interview before getting approved leads me to believe that there is no greater risk of scrutiny if your fiancée/wife is from Fujian province than there is if she is from any other province. Bottom line is focus & prepare to make sure that you have a solid case and not worry about what province that you fiancée/wife may be from.

[pushbrk 12,883]

I would add that if the fiance is from Fujian province, they'll receive even more scrutiny as Fujian is China's Nigeria when it comes to fraud.

Based upon my personal experiences, this belief is much more of an urban myth than reality.

My wife is from Fujian province and prior to her interview I had read many similar types of warnings on this and other boards which in turn got both of us really worried. So before the interview I attended an ACH session and asked the VO specifically about whether or not people from Fujian province receive any greater scrutiny during the visa process than people who are from other provinces. He said no and was very forthcoming in expalining it further to me.

He said that being from Fujian province alone does not send up any warning flags to them. What he did say though is that there are certain 'watch' areas within Fujian province that if an applicant is from one of these areas and certain other factors exist then this would possibly throw up a warning flag for them. He mentioned two such contributing factors which would cause a warning flag and possibly bring on more questions/digging in the interview. Those two factors that he mentioned were: 1. Applicant does not speak English and 2. Petitioner has only made 1 trip to China. He would not name the 'watch' areas within Fujian Province which are of some concern to them but he did tell me that Xiamen, which is where my wife is from, is not one of those areas. He also said that there are just as many 'watch' areas within other provinces other than Fujian that could trigger a warning flag when coupled with other circumstances - so this is by no means limited to Fujian province.

After my talk with the VO coupled with the fact that my wife only had a quick 5 minute interview before getting approved leads me to believe that there is no greater risk of scrutiny if your fiancée/wife is from Fujian province than there is if she is from any other province. Bottom line is focus & prepare to make sure that you have a solid case and not worry about what province that you fiancée/wife may be from.

That's good information and I take the statement of the Consular officer at face value. However, I would disagree with your analysis of probabilties based on those statements. Fujian is a small province with multiple watch areas. While other provinces (perhaps all but perhaps not) also have watch areas, the population and number of watch areas could vary greatly. Without knowing the demographics coupled with the size and number of watch areas, one cannot reach a reliable conclusion about whther there's greater risk of scrutiny from Fujian or not. I would still conclude that the probability of extra scrutiny is higher for Fujian but that doesn't say anything about a specific case. The point is to do the very best job of documentation and interview preparation possible to beat any "odds" that may apply.

It's good to know some more detail on the issue though. As for your own wife's interview experience, we learn nothing about probabilities but we DO learn she was most likely well prepared for the interview and all else was in order. Also, you do get brownie points as notes to the file for attending ACH.

[MrZonaCat 0]

I would add that if the fiance is from Fujian province, they'll receive even more scrutiny as Fujian is China's Nigeria when it comes to fraud.

He mentioned two such contributing factors which would cause a warning flag and possibly bring on more questions/digging in the interview. Those two factors that he mentioned were: 1. Applicant does not speak English and 2. Petitioner has only made 1 trip to China.

In theory, I understand. These officials have to look at a seemingly endless plethora of cases and no-doubt, many of them have common denominators that signal "red flags" and therefore, might justifiably, merit extra scrutiny in their eyes.

But on the other hand, it is wrong to make a broad judgment (that affects one couples life destiny) based on what they often deem to be a "red flag." Like anything else in the world, there are always exceptions that deserve the benefit of a doubt.

Since Year 2000, I have been fortunate to somehow scrape, save and sacrifice my way to 5 overseas holidays including Australia, Thailand and China. When I say sacrifice, I do not just mean financial. Here in the USA (or at least Arizona) it is NOT easy to get three weeks or a month off to travel. Most employers here (sans school teachers of course) usually give only one or two weeks off. On one of the occasions, I had to quit a job to take a one-month overseas holiday.

I guess that the fact that I have only been to China one time (since I have known my wife, I went on a vacation once before, before I knew her) makes them see our case with extra scrutiny.

I am very adept at spotting "red flags" myself. I have chatted with other women from other countries (incl., Belarus and Filipina women) and I can see, very quickly, certain signs that show "their true motives." I shan't expound on them here for that is not only off-topic, it could very well be long enough to write an entire book. But for the sake of example, here are two examples.

A. An over-abundance of "online friends. While they are chatting with you, they are also having multiple chats with other guys. This could mean they are players and have many prospects (would-be suitors) and they are simply holding out for the "best deal."

B. Too quick and eager to make travel arrangements. ha ha... there was one Russian woman, who I never even had one phone chat or Instant Message chat and after a week of emails she already was talking about airfares and visa fees. This was a scammer in the most obvious form. And I wouldn't be surprised if she a guy! (Anyone can borrow a pic to use for dishonest purposes)

My wife , unlike many others, clearly puts her family first and in fact, she never wanted or considered the notion of ever coming to America. It wasn't until we got to know each other and I planted a passionate cavalcade of sincere and noble family seeds that she even considered leaving her family and her province that she never considered leaving before. Prior to meeting her, I had a few chats with much younger girls, even strikingly beautiful girls in their early 20s and as soon as I spotted an over-eagerness to migrate here, my suspicions were raised, at least to some extent. My wife is 36 and is for real. It took an enormous leap of faith for me to make the decision to marry her after just a month in China. But every single second of every moment, I saw first hand that her kindness and inherently soulful nature was 100% organic and not of the feigned, synthetic variety. In short, there was nary one bad, red flag moment.

Anyway, for me, going back to China yet again was simply not an option. I was very fortunate to somehow find a way to get to China for a month last year. Destiny was on my side.

Speaking of fate and destiny... I have a better feeling about our chances. Yesterday, as I went through every phone call on my call log, I came across a few numbers not to my wife. I called them. Two of them were to a floral delivery shop to buy her roses for her birthday and for Valentine's Day. This gave me the idea to go into my old emails and look for the confirmations and flower messages (very romantic and "mushy" ) and I printed them out as well. I trust that the powers-that-be in Guangzhou can spot a fake (marriage) when they see one. But even moreso, I trust that these experts can also spot two soul mates in love when they see it too. It is their profession. It is what they do. I can only hope so anyway!

Mark in Arizona

[pushbrk 12,883]

I would add that if the fiance is from Fujian province, they'll receive even more scrutiny as Fujian is China's Nigeria when it comes to fraud.

He mentioned two such contributing factors which would cause a warning flag and possibly bring on more questions/digging in the interview. Those two factors that he mentioned were: 1. Applicant does not speak English and 2. Petitioner has only made 1 trip to China.

In theory, I understand. These officials have to look at a seemingly endless plethora of cases and no-doubt, many of them have common denominators that signal "red flags" and therefore, might justifiably, merit extra scrutiny in their eyes.

But on the other hand, it is wrong to make a broad judgment (that affects one couples life destiny) based on what they often deem to be a "red flag." Like anything else in the world, there are always exceptions that deserve the benefit of a doubt.

Since Year 2000, I have been fortunate to somehow scrape, save and sacrifice my way to 5 overseas holidays including Australia, Thailand and China. When I say sacrifice, I do not just mean financial. Here in the USA (or at least Arizona) it is NOT easy to get three weeks or a month off to travel. Most employers here (sans school teachers of course) usually give only one or two weeks off. On one of the occasions, I had to quit a job to take a one-month overseas holiday.

I guess that the fact that I have only been to China one time (since I have known my wife, I went on a vacation once before, before I knew her) makes them see our case with extra scrutiny.

I am very adept at spotting "red flags" myself. I have chatted with other women from other countries (incl., Belarus and Filipina women) and I can see, very quickly, certain signs that show "their true motives." I shan't expound on them here for that is not only off-topic, it could very well be long enough to write an entire book. But for the sake of example, here are two examples.

A. An over-abundance of "online friends. While they are chatting with you, they are also having multiple chats with other guys. This could mean they are players and have many prospects (would-be suitors) and they are simply holding out for the "best deal."

B. Too quick and eager to make travel arrangements. ha ha... there was one Russian woman, who I never even had one phone chat or Instant Message chat and after a week of emails she already was talking about airfares and visa fees. This was a scammer in the most obvious form. And I wouldn't be surprised if she a guy! (Anyone can borrow a pic to use for dishonest purposes)

My wife , unlike many others, clearly puts her family first and in fact, she never wanted or considered the notion of ever coming to America. It wasn't until we got to know each other and I planted a passionate cavalcade of sincere and noble family seeds that she even considered leaving her family and her province that she never considered leaving before. Prior to meeting her, I had a few chats with much younger girls, even strikingly beautiful girls in their early 20s and as soon as I spotted an over-eagerness to migrate here, my suspicions were raised, at least to some extent. My wife is 36 and is for real. It took an enormous leap of faith for me to make the decision to marry her after just a month in China. But every single second of every moment, I saw first hand that her kindness and inherently soulful nature was 100% organic and not of the feigned, synthetic variety. In short, there was nary one bad, red flag moment.

Anyway, for me, going back to China yet again was simply not an option. I was very fortunate to somehow find a way to get to China for a month last year. Destiny was on my side.

Speaking of fate and destiny... I have a better feeling about our chances. Yesterday, as I went through every phone call on my call log, I came across a few numbers not to my wife. I called them. Two of them were to a floral delivery shop to buy her roses for her birthday and for Valentine's Day. This gave me the idea to go into my old emails and look for the confirmations and flower messages (very romantic and "mushy" ) and I printed them out as well. I trust that the powers-that-be in Guangzhou can spot a fake (marriage) when they see one. But even moreso, I trust that these experts can also spot two soul mates in love when they see it too. It is their profession. It is what they do. I can only hope so anyway!

Mark in Arizona

A single red flag does not a totality of circumstance make. I've seen lots of successful visa cases from China with only one visit. Some of them were back when it was taking 18 to 24 months for a CR1.

[Darnell 8,478]

wei - how'd the interview go today? any news?

Warmest Regards..