The biggest threat to America today is that people have become disheartened

[AlHayatZween 2]

Curving in massive science & math classes is one thing, especially if the highest grade is low because of the difficulty of subject matter and/or the professor...

But having administration dictate that the median grade must be a B in low-level writing courses and English electives is not helping anyone...imho

In Engineering, many schools employ foreign Ph.Ds holder. Now, the problem is that their English is poor. I remembered there was a class called Random Signals where we have to use probabilities to analyze noise in signal waveforms. That class if taught by a foreign PH.D holder, and the book is weak at explaining things, it is almost the toughest subject encounter in the School of Engineering. Random Signals are taught to Electrical Engineering majors, but, other majors may take them as an elective. I took this class. It's not just a simple statistics class. Topics covered deterministic signals, non-deterministic signals, Gaussian Distribution (easy depending on how you look at it), correlation (triple integration), etc...Learning how to compute the numbers is easy. Learning how to interpret engineering word problems into computing numbers is a different story.

But, through experience I know in many science and engineering majors, it can't be help no matter where you're from that sometimes grade inflation is a must.

I agree. Low expectations for kids is bad. Give the kid a challenge.

The biggest threat is that no one cares (or will admit) that America is dumbing down its kids.

Yes, but it is even worse than i had previously thought.

Now i am learning firsthand about grade inflation in colleges...

Edited November 2, 2009 by AlHayatZween

[mawilson 2,133]

Americans are starting to think the problems we are facing cannot be solved.

i can relate to this...

but at the same time, systemic changes need to made... i don't see them (gov, congress, business) making them. they are tapdancing...

I agree. America's future looks bleak indeed. The American dream has all but vanished.

[SMR 368]

Curving in massive science & math classes is one thing, especially if the highest grade is low because of the difficulty of subject matter and/or the professor...

But having administration dictate that the median grade must be a B in low-level writing courses and English electives is not helping anyone...imho

In Engineering, many schools employ foreign Ph.Ds holder. Now, the problem is that their English is poor. I remembered there was a class called Random Signals where we have to use probabilities to analyze noise in signal waveforms. That class if taught by a foreign PH.D holder, and the book is weak at explaining things, it is almost the toughest subject encounter in the School of Engineering. Random Signals are taught to Electrical Engineering majors, but, other majors may take them as an elective. I took this class. It's not just a simple statistics class. Topics covered deterministic signals, non-deterministic signals, Gaussian Distribution (easy depending on how you look at it), correlation (triple integration), etc...Learning how to compute the numbers is easy. Learning how to interpret engineering word problems into computing numbers is a different story.

But, through experience I know in many science and engineering majors, it can't be help no matter where you're from that sometimes grade inflation is a must.

I agree. Low expectations for kids is bad. Give the kid a challenge.

The biggest threat is that no one cares (or will admit) that America is dumbing down its kids.

Yes, but it is even worse than i had previously thought.

Now i am learning firsthand about grade inflation in colleges...

Well, low level courses are forced to have a low mean in some departments because those courses have to differentiate between students to determine who gets into which programs and who gets which scholarships, etc. If the mean is high, everyone can get an A. If you force the mean to be a "B", then there will probably be some A's, B's, and C's, with some D's, and F's mixed in for good measure.

I agree that it might not be necessary in an English department, but that's only because undergraduate English majors have nothing to compete for. Everyone can get an A when and A doesn't mean anything. When the grades in a chemistry class determine who gets into medical school, prestigious engineering programs, or a plush fellowship, then you need to have a spread of scores.

Departments dictating that the professor have a B- mean is an effective, although perhaps inelegant way of forcing the professor to rank the students instead of just saying that they are all "good."

[AlHayatZween 2]

Well, low level courses are forced to have a low mean in some departments because those courses have to differentiate between students to determine who gets into which programs and who gets which scholarships, etc. If the mean is high, everyone can get an A. If you force the mean to be a "B", then there will probably be some A's, B's, and C's, with some D's, and F's mixed in for good measure.

I agree that it might not be necessary in an English department, but that's only because undergraduate English majors have nothing to compete for. Everyone can get an A when and A doesn't mean anything. When the grades in a chemistry class determine who gets into medical school, prestigious engineering programs, or a plush fellowship, then you need to have a spread of scores.

Departments dictating that the professor have a B- mean is an effective, although perhaps inelegant way of forcing the professor to rank the students instead of just saying that they are all "good."

i would disagree because there are students who are legitimately earning high scores (high As) in English classes. If they are earning the grades, why should we curve the others just because they are accustomed to getting As in either easier English classes or in high school. While it might not be chemistry or medicine, i would argue that literacy and the ability to write well is (or at least, was) very important. Most English majors might not be going to Med School, but there are still prestigious law programs, international & public affairs, as well as plush fellowships to compete for...

It's disturbing to me when a student comes to my office with a B on his/her paper saying they have a 4.0 and have never received lower than an A before... but in the meantime, their writing skills are weak. There critical analysis is weak. In this instance, why should said-student get the same grade as the students who have mastered these skills? Sure, English & writing might not be rocket science, but literacy is still a necessity. We shouldn't be accepting mediocre work and rewarding students for it. It dumbs down everyone in the long run.

(Again, math & science would fall on a different scale depending on the university, etc...)