Onlookers laugh during teen girl's gang rape

[Danno 1,228]

Booyah!

You are wasting your time trying to pull -heads out of the sand.

No matter the evidence, these few VJer's will go round and round with there repetitive replies.

For a simple example, you posted:

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/fugitives/vc/mur.../vc_murders.htm

It's stunning to see consistency within the spots on that list.

That anyone can seriously question the radical changes taking place.... in many different ways, is for me, the most alarming part of it all.

One of the most glaring problems we have is, Border control.

Right now, rather than tackle our immigration problem.... a problem which has attracted many of the worst elements to this country.... to some, the answer is to do "more of the same".

It actually stunning, the vast majority of Hispanics don't object to our open-door policy as they see their good names and reputation being dirtied by the daily police blotter.

Our immigration habit has become a policy which basically is a magnet to both the best... and worst of our neighbors to the south.... with no filter at all on, who waltzes in here.

When people cannot even agree on something as elementary as "border control".... how could we possibly address far more complicated social problems?

They say in history "people who are alive at the beginning and ending of great things, rarely grasp the importance of the moment." until it is past.

[HAL 9000 96]

huh?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think Danno just tried to do a bait and switch.

[Sandrila 1]

The major problem with our teens is that parents have become ineffective for many reasons. The governments choose to hobble parents from actively disciplining their child/ren, by enforcing the "no smacking" rules to prevent physical abuse. How many children can be effectively disciplined with words? Has that EVER worked? Many parents are intimidated by their own kids these days. Menaced for pocket money that is unearned and undeserved, simply so it can be spent on the next "big thing" and making sure they have parity with their friends.

Drugs are a growing problem, but they are merely a symptom of society's excesses. When one has everything available, what's left to want except the illegal and immoral? Before you bash me as homophobic, isn't the reason that powerful figures in society turned to boys is because they could easily procure the girls and need stronger titillation? There's a difference between someone whose genuine mutual attraction is to their own sex and someone who is "experimenting" with a vulnerable victim.

Celebrity culture has effectively disposed of morals in society. We see them barely clothed, behaving badly and expect kids not to emulate their icons. Some hope of that. Drugs, gangsta-rap, shootings have existed for decades, but when the pop stars and celebrities glamorise them without the heavy hand of a morally upright parent to balance the logic behind it, we're going to experience depravity in our culture.

For those who are saying it's a new phenomenon, look back through civilisation. It's not a new problem, it's simply on a much larger scale now that the global population has skyrocketed and the publicity is ever present with the advent of instant 24/7 news. How much GOOD news is ever shown, versus the dramatic headline grabbing disasters and disgusting behaviour?

Still, societal values change every 20 years or so. We can but hope that someone makes these Sports, Hollywood and Pop icons realise they're nothing more than today's fad and their value to society is negligible if they are contributing negatively to it. Instead of letting the lawmakers ease their path through the criminal prosecutions, castigate them openly and publicly to demonise their behaviour and make sure they are seen to be paying the (deserved) price for the low moral standards they introduce.

Violent movies, violent video games, no facing up to the dirty side of death and it's emotional consequences. Children have become so accustomed to violence that it ceases to make them draw clear moral boundaries. When an action has no consequence, how can any lesson be learned?

I have highlighted the statements with which I full heartedly agree and based on this i can add that I have 2 teenage children right now and am going thru similiar issues with them as far as them thinking they are "above" the discipline and authority of their parents...and now the law. The WORST is when you, as parent, try to do the right thing but as you have so thoroughly explained there is too much meddling and interference, from plenty of outide sources, when it comes to how we raise our children in our homes thus we are being undermined.

[Sandrila 1]

The major problem with our teens is that parents have become ineffective for many reasons. The governments choose to hobble parents from actively disciplining their child/ren, by enforcing the "no smacking" rules to prevent physical abuse. How many children can be effectively disciplined with words? Has that EVER worked? Many parents are intimidated by their own kids these days. Menaced for pocket money that is unearned and undeserved, simply so it can be spent on the next "big thing" and making sure they have parity with their friends.

Drugs are a growing problem, but they are merely a symptom of society's excesses. When one has everything available, what's left to want except the illegal and immoral? Before you bash me as homophobic, isn't the reason that powerful figures in society turned to boys is because they could easily procure the girls and need stronger titillation? There's a difference between someone whose genuine mutual attraction is to their own sex and someone who is "experimenting" with a vulnerable victim.

Celebrity culture has effectively disposed of morals in society. We see them barely clothed, behaving badly and expect kids not to emulate their icons. Some hope of that. Drugs, gangsta-rap, shootings have existed for decades, but when the pop stars and celebrities glamorise them without the heavy hand of a morally upright parent to balance the logic behind it, we're going to experience depravity in our culture.

For those who are saying it's a new phenomenon, look back through civilisation. It's not a new problem, it's simply on a much larger scale now that the global population has skyrocketed and the publicity is ever present with the advent of instant 24/7 news. How much GOOD news is ever shown, versus the dramatic headline grabbing disasters and disgusting behaviour?

Still, societal values change every 20 years or so. We can but hope that someone makes these Sports, Hollywood and Pop icons realise they're nothing more than today's fad and their value to society is negligible if they are contributing negatively to it. Instead of letting the lawmakers ease their path through the criminal prosecutions, castigate them openly and publicly to demonise their behaviour and make sure they are seen to be paying the (deserved) price for the low moral standards they introduce.

Violent movies, violent video games, no facing up to the dirty side of death and it's emotional consequences. Children have become so accustomed to violence that it ceases to make them draw clear moral boundaries. When an action has no consequence, how can any lesson be learned?

And the solution to violence in children/teens is to inflict violence on them to teach them that violence is not acceptable?

It is perfectly possible to effectively discipline a child without using violence and it is perfectly possible to teach them that actions have consequences. Parents today have great tools and morality has not disappeared up Paris Hilton's snatch.

I think the point is that although corporal punishment is generally something to be avoided, there might be times with some kids where it's not only warranted, but the only solution available. Since parents can't do anything like that today without the risk of being charged with child abuse, their kids know that they can do almost whatever they want.

another valid point

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

How exactly can violence be the "only option available"?

[*JG* 2]

Lately, I have seen people I know be less then role model material for their children. I've seen them teach total lack of regard for anyone else's feelings or the consequences, as long as they get what they want. I've seen mother's use their children for her own rewards. And, I've seen the children taught how to use people.

I'm not sure the blame for society's problems falls any further then the home, itself, most times.

[HAL 9000 96]

Lately, I have seen people I know be less then role model material for their children. I've seen them teach total lack of regard for anyone else's feelings or the consequences, as long as they get what they want. I've seen mother's use their children for her own rewards. And, I've seen the children taught how to use people.

I'm not sure the blame for society's problems falls any further then the home, itself, most times.

I agree.

Imagine now, for a moment... these people voting.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

BY, you don't seem to know much about your own culture either. There are a lot of novels and films that depict the underbelly of Australian society as well. While these films are of course fictional, they stem from reality, even if that reality is restricted to certain demographics, as it is in the US.

the road warrior is real?

Yes.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

BY, you don't seem to know much about your own culture either. There are a lot of novels and films that depict the underbelly of Australian society as well. While these films are of course fictional, they stem from reality, even if that reality is restricted to certain demographics, as it is in the US.

the road warrior is real?

Yes.

Still the most liveable cities in the world, but between them - desolation and savagery.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Is it really the truth though?

Have these problems of violence really moved beyond the failing schools in the traditionally bad areas?

I firmly believe that the violence is making its way beyond the usual bad areas. What about Columbine and other small town tragedies? I remember when Brockton, MA was a great community. Not so true anymore. And I'm sure it's not limited to my area and experiences.

[HAL 9000 96]

Not to mention that many, MANY apparent gang rapes have been perpetrated precisely BY more affluent kids due to the assumption of impunity in said circles.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Not to mention that many, MANY apparent gang rapes have been perpetrated precisely BY more affluent kids due to the assumption of impunity in said circles.

This is also quite true. And what about the rapes that have occured during college parties? These are supposedly intelligent indivuduals under the influence of alcohol. What about all the porn sites with college girls performing sex acts and behaving promiscuously? Not that I have ever visited one of those sites, I am only bringing it up for thought.

[HAL 9000 96]

Money buys justice. Can we put that on the stat cheat sheet?

[Gemmie 142]

Is it really the truth though?

Have these problems of violence really moved beyond the failing schools in the traditionally bad areas?

I firmly believe that the violence is making its way beyond the usual bad areas. What about Columbine and other small town tragedies? I remember when Brockton, MA was a great community. Not so true anymore. And I'm sure it's not limited to my area and experiences.

I live close to Brockton and I know of its reputation, but there's always the old-age debate about whether certain neighborhoods create crime or if crime creates certain neighborhoods. Studies have shown that there are high crime rates in areas of low employment/economic/living standards.

Now I only read a bit of this topic, and I have noticed that there are more awful stories out there nowadays about how teenagers behave. I don't know if that's because the media are playing it up; if people are jumping on the "teenagers are awful nowadays" wagon and telling their own experiences more; if teenagers have actually become desensitized to crime and that type of behaviour; if discipline in schools has dropped; or even if it SEEMS like teenage crime has gone up because I'm still so young - so I'm only recently seeing things from an outside perspective.

However, I will say that it's not so simple to say "parents do not know how to raise kids these days". There has ALWAYS been crime among teenagers, and for all we know, it's just that more cases are made public now. How many times have people spoke about abuse, rape, assault and drugs from their childhood/youth - and added that in those days, you just never spoke about it? We do know that domestic violence has always existed, for example. But we hear about it more now because it's an open subject often discussed in the media, not just something that was left to "marital business behind closed doors".