Healthcare and Insurance on a Desert Island

[Heracles 417]

Hey, they're on their own. If Matt had it his way, it would be back to the caves, people.

Libertarians seem to ignore the reality that no other first world country is using any of the ideological views the party supports.

Which is why the only argument they can come up with are these overly simplistic deserted island models. Modern society is so much more complex then a few fishermen on a deserted island. There isn't a single, real life example of how successful this approach is which is odd considering it's alleged superiority.

Unfortunately there are many here in the States that live by these simplistic ideological views. They refuse to mention or accept that if their approach is so superior, why no other developed country cares to or want to implement it. Most other developed countries do not implement policies solely based on opinion. They conduct sound research (studies) and look at the best option. Not to mention, they learn from others doing things better; which is the first problem with such issues. You will be hard stretched to find many people admitting others abroad are better at anything. For example, if cars had 5 wheels here, it would be almost impossible to convince people that 4 wheels are more efficient and stable.

They'll learn their lesson once communist China overtakes them and negates all of the anti-government propaganda.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Booyah!

[AlHayatZween 2]

And as usual, Booyah touts the rationed healthcare systems of European countries as grandiose. Well, I will counter with the fact that I'm living in SE Asia, where there is no Medicare/Medicade, HMO's, and little health insurance, yet I can see a doctor today if I want for less than $20 dollars/consultation. Medication is extremely inexpensive, as patent laws don't prevail. A medication I was prescribed in the US for an infection, which was covered by my health insurance cost over $150 dollars. I found the same thing available here for about $8.

Brother Matt,

If you are suggesting that the insurance industry itself is the problem and the unregulated, often unjustified costs of care, I will listen to your argument. I am fed up with them myself. However, we can't just scrap the whole industry. Right now are just try to make some minor tweaks and changes and the whole country is up and arms. Imagine if we just said, F* the whole thing... and just didn't have insurance at alll??

Considering the price of many other products are quite comparable to those of the US, how do you account for this anomaly that shatters your thesis that government is God?

i would account for this anomaly by saying that the industry has become a racket here. The costs for health care, drugs that have been around for years, and standard procedures, have skyrocketed because of simple greed and corporate thievery. That's it...

[mRx 16]

Using simplistic analogies to illustrate a whole raft of complex problems is often doomed to failure.

The intent of the OP was to reduce the complex situation down to it's structural core, and go logically from there...

It's merely a form of deductive reasoning.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think that's optimistic Matt, as it seems to have ignored key parts of the picture.

[mRx 16]

And as usual, Booyah touts the rationed healthcare systems of European countries as grandiose. Well, I will counter with the fact that I'm living in SE Asia, where there is no Medicare/Medicade, HMO's, and little health insurance, yet I can see a doctor today if I want for less than $20 dollars/consultation. Medication is extremely inexpensive, as patent laws don't prevail. A medication I was prescribed in the US for an infection, which was covered by my health insurance cost over $150 dollars. I found the same thing available here for about $8.

Brother Matt,

If you are suggesting that the insurance industry itself is the problem and the unregulated, often unjustified costs of care, I will listen to your argument. I am fed up with them myself. However, we can't just scrap the whole industry. Right now are just try to make some minor tweaks and changes and the whole country is up and arms. Imagine if we just said, F* the whole thing... and just didn't have insurance at alll??

AlHayatZween,

Despite having the appearance of an unregulated healthcare industry, we in fact have the most heavily regulated healthcare industry in the world.

There are more rules, laws, regulations, associations, commissions, bureaus, administrations, oversight/enforcement agencies, and legislative acts in health care than any country on earth. If regulation made an industry better, America would have the highest quality and lowest priced health care in the world--no doubt about it. Proponents of more regulation must concede to this fact.

Now, don't get me wrong. I know the intent of all this regulation is for our "own safety". But you must look at the effect of such regulation.

It's created the greatest industry-wide coercive monopoly in history. The HHS, AMA, JCAHO, AHRQ, etc. all work in effect to limit freedom in the health care industry. Of course, these laws and regulations are passed under the auspices of "public safety", but their true intent is far more insidious. (Prime example: the AMA, which I posted a great article about their history here)

Massive barriers to entry exist in health care. The AMA determines how many students are permitted to medical school, while Federal and State medical boards determine who can practice as a doctor. Massive subsidy agencies (Medicare) ensure prices aren't affected. HMO's ensure monopolization for insurance agencies. (Hell, most doctors don't accept cash-paying customers anymore). As more and more baby-boomers reach Medicare-age, the problem will only get worse... Medicare liabilities are pushing towards $30 trillion (and we thought the Madoff Ponzi was huge).

Nationalizing our industry, creating a single-payer system, or public-option does nothing to address the real problem: That the government has teamed with the health care industry to form the most elaborate coercive monopoly in history. But, the politicians say: "It's for our own good.", while their campaign coffers swell with monopoly prices.

The only solution that will move us towards the right direction is freedom. There is a crying demand for health care, but the doors are held shut by the regulation myriad.

But, again it's all "for our own good".

Considering the price of many other products are quite comparable to those of the US, how do you account for this anomaly that shatters your thesis that government is God?

i would account for this anomaly by saying that the industry has become a racket here. The costs for health care, drugs that have been around for years, and standard procedures, have skyrocketed because of simple greed and corporate thievery... enabled by government

[AlHayatZween 2]

Matt,

Agree on some of your points, but then what could be a viable solution?

Erase everything and start from scratch?

hz