25 Neo-Nazi's protest non-White Immigration in Riverside, CA

[Sofiyya 1,687]

VW has a hard on for Tancredo, he can do no wrong, which is reminiscent of the attitude of some Jews in Germany too

More of your trademark hyperbole. I happen to know Tom personally and, like Rush, he is not the same IRL as the liberal press makes him out to be.

I am very black and white on the issue of whether one should ever support an extremist party. One should not no matter what parts of their policy you might have some sympathy for. It's not hard to understand why. It's very hard to understand why anyone would give such people house room at all.

Then, you will never vote **

Showing once again just how ignorant you are VW.  Why you get into bed with people that don't give a ###### about your heritage is beyond me, but hey, it's a free country.

Yea, I'm ignorant coz I don't fall in line with the "good" brown people, as defined by the left, no? Why would you understand anyone who doesnt hype racial identity politics and has no use for White guilt types who coddle minorities because they need "protection" and can't fend for themselves without condescending lberal policies that allow for their "deficiencies"?

You've been spoonfed ignorant ####### about other races all your life, so, you have a need as a benevolent White person to see all minorities as dependent on the Dimocrats to be sheltered and "saved", but I don't need anyone who wants to treat minorities as pets, like the Dimocrats have done for decades. If that makes me ignorant in your eyes, I accept that to be so. I happy to know that, between us, I am the one who can take pride in my heritage without pigeon holing or defining people by theirs. It may make you feel good about your intentions, but the road to hell is paved with so much of that.

What are you talking about VW, really?  You seem very worked up about it whatever it is but it certainly doesn't describe my interactions with people at all.

You casually call me ignorant because you know what's best for me better than do, but then you claim to be non-biased. Good act, but I don't buy it.

[Susita 175]

A great documentary series about race & racism was on PBS, all the episodes are on you tube. Here's a good clip. For anyone who's interested. In my opinion, it's one of the best I've seen.

[Ken y Leidys 20]

You think I haven't experienced racism or discriminaton, Ken? I'm brown, almost 60 and lived as a child in the South during the Civil Rights movement.

I am not talking about discrimination or bias. I am talking about outright violence directed at myself for the color of my skin. I refuse to live in fear of these thugs. Laws against them attacking me is definitely a start, and I applaud the politicians who helped make these bills turned into laws. You should think about that for yourself as well as your family, and not be blindsided by your adoption of these hate-speakers.

[Peikko 1,575]

VW has a hard on for Tancredo, he can do no wrong, which is reminiscent of the attitude of some Jews in Germany too

More of your trademark hyperbole. I happen to know Tom personally and, like Rush, he is not the same IRL as the liberal press makes him out to be.

I am very black and white on the issue of whether one should ever support an extremist party. One should not no matter what parts of their policy you might have some sympathy for. It's not hard to understand why. It's very hard to understand why anyone would give such people house room at all.

Then, you will never vote **

Showing once again just how ignorant you are VW.  Why you get into bed with people that don't give a ###### about your heritage is beyond me, but hey, it's a free country.

Yea, I'm ignorant coz I don't fall in line with the "good" brown people, as defined by the left, no? Why would you understand anyone who doesnt hype racial identity politics and has no use for White guilt types who coddle minorities because they need "protection" and can't fend for themselves without condescending lberal policies that allow for their "deficiencies"?

You've been spoonfed ignorant ####### about other races all your life, so, you have a need as a benevolent White person to see all minorities as dependent on the Dimocrats to be sheltered and "saved", but I don't need anyone who wants to treat minorities as pets, like the Dimocrats have done for decades. If that makes me ignorant in your eyes, I accept that to be so. I happy to know that, between us, I am the one who can take pride in my heritage without pigeon holing or defining people by theirs. It may make you feel good about your intentions, but the road to hell is paved with so much of that.

What are you talking about VW, really?  You seem very worked up about it whatever it is but it certainly doesn't describe my interactions with people at all.

You casually call me ignorant because you know what's best for me better than do, but then you claim to be non-biased. Good act, but I don't buy it.

You are not required to 'buy' anything VW.  If you prefer to listen to the likes of Rush and Tancredo because they 'get' you then have at it.  Personally, I find your choices ridiculous knowing the temper of their rhetoric, but I have never suggested that you should not do whatever takes your fancy.

[DeadPoolX 9]

I am simply seeing neo nazi groups in black and white terms Deadpool, not the immigration issue itself - that is very, very murky. My point has been throughout this thread, support a neo nazi group at your peril. You seem to be persuaded that on this issue, you agree with them but does that agreement translate into support of the group, because that is a very dangerous path to tread. If you begin the path to legimization of an organization such as this because you do, there is a very big danger in that. Do you simply not understand that at all?

I don't understand your reasoning behind it. What you're saying is that you either completely agree with them or completely disagree with them. As I said before, that's an extremely simplistic viewpoint.

According to your statement, since I ONLY agree with the one of their points (against illegal immigration, which has been touted by MANY groups), I am therefore in-favor of all Neo Nazi and KKK policies. That's simply not the case and in fact, I only agree with them in this situation BECAUSE I dislike illegal immigration. That says absolutely nothing about my feelings on the people themselves or anything about race, color, religion, etc.

The concept that you can agree or disagree with SOME ideals of ANY group is a very logical one. The only alternative is to blindly follow someone or some group. Siding with anyone or any group 100% (such as black-and-white views suggest) is dangerous. Being able to figure out what may be agreeable and what isn't the sign of a rational individual.

[Susita 175]

The concept that you can agree or disagree with SOME ideals of ANY group is a very logical one.

Yeah but it's walking a very thin line when that group is lets say, the KKK or a group of neo-nazis.

You probably agree with them being against illegal immigration but I bet your reasoning for being against it is much, much different, and much more rational. You probably worry more about the economic implications, whereas racist groups worry first and foremost about, well, race.

Always a touchy subject, no?

[Peikko 1,575]

 No, I didn't say any of that Deadpool. What I DID say was very simple. I don't care what 'reasonable' front an extremist party puts up, I do not support anything a neo nazi group does, period. It has nothing to do with being irrational and everything to do with the dangers posed by extremist groups.  There is nothing reasonable about extremism, they should have no place in mainstream political thinking.  

Edited October 25, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[Sofiyya 1,687]

VW has a hard on for Tancredo, he can do no wrong, which is reminiscent of the attitude of some Jews in Germany too

More of your trademark hyperbole. I happen to know Tom personally and, like Rush, he is not the same IRL as the liberal press makes him out to be.

I am very black and white on the issue of whether one should ever support an extremist party. One should not no matter what parts of their policy you might have some sympathy for. It's not hard to understand why. It's very hard to understand why anyone would give such people house room at all.

Then, you will never vote **

Showing once again just how ignorant you are VW.  Why you get into bed with people that don't give a ###### about your heritage is beyond me, but hey, it's a free country.

Yea, I'm ignorant coz I don't fall in line with the "good" brown people, as defined by the left, no? Why would you understand anyone who doesnt hype racial identity politics and has no use for White guilt types who coddle minorities because they need "protection" and can't fend for themselves without condescending lberal policies that allow for their "deficiencies"?

You've been spoonfed ignorant ####### about other races all your life, so, you have a need as a benevolent White person to see all minorities as dependent on the Dimocrats to be sheltered and "saved", but I don't need anyone who wants to treat minorities as pets, like the Dimocrats have done for decades. If that makes me ignorant in your eyes, I accept that to be so. I happy to know that, between us, I am the one who can take pride in my heritage without pigeon holing or defining people by theirs. It may make you feel good about your intentions, but the road to hell is paved with so much of that.

What are you talking about VW, really?  You seem very worked up about it whatever it is but it certainly doesn't describe my interactions with people at all.

You casually call me ignorant because you know what's best for me better than do, but then you claim to be non-biased. Good act, but I don't buy it.

You are not required to 'buy' anything VW.  If you prefer to listen to the likes of Rush and Tancredo because they 'get' you then have at it.  Personally, I find your choices ridiculous knowing the temper of their rhetoric, but I have never suggested that you should not do whatever takes your fancy.

I just posted a new thread about how all us good minorites are supposed to be Dimocrats, inspired by your concern for my inability to think for myself because I'm not a **.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You think I haven't experienced racism or discriminaton, Ken? I'm brown, almost 60 and lived as a child in the South during the Civil Rights movement.

I am not talking about discrimination or bias. I am talking about outright violence directed at myself for the color of my skin. I refuse to live in fear of these thugs. Laws against them attacking me is definitely a start, and I applaud the politicians who helped make these bills turned into laws. You should think about that for yourself as well as your family, and not be blindsided by your adoption of these hate-speakers.

Call the Demorat Party. They've been saving you for 40 years. It must be working; you're accusing me of advocating hate-speech like a proper liberal would.

[Peikko 1,575]

VW has a hard on for Tancredo, he can do no wrong, which is reminiscent of the attitude of some Jews in Germany too

More of your trademark hyperbole. I happen to know Tom personally and, like Rush, he is not the same IRL as the liberal press makes him out to be.

I am very black and white on the issue of whether one should ever support an extremist party. One should not no matter what parts of their policy you might have some sympathy for. It's not hard to understand why. It's very hard to understand why anyone would give such people house room at all.

Then, you will never vote **

Showing once again just how ignorant you are VW.  Why you get into bed with people that don't give a ###### about your heritage is beyond me, but hey, it's a free country.

Yea, I'm ignorant coz I don't fall in line with the "good" brown people, as defined by the left, no? Why would you understand anyone who doesnt hype racial identity politics and has no use for White guilt types who coddle minorities because they need "protection" and can't fend for themselves without condescending lberal policies that allow for their "deficiencies"?

You've been spoonfed ignorant ####### about other races all your life, so, you have a need as a benevolent White person to see all minorities as dependent on the Dimocrats to be sheltered and "saved", but I don't need anyone who wants to treat minorities as pets, like the Dimocrats have done for decades. If that makes me ignorant in your eyes, I accept that to be so. I happy to know that, between us, I am the one who can take pride in my heritage without pigeon holing or defining people by theirs. It may make you feel good about your intentions, but the road to hell is paved with so much of that.

What are you talking about VW, really?  You seem very worked up about it whatever it is but it certainly doesn't describe my interactions with people at all.

You casually call me ignorant because you know what's best for me better than do, but then you claim to be non-biased. Good act, but I don't buy it.

You are not required to 'buy' anything VW.  If you prefer to listen to the likes of Rush and Tancredo because they 'get' you then have at it.  Personally, I find your choices ridiculous knowing the temper of their rhetoric, but I have never suggested that you should not do whatever takes your fancy.

I just posted a new thread about how all us good minorites are supposed to be Dimocrats, inspired by your concern for my inability to think for myself because I'm not a **.

Then you are even more of an idiot than I thought.  What leads you to suppose that I think anyone should vote on party lines, let alone minorities or ethnic groups?

Edited October 25, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[Susita 175]

[Heracles 417]

There's a lot of racist groups like the KKK right here in California...and they are behind the anti-immigration movement. People who side with them against illegal immigrants just don't like to accept that fact. Tom Tancredo, who ran for president last year, was the favored candidate of these groups and he has a track record of being chummy with them.

What "fact" is that? I'm certainly no fan of hate groups like the KKK or Neo Nazis, but illegal immigrants DON'T BELONG in the United States (or any other country). I have nothing against LEGAL immigrants (I'm one myself in Canada), but it's a whole different story when talking about ILLEGAL immigrants.

The open borders crowd always pick the worst possible examples (i.e.: Nazis, KKK, skinheads, etc.) to taint anyone that speaks out against illegal immigration, open borders, and/or unlimited mass immigration. Most people can see through these deceptions.

Exactly. Those who condone open borders deceptively exploit such groups to suggest anyone who speaks up against illegal aliens is racist. Absolute rubbish. Or is the rest of the developed world racist as well? Yes the same countries that are recognized by various international studies from the UN and so on for their compassion and human development.

Illegal does not equal legal. Any suggestions that they are both the same is disingenuous and also quite offensive.

Edited October 25, 2009 by Booyah!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

(from the Southern Poverty Law Center - the organization that has fought against racist groups like the KKK for decades)

The Threat from the Right

Two weeks after the NumbersUSA lobbying trip to the offices of Tom Tancredo and a series of other congressmen, Glenn Spencer, head of the Tanton-funded anti-immigrant American Patrol, was one of the main speakers at a conference hosted by Jared Taylor of American Renaissance magazine. Joining Spencer, who warned his audience that a second Mexican-American war would erupt in 2003, was an array of key extremists:

• Mark Weber, a principal of the Holocaust-denying Institute for Historical Review;
• White power web maven, former Klansman and ex-con Don Black;
• Gordon Lee Baum, "chief executive officer" of the CCC; and
• several members of the neo-Nazi National Alliance.

Neo-Nazis like those of the National Alliance were not among those who lobbied Tancredo and the other politicians during the NumbersUSA event two weeks earlier.

But there were strong indications that the Tanton network and some of its new friends did make a number of key inroads in the halls of Congress.

The white supremacist CCC, for instance, later boasted in print about how its "members were welcomed ... and made a number of stops" during the lobbying trip. Both congressmen and senators were offered copies of its Citizens Informer, the group's newspaper reported.

Several of the anti-immigration activists who attended later claimed that the Tancredo caucus had grown in size specifically because of their lobbying efforts. At the end of the day, the CCC told its members that the Senate was now expected to pass a restrictive visa-tracking bill, which it said President Bush would likely sign.

There were other indications, too, of the strength of the Tanton network inside Tancredo's congressional immigration caucus.

Rosemary Jenks, who used to be a researcher at the Center for Immigration Studies, and Linda Purdue, who has worked with Tanton for years, are now both lobbyists with NumbersUSA.

Addressing her fellow lobbyists with Tancredo still in the room, Jenks said that she and Purdue could be reached any time in Tancredo's offices — where, she said, they were "virtual staffers."

This kind of strategy was explicitly foreseen in the WITAN memos, described under subtitles like "Infiltrate the Judiciary Committee" and "Secure appointments of our friends" to key governmental positions.

Indeed, Cordia Strom, who was once FAIR's legal director, became a staffer for the House Immigration Subcommittee in 1996. Today, Strom is counsel to the director and coordinator of congressional affairs for the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

There is a real threat that members of Congress — many of whom are rushing to become involved in immigration issues in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks — may be taken in by the propagandists of the racist right.

Opinion polls consistently show that a majority of Americans believe that immigration needs to be cut below current levels, although that does not imply that they support the ideas of white supremacists or other bigots.

Certainly, the lobbyists who visited in February were taken seriously by many of those they visited — today, the web page of Tancredo's Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus carries links to the pages of a whole array of Tanton-associated groups.

The danger is not that immigration levels are debated by Americans, but that the debate is controlled by bigots and extremists whose views are anathema to the ideals on which this country was founded. http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport...cle.jsp?pid=180

[Ken y Leidys 20]

You think I haven't experienced racism or discriminaton, Ken? I'm brown, almost 60 and lived as a child in the South during the Civil Rights movement.

I am not talking about discrimination or bias. I am talking about outright violence directed at myself for the color of my skin. I refuse to live in fear of these thugs. Laws against them attacking me is definitely a start, and I applaud the politicians who helped make these bills turned into laws. You should think about that for yourself as well as your family, and not be blindsided by your adoption of these hate-speakers.

Call the Demorat Party. They've been saving you for 40 years. It must be working; you're accusing me of advocating hate-speech like a proper liberal would.

No, I didn't say that. Please don't insult my intelligence that way.

[Heracles 417]

There is a mountain of issues and consequences associated with allowing anyone to enter as they personally see fit.

----------

Post 2000 (immigration figures):

* While Mexicans make up 1.7% of the world's population, over the last few years, over 1/3 of (34.9%) immigrants to the United States were from Mexico.

* Only 1.1% of immigrants to the United States were from Canada; Keep in mind that Mexico only has 3.2 times Canada's population.

* South America has: 385,742,554 people ~ 5.9% of the word's population but makes up nearly 2/3 (58.7%) of post 2000 immigrants to the United States.

----------

Is this what some here call equitable immigration? Do those immigration figures seem fair to you? That is one group muscling their way into a country. I am starting to see why Australia and Canada are the destination of choice for those from first world countries.

Still waiting to know what Visa class they used to enter. I am sure the other 94% of the world would like also like to know this so they too have the opportunity to enter the United States. Or is immigration predominately limited to South Americans?

Edited October 25, 2009 by Booyah!