Candian marrying American in U.S.

[warlord 73]

Hi all. Thanks so much to all of you whom posted the replies. I was worried sick that day after running into the lady whom I mentioned in my post, especially when my girlfriend was scared. The lady was, believe or not, an Antiques store dealer. We almost stepped out the door after checking out the store at first, and then got into a small talk at the door. Literally. What are the odds that the small talk about me coming from Canada, which led to the revelation of her past marriage to another Canadian, which turned out to be quite a scare for me? Anyway, all of your replies certainly shed some light on the matter.

Sorry. I am not 100% sure what to do yet (and that's why I still need to clarify a couple of things with you guys if you don't mind) even though I have read all of your posts a couple of times. So, I've decided to post a breakdown of what I've understood so far with some additional information about the matter in order to get clear answers. Please, bear with me, and correct me and guide me if I am mistaken.

First off, the intent. My American girlfriend and I had wanted to stay together before I crossed the border, of course, thinking of wishful marriage down the road. I say 'wishful' because of the reason that follows below. (To clarify. I'm not using the word to void what I said in the first post. I just want to explain where I was coming from.)

As you all know, love blinds everyone and surely it did me. We talked about marriage in numerous occasions, but I can't say that it was concrete that she would marry me immediately upon my arrival.

Because...

She was coming out of divorce when we started having our long distance relationship. So, she was definitely reluctant to jump right back into marriage, and her divorce wasn't finalized at the time when we talked about the move.

It was more of trial basis because our long distance relationship had never involved live-in periods until I joined her as you suspect in spite of the fact that we travelled back and force to spend time together with each other. She first suggested that I come down and stay with her. Of course, it meant that I had to drop everything. I gave it a great amount of thought and made the 'move.' It was a leap of faith on my part that it would work out eventually, including marriage down the road. I quit my job in Canada, which means you can arguably say that I no longer have ties to Canada at this point. (Please, correct me if I am mistaken about 'ties to Canada.')

Once again, I can't say that I crossed the border knowing 100% that we would eventually marry. Of course, I hoped we marry. Who doesn't when he/she makes such a big, life changing move? Even though she and I talked about it several times, however, the thing is that she never agreed to the idea that she would marry me so that I could stay legally (because of the reason I mentioned above). In other words, she would consider it but wanted to make sure if our relationship worked before she came to decide. I am sure some of you might know what it is like to be in that position. However, as scared as I was, I really wanted to give our relationship a try. (I hoped for the best when I had to just lunge into the water, not knowing how deep it is.)

So, if everything goes as she and I talked about it, without any unforeseen disagreements and conflicts that would erupt in the trial period, we (not just I, but we) assumed that we would eventually get married. Of course, my brother and my mother were skeptical about the idea because what if it didn't work out, I had to move back. My brother was even worried if she didn't marry me before the six months were up.

To be honest, I had been ever hopeful until one day she and I had a big argument over some complaints about each other and she stated that she would never marry me. It was one of the scariest moments, and a couple of days after we patched it up, and everything is fine now, but it made me realize at the time that marriage might not happen. Of course, I am happy to inform you guys that she and I are planning to marry next month.

Bottom line is that it definitely wasn't a spur of the moment thing, however, it wasn't also a done deal per se as far as marriage's concern. (Please, clarify it for me, DeadPoolX, warlord. Note: Swear to God, I am making as clear as I can.)

Second, what the majority of you guys are saying is that, if I am not mistaken, there's no problem on marrying an American in the U.S. while visiting, however, if I want to stay and apply for the AOS, it is not legal to do so when it is considered that I had all the intention to marry someone here and to stay afterwards. That's why it all comes down to the intent. (Please, verify it for me, Ant+D+A, Kathryn41, trailmix, DeadPoolX.)

So, what are my next steps? Like some of you mentioned, after marriage, would my immediate next step be to go back to Canada and to apply for the CR-1 while my girlfriend files an I-130, if I am considered to have an intent to marry her and to stay afterwards (like Kathry41's detailed guideline)?

Or, if not, should I just stay here to apply to AOS after our wedding next month, followed by other paperwork (like Kathry41's and Ant+D+A's detailed guidelines)?

I apologize once again if what I wrote above isn't even close to what you guys have been trying to explain to me.

All I want is to stay with her. If I must return to Canada after our wedding next month, I will. Also, if you guys still think that my intent was not okay to marry her and stay, then I guess she and I shouldn't have a wedding next month (even though she's already begun looking for a judge). But if I can stay and start the paperwork even though it takes a year to complete the process, I'd love to do that.

Thanks for all the replies, and please, guide me in the right direction.

Well yes, at least you understand that you didn't enter the US legally (though you just weren't caught and obviously didn't realize it anyways). It's not that you purposly did that or planned to do that knowing you were breaking the immigration law. If you had brought up to the border guard that you were even thinking of MAYBE marrying your girlfriend and staying there, they they would have denied you unless you had told them you are comming right back to Canada and filing the right paper work and then proving you had a lot of ties still to Canada (job, mortgage, rent etc.)

Now that it wasn't done that way and you are now here, there's 2 choices.

a) One, return to Canada and file all the paper work mentioned. You'd still be married, but living seperatly for how long that takes and then going through the immigration process until you can legally come back into the US and then file for AOS like most people on the board here did

or

B) Get married and file for AOS from inside the US. Though you will be there with an illegal presence until the AOS is approved, if you get the AOS and your AP and EAD card, then you will be fine. At the interview for the Green Card they will waive any illegal presence usually before the marriage. It's a anomosity status they have believe it or not. So even though you weren't legal in the US prior to marriage and AOS being approved, they will not deport you or hold that against you and will wipe the slate clean if of course they find your marriage to be valid and you two are living together, sharing bills, joint accounts etc.

The only drawback of B) is that 1) you will not be able to leave the country at all for any reason until AOS is approved and you have the AP in your hand. Leaving will bar you entry at that stage. 2) you can't work or really do anything. Also there is a remote chance that you could be found out and then you would just be deported out of the country. Odds on that aren't very high though. This happens very often believe it or not and INS isn't really out there on a hunt to find Canadians here illegally as it's hard to tell Canadians from Americans.

So I don't want to condone B) and really say do that, but the INS obviously has that waiver in place and they do follow that for whatever reason. So as long as you don't get sent back, they will forgive that. This then would eliminate having to do all the stuff needed in a).

Really those are about the only two options that you have at this point...

Edit: B) was explained to me by my immigration lawyer and another immigration lawyer that came to my interview with me and my wife (originally lawyer couldn't make the date as he was out of town). This was back in 2003. I was worried they would have problems of me applying for AOS on a TN status, so they explained how that won't matter at all and how they will waive people here with illegal presence as well. You may need to check to see if this is still the case, as things could have changed in the past 7 or so years...

Edited October 28, 2009 by warlord

[warlord 73]

Ok apparently I am no longer able to edit my previous post. The stupid editor too my letter with a bracket as a stupid smiley face icon. So I tried to change it from b ) minus the space to B -

Well I edited it with that last edit part and now it's locked out. So just substitue the smiley face with a: b )

Edited October 28, 2009 by warlord

[BermyCat 1]

Phil and I wanted to do the same thing as you guys. We wanted to live together for a few months to decide whether or not get married. If we got married, we figured I'd just stay. Fortunately, went to the US consulate in Bermuda to ask about immigration first. We were told quite explicitly that this scenario is considered entering the US with the intent to immigrate and that if we told the CBP officer the truth I would have been denied entry. So warlord is right, you are here illegally at the moment. The visa adviser in Bermuda said that loads of people get away with this but there is still a slim chance that the Adjustment of Status application could be denied. If that happens, there is no option to appeal.

Phil and I tend to be risk averse so we applied for a fiancée visa instead. You guys will need to decide whether avoiding time away from each other is worth the admittedly small risk of getting banned.

~ Catherine

[antda 13]

Hi MacTO,

Thanks for detailing your story even further, and explaining more about your situation, so that everyone here on vj can help here.

From what I read, I admit, it sounds like how my boyfriend (now husband) and I felt about our relationship: Before I came to the USA for a vist, and he was still visiting me in Canada (I couldn't go over to the USA at that time due to other commitments, so he came to visit me in Canada for many years on a live-in relationship basis), we jokingly talked about getting married someday, be it that we loved each other. However, I was unsure about getting married and wanted more time to think about this. As well, he wanted me to visit his family and area he lived in before we made such a decision, and even said to me "you either come down to the USA for a visit only, or we call it quits". So I did just that, gave everything up, packed only a few bags of stuff, didn't tell anyone else in Canada that I was coming over, and came over with the intention of just visiting (which immigration interrogated me about too..scary..). Well the time that I spent with him and his family here in the USA ended up being a positive experience and further confirmed our prior thoughts that marriage was right for us. So before my two week visitor's visa was about to expire, we got married. Then we realized...uh oh..I might be here illegally...Not knowing what else to do, we then contacted an immigration lawyer, who told us do the Visitor to AOS route, which worked out well for us, we got our case approved, and the rest is history (see my vj timeline for more info)....

From what I read that you posted, you were kind of thinking along the same lines too, wanting to "try it out", before you made that "commitment of marriage" and were just here for a visit in order to do this, and hence had no intent of commiting fraud there. Understandable, since marriage is a "lifetime commitment" and you don't want to jump into things before you are ready for such. It's good that you and your girlfriend talked about such a commitment before you make such a decision and are ready for such indeed. In my opinion, based on what you have mentioned, I think that you should go for the Visitor to AOS route, as when you first came here, you did not 100% want to get married in the first place. And added to the fact that you did not make any definite wedding/marriage plans before your visit justifies this. People can change their minds when they come into the country for a visit, and that's ok too, and oddly enough, immigration allows for this "change of mind" too.

So the direction I would steer you towards is (which is prefectly legal to do): to get married as soon as possible and to file for the AOS paperwork and gather the evidence for such, as soon as possible (as I mentioned in detailed about in an earlier previous post). However, bear in mind that while you are filing your AOS, you will be somewhat "illegal" here, with no ways of establishing your legal status here until you are approved (for example, no job, no bank account, no social security card, no driver's license, etc.). You cannot go back to Canada either, unless you get advance parole and/or your AOS case is approved. And that if your case is denied, you will have no way to appeal this decision. So if that's the risk you are willing to take for the next few months (3-6 months, I think based on current AOS processing times), I say go for it. If not, you might as well file some other immigration visa (k1, k3, cr1) which is more of the safer approach there.

Oh and when you are questioned by an immigration officer during your AOS interview or otherwise: Tell the truth, be honest, and you should be ok there...

Hope this helps you further. Good luck with the rest of your journey too.

Ant

Hi all. Thanks so much to all of you whom posted the replies. I was worried sick that day after running into the lady whom I mentioned in my post, especially when my girlfriend was scared. The lady was, believe or not, an Antiques store dealer. We almost stepped out the door after checking out the store at first, and then got into a small talk at the door. Literally. What are the odds that the small talk about me coming from Canada, which led to the revelation of her past marriage to another Canadian, which turned out to be quite a scare for me? Anyway, all of your replies certainly shed some light on the matter.

Sorry. I am not 100% sure what to do yet (and that's why I still need to clarify a couple of things with you guys if you don't mind) even though I have read all of your posts a couple of times. So, I've decided to post a breakdown of what I've understood so far with some additional information about the matter in order to get clear answers. Please, bear with me, and correct me and guide me if I am mistaken.

First off, the intent. My American girlfriend and I had wanted to stay together before I crossed the border, of course, thinking of wishful marriage down the road. I say 'wishful' because of the reason that follows below. (To clarify. I'm not using the word to void what I said in the first post. I just want to explain where I was coming from.)

As you all know, love blinds everyone and surely it did me. We talked about marriage in numerous occasions, but I can't say that it was concrete that she would marry me immediately upon my arrival.

Because...

She was coming out of divorce when we started having our long distance relationship. So, she was definitely reluctant to jump right back into marriage, and her divorce wasn't finalized at the time when we talked about the move.

It was more of trial basis because our long distance relationship had never involved live-in periods until I joined her as you suspect in spite of the fact that we travelled back and force to spend time together with each other. She first suggested that I come down and stay with her. Of course, it meant that I had to drop everything. I gave it a great amount of thought and made the 'move.' It was a leap of faith on my part that it would work out eventually, including marriage down the road. I quit my job in Canada, which means you can arguably say that I no longer have ties to Canada at this point. (Please, correct me if I am mistaken about 'ties to Canada.')

Once again, I can't say that I crossed the border knowing 100% that we would eventually marry. Of course, I hoped we marry. Who doesn't when he/she makes such a big, life changing move? Even though she and I talked about it several times, however, the thing is that she never agreed to the idea that she would marry me so that I could stay legally (because of the reason I mentioned above). In other words, she would consider it but wanted to make sure if our relationship worked before she came to decide. I am sure some of you might know what it is like to be in that position. However, as scared as I was, I really wanted to give our relationship a try. (I hoped for the best when I had to just lunge into the water, not knowing how deep it is.)

So, if everything goes as she and I talked about it, without any unforeseen disagreements and conflicts that would erupt in the trial period, we (not just I, but we) assumed that we would eventually get married. Of course, my brother and my mother were skeptical about the idea because what if it didn't work out, I had to move back. My brother was even worried if she didn't marry me before the six months were up.

To be honest, I had been ever hopeful until one day she and I had a big argument over some complaints about each other and she stated that she would never marry me. It was one of the scariest moments, and a couple of days after we patched it up, and everything is fine now, but it made me realize at the time that marriage might not happen. Of course, I am happy to inform you guys that she and I are planning to marry next month.

Bottom line is that it definitely wasn't a spur of the moment thing, however, it wasn't also a done deal per se as far as marriage's concern. (Please, clarify it for me, DeadPoolX, warlord. Note: Swear to God, I am making as clear as I can.)

Second, what the majority of you guys are saying is that, if I am not mistaken, there's no problem on marrying an American in the U.S. while visiting, however, if I want to stay and apply for the AOS, it is not legal to do so when it is considered that I had all the intention to marry someone here and to stay afterwards. That's why it all comes down to the intent. (Please, verify it for me, Ant+D+A, Kathryn41, trailmix, DeadPoolX.)

So, what are my next steps? Like some of you mentioned, after marriage, would my immediate next step be to go back to Canada and to apply for the CR-1 while my girlfriend files an I-130, if I am considered to have an intent to marry her and to stay afterwards (like Kathry41's detailed guideline)?

Or, if not, should I just stay here to apply to AOS after our wedding next month, followed by other paperwork (like Kathry41's and Ant+D+A's detailed guidelines)?

I apologize once again if what I wrote above isn't even close to what you guys have been trying to explain to me.

All I want is to stay with her. If I must return to Canada after our wedding next month, I will. Also, if you guys still think that my intent was not okay to marry her and stay, then I guess she and I shouldn't have a wedding next month (even though she's already begun looking for a judge). But if I can stay and start the paperwork even though it takes a year to complete the process, I'd love to do that.

Thanks for all the replies, and please, guide me in the right direction.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Ant+D+A

[bluegreen 0]

To the OP:

We were in a similar situation. I think we were even closer to marriage - we were actually engaged with a wedding date (1.5 years in the future). We were really planning on settling in Canada, but I wanted to spend more time together and had a flexible schedule (I was self employed) so I rented out my house and cancelled upcoming contracts and came down to the US to spend the winter. We ended up deciding we wanted to live in the US and that it would all be much easier if we got married. So we did, after 2 months, and I filed for AOS and we were fine.

Just another scenario for you:)

[MacTO 6]

Hi all. Hope everyone had a wonderful Halloween.

First and foremost, thanks very much for your support and advice. I read all the replies of yours over and over and looked into what's required to file for the AOS paperwork. Started downloading and filling out all the necessary forms (I-485: Application to Adjust Status, I-131: Application for Travel Document, G-325A: Biographic Information, I-693: Record of Medical Examination, I-765: Application for Employment Authorization). Of course, I have to actually book an appointment with one of the civil surgeons to complete I-693.

Meantime, my girlfriend is filling out I-864: Affidavit of Support, and I-130: Petition for Alien Relative.

By the way, one of the surprises: the fee for I-485 is $1,010, which also covers I-131 and I-765, including biometric fee of $80.

I have a few questions to ask if you don't mind.

First, about the Evidence of Status. It reads,

1. Submit a copy of your Form I-94, Nonimmigrant Arrical/Departure Record, showing your admission to the U.S. and current status, or other evidence of your status.
2. If you entered using Border Cross Card, submit a photocopy of the card.
3. If you don't have such proof, contact an attorney before proceeding further or you may risk deportation.

I came as a visitor (no stamp or no visa given to me - CLEAN passport, blank pages), so I have nothing to show. Do you guys suggest I contact a lawyer about this?

Second, it reads,

If you are filing under one of the following categories:

Spouse, parent, unmarried son/daughter under age 21 of a U.S. citizen with an approved or concurrently filed Form 1-130;

File at: USCIS P.O. Box 805887 Chicago, IL 60680-4120

I am sending the whole thing to the Chicago USCIS office, right?

Third, do I need to include my girlfriend's Certificate of Divorce, and our Marriage Licence or Certificate with the applications?

I apologize in advance if these questions are too daft to ask. My girlfriend and I have an appointment with a judge in about two weeks. And also we have to pick up a marriage licence before as well. My plan is to get everything organized and ready before our ceremony (unfortunately neither of us has family members here at the moment, so we decided to do a quick civil ceremony with just a couple of witnesses), so that it can go out immediately.

Once again thanks so much for your thoughts and suggestions. And please, let me know anything that I should know. Thanks.

[bradcanuck 1]

I did not have the I-94 stamp, and this did not hinder progress. A lot of crossings do not issue that stamp now, especially with Canadians.

[bluegreen 0]

Hi all. Hope everyone had a wonderful Halloween.

First and foremost, thanks very much for your support and advice. I read all the replies of yours over and over and looked into what's required to file for the AOS paperwork. Started downloading and filling out all the necessary forms (I-485: Application to Adjust Status, I-131: Application for Travel Document, G-325A: Biographic Information, I-693: Record of Medical Examination, I-765: Application for Employment Authorization). Of course, I have to actually book an appointment with one of the civil surgeons to complete I-693.

Meantime, my girlfriend is filling out I-864: Affidavit of Support, and I-130: Petition for Alien Relative.

By the way, one of the surprises: the fee for I-485 is $1,010, which also covers I-131 and I-765, including biometric fee of $80.

I have a few questions to ask if you don't mind.

First, about the Evidence of Status. It reads,

1. Submit a copy of your Form I-94, Nonimmigrant Arrical/Departure Record, showing your admission to the U.S. and current status, or other evidence of your status.
2. If you entered using Border Cross Card, submit a photocopy of the card.
3. If you don't have such proof, contact an attorney before proceeding further or you may risk deportation.

I came as a visitor (no stamp or no visa given to me - CLEAN passport, blank pages), so I have nothing to show. Do you guys suggest I contact a lawyer about this?

Second, it reads,

If you are filing under one of the following categories:

Spouse, parent, unmarried son/daughter under age 21 of a U.S. citizen with an approved or concurrently filed Form 1-130;

File at: USCIS P.O. Box 805887 Chicago, IL 60680-4120

I am sending the whole thing to the Chicago USCIS office, right?

Third, do I need to include my girlfriend's Certificate of Divorce, and our Marriage Licence or Certificate with the applications?

I apologize in advance if these questions are too daft to ask. My girlfriend and I have an appointment with a judge in about two weeks. And also we have to pick up a marriage licence before as well. My plan is to get everything organized and ready before our ceremony (unfortunately neither of us has family members here at the moment, so we decided to do a quick civil ceremony with just a couple of witnesses), so that it can go out immediately.

Once again thanks so much for your thoughts and suggestions. And please, let me know anything that I should know. Thanks.

Don' forget you ALSO have to include the fee for the I-130, which is about $365, I think. And make sure you shop around for a doctor who can do the medical (I found their prices varied wildly from $250 to $750).

When I filled out my paperwork, I was reluctant to leave anything blank, so every time it asked for an A# or I-94 I wrote: "NA—Canadian visitor" or "Not issued—Canadian".

You send everything together in one package but treat it like two separate packages. Follow the guide exactly. I think I ended up submitting about 7 different passport photos, because each individual form has to be able to stand alone. I actually put the entire I-130 package together with its own separate cover sheet and a bulldog clip and same with the I-485. Then I put them in one envelope.

You have to provide a copy of the divorce certificate and a copy of the certified marriage certificate (not the license and not the decorative certificate). Sometimes you have to wait up to a week to receive the actual certificate, depending on where you live. We got married in Vegas and were able to pick it up at the courthouse after three days. Don't send the originals and don't bother getting the copies certified. Also make sure you have a long form birth certificate (the plastic cards are insufficient, as they do not include all the vital info. I had to order mine from Ontario - $30 and took 5 days).