SEALED ENVELOPE FROM THE EMBASSY

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I think you are getting confused... I looked at your timeline and you are only at the NOA2 step. You should not have purchased the ticket yet. When the NOA2 says "approved" it means they've accepted your K1 application. You still have NVC to go through and the embassy still has to send you packet 3 (checklist of what you need to bring to the interview) and packet 4 (interview letter). You still have the medical to do and you can't do the medical until you have an interview date. You have already assumed his visa is approved completely. The mysterious brown envelope comes after the medical and is taken with you to the interview. If you are approved at the interview stageYou still shouldn't book an airline ticket until VISA IS IN HAND. I hope this clears things up for you. Sorry you purchased the ticket already.

Good catch Mstee.

I also looked at her timeline and it appears the same to me...PETITION approval. Not VISA approval. That would explain the missing envelope. The OP should be prepared to lose her money for the plane tickets, or at least the re-schedule fee.

DO NOT buy plane tickets or make any other plans until you have the visa is hand, it will be in his passport. Look in his passport, if you do not see a full page, K-1 visa in there with hs photo on it, DO NOT buy plane tickets.

[MRStee 19]

I think you are getting confused... I looked at your timeline and you are only at the NOA2 step. You should not have purchased the ticket yet. When the NOA2 says "approved" it means they've accepted your K1 application. You still have NVC to go through and the embassy still has to send you packet 3 (checklist of what you need to bring to the interview) and packet 4 (interview letter). You still have the medical to do and you can't do the medical until you have an interview date. You have already assumed his visa is approved completely. The mysterious brown envelope comes after the medical and is taken with you to the interview. If you are approved at the interview stageYou still shouldn't book an airline ticket until VISA IS IN HAND. I hope this clears things up for you. Sorry you purchased the ticket already.

Good catch Mstee.

I also looked at her timeline and it appears the same to me...PETITION approval. Not VISA approval. That would explain the missing envelope. The OP should be prepared to lose her money for the plane tickets, or at least the re-schedule fee.

DO NOT buy plane tickets or make any other plans until you have the visa is hand, it will be in his passport. Look in his passport, if you do not see a full page, K-1 visa in there with hs photo on it, DO NOT buy plane tickets.

I am just glad I did and Im glad someone recommended this site to me, because I truthfully would have been lost in the process!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Gary -

If you are going to be a wise guy with members, you should get your facts straight.

Because as it has been explained to you before, the brown envelope is not just used for adjustment of status.

But hey - it's Sunday morning, you are bored and on a roll. Don't let little facts stop you.

TOS violation reported

Edited October 25, 2009 by Gary and Alla

[Susita 175]

I don't remember in which forum, but someone accidentally opened the envelope and I remember them going back to the embassy and inspecting it and putting it in a new envelope. I doubt they'd be happy with you but it's worth a shot. I guess it would totally depend on which embassy it is as well.

[SuperDuper! 230]

Amazing how people can enter the US without a visa envelope.

Why? The vast majority of people entering the US (legally) do not have a "visa envelope". It is Sunday morning and I promise you, with the anadian dollar at nearly par, the Champlain Border Crossing very close to my home has a line backed up for probably 45 minutes or more, all Canadians entering the US to spend their money here, avoid the high taxes charged for their government healthcare plan, (15% sales tax in Quebec vs. 0% on food, clothes, and shoes in Vermont) and enjoy a day in Burlington. NONE have visa envelopes. NONE have visas. NONE will even get so much as a passport stamp. The contents of the envelope have nothing to do with the person being admitted to the US, per se. That is what the visa is for. The envelope contents are used for the adjustment of status process. People with dual intent visas, K visas, have these envelopes.

Oddly enough, if you have the envelope and OPEN IT, against the rules...they will likely NOT admit you to the USA. If you simply don't have it, or lose it, they WILL admit you but not without considerable hassel and expense.

Gary, we are referring to people who are issued and envelope, and then lose it, and still gain entry. It is amazing considering the damn thing is considered so important. BTW, have you considered switching to decaffe?

Peace.

[Lina y Mario 0]

As the original poster of this thread, I would first like to thank everyone for their imput and very valuable information. To MStee, I have not updated my timeline lately, however, we have already had the interview at the Embassy and have been APPROVED. I now know that in addition to receiving his passport with the visa, my fiance should also expect the mysterious sealed envelope. Have a great day, everyone!

[Teffah 5]

I think you are getting confused... I looked at your timeline and you are only at the NOA2 step. You should not have purchased the ticket yet. When the NOA2 says "approved" it means they've accepted your K1 application. You still have NVC to go through and the embassy still has to send you packet 3 (checklist of what you need to bring to the interview) and packet 4 (interview letter). You still have the medical to do and you can't do the medical until you have an interview date. You have already assumed his visa is approved completely. The mysterious brown envelope comes after the medical and is taken with you to the interview. If you are approved at the interview stageYou still shouldn't book an airline ticket until VISA IS IN HAND. I hope this clears things up for you. Sorry you purchased the ticket already.

It says they recieved their NOA2 on 2009-06-26 - I think they just did not update her timeline.

As the original poster of this thread, I would first like to thank everyone for their imput and very valuable information. To MStee, I have not updated my timeline lately, however, we have already had the interview at the Embassy and have been APPROVED. I now know that in addition to receiving his passport with the visa, my fiance should also expect the mysterious sealed envelope. Have a great day, everyone!

Opps, lol too late. Ugh!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Amazing how people can enter the US without a visa envelope.

Why? The vast majority of people entering the US (legally) do not have a "visa envelope". It is Sunday morning and I promise you, with the anadian dollar at nearly par, the Champlain Border Crossing very close to my home has a line backed up for probably 45 minutes or more, all Canadians entering the US to spend their money here, avoid the high taxes charged for their government healthcare plan, (15% sales tax in Quebec vs. 0% on food, clothes, and shoes in Vermont) and enjoy a day in Burlington. NONE have visa envelopes. NONE have visas. NONE will even get so much as a passport stamp. The contents of the envelope have nothing to do with the person being admitted to the US, per se. That is what the visa is for. The envelope contents are used for the adjustment of status process. People with dual intent visas, K visas, have these envelopes.

Oddly enough, if you have the envelope and OPEN IT, against the rules...they will likely NOT admit you to the USA. If you simply don't have it, or lose it, they WILL admit you but not without considerable hassel and expense.

Gary, we are referring to people who are issued and envelope, and then lose it, and still gain entry. It is amazing considering the damn thing is considered so important. BTW, have you considered switching to decaffe?

Peace.

Decaffe lemonade? I don't drink coffee. I know, maybe I should?

The envelope IS important, it is just not so important for entry into the USA, and don't think that they just wave people through without it, it is a major pain in the butt and expensive if you lose the envelope, but they will let you in. It is certainly not to be taken lightly or dismissed, it is a big problem if lost, just not a problem that keeps you out of the country.

[MRStee 19]

As the original poster of this thread, I would first like to thank everyone for their imput and very valuable information. To MStee, I have not updated my timeline lately, however, we have already had the interview at the Embassy and have been APPROVED. I now know that in addition to receiving his passport with the visa, my fiance should also expect the mysterious sealed envelope. Have a great day, everyone!

Okay that makes more sense now. Yes he will get it when the visa and passport come! Good luck to you guys with your adjustment to life in the US

[rebeccajo 14]

The envelope IS important, it is just not so important for entry into the USA, and don't think that they just wave people through without it, it is a major pain in the butt and expensive if you lose the envelope, but they will let you in. It is certainly not to be taken lightly or dismissed, it is a big problem if lost, just not a problem that keeps you out of the country.

As far as I am aware, we have one case for anecdotal evidence in this community of a party entering without the envelope (and that was very recent).

It is careless to assume one can be let in without it. CBP is charged with inspecting the contents and are permitted to turn an entrant around should something in the envelope not be in order. There are known cases of turn-arounds due to consular errors after the envelope contents have been inspected.

In the recent case on Vj the "envelope-less" entrant was admitted but there was quite a bit of back and forth behind the scenes and (as far as I am aware) we don't know exactly what went on between CBP from that airport and the issuing consulate.

Border guards would be well within their charged duties to NOT admit an alien whose status required production of the envelope for admission to the US.

Edited October 25, 2009 by rebeccajo

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The envelope IS important, it is just not so important for entry into the USA, and don't think that they just wave people through without it, it is a major pain in the butt and expensive if you lose the envelope, but they will let you in. It is certainly not to be taken lightly or dismissed, it is a big problem if lost, just not a problem that keeps you out of the country.

As far as I am aware, we have one case for anecdotal evidence in this community of a party entering without the envelope (and that was very recent).

It is careless to assume one can be let in without it. CBP is charged with inspecting the contents and are permitted to turn an entrant around should something in the envelope not be in order. There are known cases of turn-arounds due to consular errors after the envelope contents have been inspected.

In the recent case on Vj the "envelope-less" entrant was admitted but there was quite a bit of back and forth behind the scenes and (as far as I am aware) we don't know exactly what went on between CBP from that airport and the issuing consulate.

Border guards would be well within their charged duties to NOT admit an alien whose status required production of the envelope for admission to the US.

USCSI and CBP have many cases of this. VJ members, being better informed than the average K immigrant, have rarely had this problem. It ahppens everyday. There is not requirement for a K visa holder to have this envelope to "protect their status" upon entry, whatver that means. Whatever happens in the background is really no ones concern, having the necessary information to handle a situation IS. However, as stated by USCIS it happens everyday.

Besides the recent evidence that one can enter without the envelope, we have the information from a fairly high placed exec at USCIS that there is nothing in that envelope needed for entry into the US. Would they be within their rights to refuse entry? Yes, but only because they give wide latitude to CBP officers to make these decisions, not because of any specific requirements. To make anything of this would be the same as warning every person from a VWP program country that they may not be able to enter either because it is within the rights of a CBP officer to refuse them. It is, it happens. I do not run around like chicken little saying the sky is falling. In the case mentioned, I had spoken with this individual at USCIS to get specific instructions to be sure that no uninformed CBP officer made this decision on his own. And as it turned they did not. Having information and how to handle a situation is a powerful tool and that is what VJ is for, to inform, not to frighten. With the information we now have, it is pointless to attempt to frighten members rather than inform them of how to handle a situation that may arise. IF one could still claim ignorance of a situation, the chicken little response would at least be more understandable. With the necessary information at hand...it is silly.

If it ever occurs that anyone reading this does not receive the envelope, contact the consulate immediately. If in the case that occurred recently, the envelope was lost and the person boarded the flight without it, make a copy of the I-129f file and take it with you to pick them up. Inform CBP that they have lost the envelope. It happens. I was, if anything, surprised at the nonchalance of the USCIS director on this matter, which was basically "Oh yeah..it happens"

I have not found any other purpose for the envelope than AOS, RJ knows of some so she will inform us, I suppose. Again, if it happens, it is not the end of the world, just a hassel and expense.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Gary and Alla

[rebeccajo 14]

Gary -

I have informed you of the reason before. But I shall do so again.

Firstly, nothing in my post is intended to "frighten" members. It is rather to inform. You have made several statements which indicate some lack of knowledge regarding the scope of authority granted to Customs and Border Agents.

There are specific duties required of an Agent regarding a non-immigrant entry - entry does not merely fall under the "wide scope of authority" as you allude above. One of the duties is to inspect documentation issued from USCIS and DOS at the point of entry.

One of the charged duties of "uninformed CBP agents" (as you call them) is to verify the alien is in possession of any waivers which may be required to support the visa in the passport. Such a waiver, if required, would be inside the envelope.

As I discussed recently there is anecdotal evidence in this community in 2006 of a member having been turned around at the Dublin CBP after his envelope contents were inspected. The "uninformed" agent inspected the Police Certificate of the alien and determined the issuing Consulate had overlooked an inadmissible offense and the alien was not in possession of a waiver. Long story short - the "uninformed" agent was correct. London had erred and the gentleman's fiance was required to file a waiver of inadmissibility.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Gary -

I have informed you of the reason before. But I shall do so again.

Firstly, nothing in my post is intended to "frighten" members. It is rather to inform. You have made several statements which indicate some lack of knowledge regarding the scope of authority granted to Customs and Border Agents.

There are specific duties required of an Agent regarding a non-immigrant entry - entry does not merely fall under the "wide scope of authority" as you allude above. One of the duties is to inspect documentation issued from USCIS and DOS at the point of entry.

One of the charged duties of "uninformed CBP agents" (as you call them) is to verify the alien is in possession of any waivers which may be required to support the visa in the passport. Such a waiver, if required, would be inside the envelope.

As I discussed recently there is anecdotal evidence in this community in 2006 of a member having been turned around at the Dublin CBP after his envelope contents were inspected. The "uninformed" agent inspected the Police Certificate of the alien and determined the issuing Consulate had overlooked an inadmissible offense and the alien was not in possession of a waiver. Long story short - the "uninformed" agent was correct. London had erred and the gentleman's fiance was required to file a waiver of inadmissibility.

Once again, I will repeat. A person WITHOUT an envelope will not be turned away if the petitioner follows the procedures they should and informs CBP of the issue so that an uninformed CBP officer does not excerise his judgement to turn them away. The case you cite in Dublin is not of a person without an envelope.

Had the gentleman in Dublin not had his envelope, he would likely have been permitted to enter and then the error would be discovered at the deferred insection.

The case you cite DOES indicate why people with OPEN envelopes are routinely denied entry, not to mention that the papers could be changed for a different person or who knows what else could be added or subtracted.

[rebeccajo 14]

Once again, I will repeat. A person WITHOUT an envelope will not be turned away if the petitioner follows the procedures they should and informs CBP of the issue so that an uninformed CBP officer does not excerise his judgement to turn them away. The case you cite in Dublin is not of a person without an envelope.

Had the gentleman in Dublin not had his envelope, he would likely have been permitted to enter and then the error would be discovered at the deferred insection.

The case you cite DOES indicate why people with OPEN envelopes are routinely denied entry, not to mention that the papers could be changed for a different person or who knows what else could be added or subtracted.

Gary -

You cannot say that a person without an envelope will not be turned away. You simply cannot say that categorically.

The REASON I cited the Dublin case is to illustrate one of the responsibilities of the officers. One cannot magically make those responsibilities go away by dismissing them or worse yet by leading readers to believe that officers are 'uninformed'.

In the case you are hanging your argument on, there was quite a bit of time between the alien and her petitioner informing the officers of the missing documentation and the time she was waved through. We (readers here) have no way of knowing if the officers contacted the issuing consulate during that time. We really don't know how CBP came to the conclusion to allow the alien through. We don't know if they stamped her I-94. We know she has to return for a deferred inspection. In essence, it appears what you have here is an alien who has not LEGALLY been admitted in the paperwork-trail sense of the word. Not a place I particularly would like my loved one to be in.

At any rate - I only entered this discussion to clear up any misconceptions about the contents of the mysterious brown envelope having no purpose other than facilitation of a possible future status adjustment. The documents are necessary for a legal entry. Status adjustment cannot be achieved without documentation of that legal entry.

[rebeccajo 14]

Had the gentleman in Dublin not had his envelope, he would likely have been permitted to enter and then the error would be discovered at the deferred insection.

Just as an aside, I am wondering how this is a good situation?