Getting her out of vacation mode

[visaveteran 1]

Hmmm, comments about "Mail Order Brides", "Fat, Old, Bald Men", and "Pie and Guns". Also a complete tangent from the original topic. It must be the RUB Forum

Personally I also have nothing against American women and actually was looking for someone close to home, but most of the women my age were running to the woods as soon as the B & D words came up. Bankruptcy and Divorce. So I cast my net world wide and found the woman for me.

As for the term Mail Order Bride, whenever I hear someone use this term in regards to Oksana I am quick to tell them that she is a Made to Order Bride. And so that no one gets their back up from this comment, when I say this statement I mean that she is the perfect spouse for me. She doesn't put up with my BS and she understands me better than any ever has.

Given the MOB discussion, I find it ironic that the term is actually very American dating back to the time the miners and settlers of the west could order a wife via a catalog. So, our American sisters are kin to women who found husbands by posting ads in a catalog.

The discussion about pro or con views of American women calls out a key question. How many men on this forum had an American wife before moving on to a FSU fiancee or wife? Now that ought to tell us something.

For me, yes, I had an American wife first. How about you other dudes?

[HannahP 119]

Hmmm, comments about "Mail Order Brides", "Fat, Old, Bald Men", and "Pie and Guns". Also a complete tangent from the original topic. It must be the RUB Forum

Personally I also have nothing against American women and actually was looking for someone close to home, but most of the women my age were running to the woods as soon as the B & D words came up. Bankruptcy and Divorce. So I cast my net world wide and found the woman for me.

As for the term Mail Order Bride, whenever I hear someone use this term in regards to Oksana I am quick to tell them that she is a Made to Order Bride. And so that no one gets their back up from this comment, when I say this statement I mean that she is the perfect spouse for me. She doesn't put up with my BS and she understands me better than any ever has.

Given the MOB discussion, I find it ironic that the term is actually very American dating back to the time the miners and settlers of the west could order a wife via a catalog. So, our American sisters are kin to women who found husbands by posting ads in a catalog.

The discussion about pro or con views of American women calls out a key question. How many men on this forum had an American wife before moving on to a FSU fiancee or wife? Now that ought to tell us something.

For me, yes, I had an American wife first. How about you other dudes?

How odd that as a Sociologist, you would ask such a question where your sample population must have a bias...

edit -- no sampling bias here, but I did have an odd relationship. Oh, wait. You didn't ask those of us that marry Canadians...or Mexicans...

Edited October 26, 2009 by HannahP

[Chris_Жанна 11]

You can try to do chores around the house together with her so it doesn't sound like you are making an order (not implicating you do this). Subtlety and having a routine can work wonders sometimes, but this will take patients on your part. If you can have the patients to do all these things with her for a few weeks and get into a routine she might have an understanding that this is what you expect and start to run with it. It may be a bit Pavlovian, but, repetition really does have a subtle impact over time (i.e. The military, but in a completely different context). Even if told to do things nicely some ppl will perceive this as a command and can then become a power struggle or may not do what was requested to spite your authoritative position. If you will do this together it will be showing her what you expect in a nonverbal way and you will be doing it together and not with a power differential.

Like others said, she may be depressed. Think about it, how would you fair in her country? Talk to her see if she needs your help. This could be her inadvertently asking for help.

I hope it works out for you.

Good Luck

[Christi and Ian 24]

You know, re-reading this topic has been eye-opening for me.

I can only base my own opinions on what I think and what I do. I work, and, when my husband is here, I come home, cook dinner, clean the kitchen, get my daughter bathed and to bed, and don't think twice about it. Weekends I spend vacuuming & cleaning the rest of the house. I was most definitely raised to respect "the man is the head of the household", which may or may not be something that Southern women just believe.

Additionally, you can probably see from my picture that my hubby is obviously folliclely challenged...I happen to LOVE it...but that's just me...

As for withholding "bedroom privileges", I would never DREAM of doing this, as I would essentially be punishing myself. Sex isn't a chore...

Not being a man, however, I don't have the same perspective...but how can so many American men have the same perception of American women if there weren't some truth to it?

But, where there is one, there are others.

[BluesTraveler 0]

Thanks everyone for the comments. I am glad it has stirred the conversation soup.

In answer to a few of the questions. She does volunteer. I suggested different places to volunteer with and she found a place about 2 or 3 weeks after moving here. She has a pretty normal schedule there, although if she doesn't show up, it isn't a crime. She says she enjoys volunteering. She doesn't like doing things without earning a wage. So if she was working in an office setting and didn't earn any money, she would hate it.

She is younger (<40) but comes from a smaller city, not a village. I don't know if that truly impacts things.

Wasn't trying to turn the conversation into the same old, same old of; American women suck, American men are fat.

I have thrown rocks at girls but in my defense, I was 4 and she was 6, and family.

The comment about with holding bedroom privileges was in reply to Slim's comment that it was a two way street and either party could technically do it. It was said in jest. More along of the lines of, would a woman even notice if a guy was with holding bedroom privileges?

One thing I find hysterical is when some people comment and sermonize about you should do this or that and you should never do this or that, when they themselves are not even living with their significant other. Until you have been in the ocean, don't tell me about the waves.

The strategy I've undertaken is I put together a large list of things that need to be done. And I mean it really is a large list of things. >40 things. I didn't say, you do this, I will do that. They were all things we had talked about in passing with no serious weight to the conversation. I made the list right before dinner and she grabbed the list during dinner and read through it. Asking what some of the items are on the list.

Some of the items were clearly going to be done by me, change the oil in the car. Some items could be done by either one of us. She mentioned, you never asked me to do, xyz. Ok, I will play along. I did but maybe I didn't say it like, "do XYZ NOW!!!" Not my style, never will be.

I put the list on the fridge. Friday night she asked me, "what are we going to do this weekend?"

I replied, "I was just thinking about that, I was going over the list in my head, and I think I will do a,b,c,d,e,f, and g."

She was like, "You are going to do all of that this weekend?"

I said, "Yes I am going to do all of that before lunch on Saturday."

"WOW!!!"

I kept my word and started cracking out the items on the list. For the record I finished A-F before lunch and was halfway through G. She got the point and was working on J, K, O, and Q.

So, I think some posters comments on communication were correct. However it wasn't specific enough. We had talked about all of the items on the list, except 1 or 2. The part that was lacking, was I wasn't clarifying what I was expecting from here. I didn't implicitly state I want you to do J, K, O and Q. It would have felt as I was giving her orders, and that isn't constructive to my relationship. I allowed her to come to her own resolve, she could see the list of things that I needed or wanted done. Mind you, many items on the list were things she desired also. And she then say I was completing things and if she helped, then we would have time to do things together.

I don't want my spouse to be my maid. Although I do expect her to contribute 50% of the effort around the house. And in some cases maybe 66% because you have more time than I do.

[BluesTraveler 0]

I think VV may be correct too. A younger, professionally oriented woman from a big city there might have formed an opinion about life in America from tv or the web. I was told that Belarussians are taught (or were until very recently) that we live horrible lives, and are horrible people. My ex was as close to a communist as they come, for some one who works for both the Linguistic Institute and a private company . She was shocked at the comparatively good life we lead here, and honestly a little resentful for some reason. Some of the issues may have to do with how the OP met and courted his wife too, but I don't know the story (or can't remember). I met my ex through my work in Minsk at the time.

I found this to be true also. The George W. era really helped to stir the flames of anti-American attitude. I was told repeatedly by Belorussians that America is awful. I was shocked at some of the things that were said and how wrong their opinion was. Many of the comedians have an easy time making fun of America. It really is an easy target.

The other influence is that the American movies and television shows that are exported to Russia and Belarus tend to be some of the worst American movies. A judgment is made that ALL of America is like the television and movies that they see.

Most people don't understand that the reason a lot of the bad movies are exported to foreign countries are they are easy to dub or translate, the producers are trying to re-coup their monies, and LIFE IS NOT LIKE A MOVIE!!!

Not everyone in New York City lives in an apartment the size of the "Friends" apartment.

[Brad and Vika 129]

I think VV may be correct too. A younger, professionally oriented woman from a big city there might have formed an opinion about life in America from tv or the web. I was told that Belarussians are taught (or were until very recently) that we live horrible lives, and are horrible people. My ex was as close to a communist as they come, for some one who works for both the Linguistic Institute and a private company . She was shocked at the comparatively good life we lead here, and honestly a little resentful for some reason. Some of the issues may have to do with how the OP met and courted his wife too, but I don't know the story (or can't remember). I met my ex through my work in Minsk at the time.

I found this to be true also. The George W. era really helped to stir the flames of anti-American attitude. I was told repeatedly by Belorussians that America is awful. I was shocked at some of the things that were said and how wrong their opinion was. Many of the comedians have an easy time making fun of America. It really is an easy target.

The other influence is that the American movies and television shows that are exported to Russia and Belarus tend to be some of the worst American movies. A judgment is made that ALL of America is like the television and movies that they see.

Most people don't understand that the reason a lot of the bad movies are exported to foreign countries are they are easy to dub or translate, the producers are trying to re-coup their monies, and LIFE IS NOT LIKE A MOVIE!!!

Not everyone in New York City lives in an apartment the size of the "Friends" apartment.

Thanks Blues Traveler, for getting back to us. My ex was a huge fan of Sex in the City (called Sex in the Big City in Belarus). I don't remember how many times we talked about the show - her using it as an example of what she actually thought was American life or behavior, while I argued that it was 1) TV, and 2) set in New York City, and therefore qualifies as another planet for those of us in the American midwest. I also understand now that for any one to move from a big city like Minsk to a smaller city will no doubt cause adjustment problems. Sounds like you are doing fine with all of this - keep up the good work.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

and 3. No one can have that many omelets and fruity cocktails and still be that skinny

[slim 1,525]

Man, I miss a weekend and I miss a lot! Why can't you guys post all this good stuff at 2:00 AM on a Tuesday? Thanks to all for livening this RUB forum back up. It's been too long. Funny thing is... it's always the same thing that ends up getting us all energized again. This same topic.

And since it's always the same topic, that leads me to believe that maybe, just maybe, even if it's not true, or right or whatever.... maybe it's reality.

Maybe guys really do just want a hot housekeeper. Maybe women really do try to find the best "level" of guy they can stomach. And maybe, no matter how much we went to deny it or argue it's existence..... maybe it just is.

Agree or disagree, you can't argue with reality.

[BluesTraveler 0]

Agree or disagree, you can't argue with reality.

I reject your reality and insert my own!!!

[akdiver 3]

How many men on this forum had an American wife before moving on to a FSU fiancee or wife? Now that ought to tell us something.

What exactly does it tell anyone, other than someone has demonstrated their failure to preserve at least one marriage?

http://www.divorcerate.org/

According to enrichment journal on the divorce rate in America:

The divorce rate in America for first marriage is 41%

The divorce rate in America for second marriage is 60%

The divorce rate in America for third marriage is 73%

So, if you already had an American wife, we can expect that you have a much greater chance at divorcing the second one too (relative to someone on their first marriage).

The piece of information that is more useful is age at first marriage, along with education level. The theory is that the younger and dumber you are when you get married, the more likely you are to get divorced. I'm willing to bet large sums of money that the numbers will correlate well with this theory.

If the wife was a teenager at first marriage, the marriage is much more likely to dissolve than if the wife was at least 20 years of age at marriage. The first marriages of brides under age 18 years are the most likely to dissolve at all marital durations, followed by the marriages of women 18-19 years of age at marriage. Marriages of women at least age 20 years at marriage are much less likely to dissolve (table 3 and figure 1). After 10 years of marriage, 48 percent of marriages of women under age 18 years at marriage have disrupted compared with 40 percent of marriages of women who were 18-19 years of age at marriage, 29 percent of marriages of women who were 20-24 years of age at marriage, and 24 percent of marriages of women at least 25 years of age at marriage (CDC).

Edited October 27, 2009 by akdiver

[LvivLovers 39]

Visaveteran, FFS. I'm 23 and AMERICAN and I do things around the house AND go to work. Your generalizations are ridiculous.

eekee, to some of these men, american women are fat, disgusting, lazy, money-grubbing b!tches. it's obvious that some american woman who was once perfectly fine to marry or date completely fkd them over, and now they cover their insecurities with snide generalizations OR no young, sexy, american girl is blind enough to date them.

DISCLAIMER: i am not referring to some of the fine gentleman on here, just the frequent offenders.

yeah, how are we supposed to know who you are talking about? It could have been me at one time, because I used to say that American women were only good for rock throwing practice, but I do not say that anymore...really. Most of them are way to big to be challenging for that purpose. we need smaller targets!

hehehe I make joke.

oh gary- of course you're one of the offenders. i also remember a time when your purpose was to offer helpful advice to fellow vjers in functional forums. if i remember correctly, about a year ago someone posted a topic nominating you for mods. silly them. although you're quite knowledgeable of the visa process, many of your posts in RUB are in bad taste. congratulations on being one of the people to turn RUB into a hateful sausage party.

Hateful Sausage Party? You mind if I use that as the name of a band? That's a good one and I don't think it's taken yet.

Wow...this thread is entertaining...I don't know how I overlooked it for so long...playing catch up now.

[akdiver 3]

I'm willing to bet large sums of money that the numbers will correlate well with this theory.

And behold...

Age at marriage for those who divorce in the United States

--------------------------------------------------

Age Women Men

--------------------------------------------------

Under 20 years old 27.6% 11.7%

20 to 24 years old 36.6% 38.8%

25 to 29 years old 16.4% 22.3%

30 to 34 years old 8.5% 11.6%

35 to 39 years old 5.1% 6.5%

http://www.divorcepeers.com/statistics.htm Edited October 27, 2009 by akdiver

[akdiver 3]

Russian women also still believe in dressing nicely and using make-up EVERYDAY. They enjoy looking good if only just for their husband...no sloppy sweat pants or worn out jeans around the house. For me, this is one of those things that really contrasts Russian and American women in my many observations.

Wow - what a stereotype.

My Russian wife usually doesn't bother with makeup or fancy when she is going out, let alone around the house. She also doesn't need makeup or fancy clothes for me to consider her beautiful. I am SO THANKFUL she is confident enough in herself that she doesn't feel the need to waste her time with that stuff, and can focus her time on things that actually matter.

Edited October 27, 2009 by akdiver

[Danno 1,228]

Russian women also still believe in dressing nicely and using make-up EVERYDAY. They enjoy looking good if only just for their husband...no sloppy sweat pants or worn out jeans around the house. For me, this is one of those things that really contrasts Russian and American women in my many observations.

Wow - what a stereotype.

My Russian wife usually doesn't bother with makeup or fancy when she is going out, let alone around the house. She also doesn't need makeup or fancy clothes for me to consider her beautiful. I am SO THANKFUL she is confident enough in herself that she doesn't feel the need to waste her time with that stuff, and can focus her time on things that actually matter.

Sure it's a stereotype, but just because your wife doesn't fit it, doesn't make it less true (if in fact it is true).

I'm also not so sure "confidence" is the primary reason most women slog to the grocery store in Jammie bottoms and no make-up.

I suspect it is most often, another reason.

My wife is somewhere in the middle, which suites me perfect.