question re: juvenile record

[MJhawk 0]

So I'm trying to get paperwork ready for packet 3. I am the foreign fiancee from Ontario. I was reading about the criminal record check so I went to the police station and I don't have anything on my record but when I was 16 I was charged for possession of narcotics. So I went to the court house where I was charged and they said they have no records of the conviction then I went to the police station to ask about a junevile record and they said they have no record of it either. So if I answer yes to "Have you ever been charged or arrested" to disclose information and court records. Well the problem is nobody can find records not even the RCMP fingerprint criminal record check. They officer at the police station said I shouldn't say anything about previously being arrested because theres no proof. What do you think I should do?

oh and I'm applying for a K1 visa. Thanks

[Wyatt's Torch 45]

Well, I'm no expert, but I figure that if you have no criminal record on a criminal records check, you have no criminal record! The police are satisfied that you're not a former criminal, so I would say that in the eyes of the law at this time, you haven't been charged with any crimes. So I would say you're free and clear.

I had a minor incident when I was twelve, causing me to be fingerprinted etc., but the RCMP at the time assured me that my record would be cleared by the time I was done school. And sure enough, it was. There were no charges etc., mind you, but a note was definitely placed on my juvenile record at the time. So far as the law is concerned, there's sort of a "kids will be kids" view until you get past a certain age (seventeen, I think).

[canadian_wife 1,822]

This is tricky, I won't advise you to lie. If you were arrested then you were arrested, you should answer yes on that question. You can get a statement from the police station where you were arrested stating that records are not available from that time and that should suffice.

Good luck.

[Wyatt's Torch 45]

This is tricky, I won't advise you to lie. If you were arrested then you were arrested, you should answer yes on that question. You can get a statement from the police station where you were arrested stating that records are not available from that time and that should suffice.

Good luck.

Well, there's a bit of a difference between being charged and being arrested. It gets into legal nitty-gritty about the juvenile code in Canada, but ultimately, in the eyes of the law there is a difference between being charged as a juvenile and charged as an adult. Legally speaking, now that he's an adult, he was "never charged" as the records are expunged. In theory, not a single person in the world can prove that he was.

But I'm no lawyer and this is just an educated opinion, nothing more.

[MJhawk 0]

Thanks for all your advice, I was really concerned about saying I was arrested because I couldn't submit any court records. But I guess I could go to the police station and court house and get them to write up something. But on the other hand if I said I was charged with possession they will assume that I have smoked when I was younger which will affect my medical and interview in Montreal and is an automatic denial.

[Ontarkie 14,221]

you will have to go to the court house and give them the dates the best you can, and they will have to look in their really big books to find out where the records are stored they will get a copy for you it will take a bit. YOu wont be in the computers and I bet that is all they looked at. You may have to tell em its for immagration to get them to look harder.

THe way the forms are worded you must be carefull of your answers, cause it can bite you in the butt. The US doesn't care if they are sealed you need it. Its not Canada's laws you need to worry about its the US laws you have to follow. The guy next to me had to show his juvenil record in Montreal they do want it and will ask for it.

Go to the RCMP get and fingure print record check done you need this one

Edited October 21, 2009 by Ontarkie

[MJhawk 0]

I already go the RCMP fingerprint record and it shows nothing. I went to the court and told them it was re: immigration and she said there is absolutely no way she can find the file unless I have a case number and then maybe she can find it in archieves. but she said since it was 10 years ago they won't have the records.

[Ontarkie 14,221]

I know from my own fight at the court house getting them to find your name in a huge book by dates is a pain but when I brought in the form asking for them to give me a formal letter saying i had no record she totally changed her tune and found it. Mine was 16yrs old they had it buried in Toronto somewhere.

I did the RCMP record check also showed nothing the court record is still needed, you will be asked the same questions through out this whole process right till naturalization

Edited October 21, 2009 by Ontarkie

[antda 13]

Hi MJhawk,

I don't know about the K1 visa...But I can tell you that you cannot lie and not discolose about your criminal records (even though it was from junevile records), as immigration officials will ask for such at all stages of the immigration game.

Take for example, the AOS, I-751, and N-400 stages of the immigration game, which they specifically state:

1) If you have ever been arrested or detained by any law enforcement officer for any reason and no charges were filed, bring:

An official, certified statement from the arresting agency or applicable court indicating that no charges were filed.

2) If you have ever been arrested ir detained by any law enforcement officer for any reason and charges were filed, bring:

An original or certified copy of the record(s) arrest and the complete court disposition (dismissal order, conviction record, or aquittal order).

3) If you have been convicted or place in an alternative sentencing program or rehabilitative program, bring:

a) The sentencing record of each incident and,

b ) Evidence that you completed your sentence, such as probation record, parole record, or evidence that you completed an alternative program or rehabilatative program.

Copies must certified copies from the issuing agency.

4) If you have ever had any arrest or conviction vacated, set aside, sealed, expunged, or otherwise removed from your records, bring:

An original or certified copy of the court order vacating, setting aside, sealing, expunging, or otherwise removing the arrest or conviction.

In other words, you might or might not need it now for the K1, but you're going to need it later, for the rest of the immigration stages. So you might as well search for the court-certified records now (and get extra copies of the certified records too, as originals are needed for all stages), especially since you're in Canada and it is easier to serach for such while you are there and can inquire about them while in Canada instead of in the USA.

If it doesn't show up with the RCMP records, then, what others have suggested too, go to the courthouse and/or clerk's office, and see if they have a court-certified record there. I'm sure a paper trail exists somewhere, even though it doesn't show up on the computer since it was such a long time ago.

Hope this helps. Good luck on the rest of your journey. And good luck with finding those records too.

Ant

So I'm trying to get paperwork ready for packet 3. I am the foreign fiancee from Ontario. I was reading about the criminal record check so I went to the police station and I don't have anything on my record but when I was 16 I was charged for possession of narcotics. So I went to the court house where I was charged and they said they have no records of the conviction then I went to the police station to ask about a junevile record and they said they have no record of it either. So if I answer yes to "Have you ever been charged or arrested" to disclose information and court records. Well the problem is nobody can find records not even the RCMP fingerprint criminal record check. They officer at the police station said I shouldn't say anything about previously being arrested because theres no proof. What do you think I should do?

oh and I'm applying for a K1 visa. Thanks

Edited October 21, 2009 by Ant+D+A

[Ontarkie 14,221]

I just wish I got more copies, since they kept the one I sent with AOS, you would think since they have it already you wouldnt need to send in another copy at the next step. At least I have time to get more copies.

[MJhawk 0]

Another problem is I'm in the U.S for the next 6 months with my fiance. I'll be returning home in October and hopefully by then my interview will be scheduled. So I won't have enough time to even get the court records if they can even find them

[antda 13]

Hi Everyone,

Yeah, you would think that if you sent it to them once, that they wouldn't want it again. Unfortunately, that's not the case with immigration....They want stuff over and over, regardless of what it is...It's like they have never seen your file before or remember all those years that you've had to deal with them. Oh the wasted time, effort, and money, to resend stuff they already have...

On top of that, court records have to be court-certified originals, and not photocopies, for each stage of the game...So if you can, get as many records from the court now in Canada, as it will save you the time of having to scramble for them again and again later on, when you are in the USA....

As for not being in Canada, maybe you can ask someone else to pick them up for you? If not, just go as soon as possible back to Canada to pick up such, and when you get those records, pick up as many court-certified originals as you can.....

Remember: tell the truth about these records, and don't like about such either.

Hope this helps too. Good luck on your journeys.

Ant

I just wish I got more copies, since they kept the one I sent with AOS, you would think since they have it already you wouldnt need to send in another copy at the next step. At least I have time to get more copies.

Another problem is I'm in the U.S for the next 6 months with my fiance. I'll be returning home in October and hopefully by then my interview will be scheduled. So I won't have enough time to even get the court records if they can even find them

Edited October 21, 2009 by Ant+D+A

[Ontarkie 14,221]

Since your in the US that is my guess why your getting the run around at the court house. I know every time i called to get the court record was they didn't have anything on file. One person even said I could answer the question in packet 3 with a no saying I had no record. I found out later that would of been a big mistake. It wasn't till I went into the court house and showed them what I needed the court record or a letter from them stating I had no record. That is when they actually looked in their books and she found it.

I think there is also a spot on the RCMP wedsite that has a form to unlock sealed records maybe that can help you while in the US. The only other thing I can think of is keep calling the court house where it all happended at and keep pushing it.

If they didn't want sealed records they would'nt be wording it that way on the forms you need to fill out and swear to being truthfull. Its stressfull enough going to the interview you don't want this bitting you in the butt later.

[canadian_wife 1,822]

Well, there's a bit of a difference between being charged and being arrested.

I couldn't agree more! However, the question on the form asks if you have ever been arrested or charged (according to the OP's wording of the question on the form). So to my original post - he should answer yes since he was arrested. The question does not discriminate between juvenial or adult arrests, it says 'ever'.

Edited October 21, 2009 by canadian_wife

[Wyatt's Torch 45]

Well, there's a bit of a difference between being charged and being arrested.

I couldn't agree more! However, the question on the form asks if you have ever been arrested or charged (according to the OP's wording of the question on the form). So to my original post - he should answer yes since he was arrested. The question does not discriminate between juvenial or adult arrests, it says 'ever'.

My apologies. It's very true.

I probably shouldn't have ventured into this thread, as I was looking at it from a legal perspective, as opposed to an immigration perspective.