MUSLIMS SEEK TO KILL PATRIOT ACT

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

You've got a credible source for what you're trying to convey here? I'm all ears.

your idea of credible would be it has to be blessed by obama himself before you'd believe it.

How about a letter from the FBI?

http://www.nefafoundation.org/miscellaneou...er_04282009.pdf

he'll discount that too - he's got some great blinders.

Where's the indictment in that letter? It speaks clearly of the un-indicted co-conspirator and points out that the FBI's decision to sever official contact isn't to be mistaken as a wholesale judgment of the organization or it's membership. Nice try but ... next.

you've gotten way out in the weeds again. here ya go, this should refresh your memory about what this conversation is about:

CAIR has been tied to islamic extremists, and funding raised through CAIR has supported terrorist activities. this is a well documented fact.

The organization would have been dismantled if that was true.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

You've got a credible source for what you're trying to convey here? I'm all ears.

your idea of credible would be it has to be blessed by obama himself before you'd believe it.

How about a letter from the FBI?

http://www.nefafoundation.org/miscellaneou...er_04282009.pdf

he'll discount that too - he's got some great blinders.

Where's the indictment in that letter? It speaks clearly of the un-indicted co-conspirator and points out that the FBI's decision to sever official contact isn't to be mistaken as a wholesale judgment of the organization or it's membership. Nice try but ... next.

you've gotten way out in the weeds again. here ya go, this should refresh your memory about what this conversation is about:

CAIR has been tied to islamic extremists, and funding raised through CAIR has supported terrorist activities. this is a well documented fact.

The organization would have been dismantled if that was true.

Here is all the information from the second trial, if you want to see how CAIR was involved with Hamas.

In preparation for the second Holy Land Foundation trial, prosecutors filed a second supplemental trial brief laying out their argument. Notably, prosecutors again will delve into the expansive Muslim Brotherhood network in the U.S.: "the defendants, through the HLF, were engaged in a conspiracy to support Hamas through their membership in the Palestine Committee, an organization created by the U.S. branch of the Muslim Brotherhood to assist Hamas, which itself is the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. Along with the HLF, whose function was to raise funds on behalf of Hamas, the Palestine Committee oversaw the Islamic Association for Palestine ('IAP'), the United Association for Studies & Research ('UASR') and, later on, the Council on American Islamic Relations ('CAIR')."

http://www1.nefafoundation.org/hlfdocs2.html

[alienlovechild 75]

I am not worried about CAIR - it's an organization representing some of the Muslims in this country which make up a whopping 0.6% of the population - not exactly of much significance. When right wing nuts in Congress slam the drums on that organization based on ridiculous nonsense then I am think there some reason to worry. Congress should not indulge on the wingnuttery that World Nut Daily represents.

As for the small number of Muslims in the military - you know, I don't even know why any such stats are kept. It's quite irrelevant since, contrary to what Newsmax believes, we don't actually have any Christian Armed Forces. That premise is way off track and any considerations based on it are nothing but a load of #######. You may choose to entertain such nonsense but don't expect any reasonable person to do so.

Talk about paranoid. What exactly do think will happen to CAIR or Muslims in America? C'mon out with it. I doubt the Democratic controlled Congress will do jack so all your fears are baseless and senseless.

The premise that we need native speakers in Afghanistan and Iraq is hardly ####### but your couldn't come with any defense of groups like CAIR doing nothing in wartime. Nobody claimed there was a Christian armed forces except you.

[NickD 202]

Title of this thread is the Muslims seek to kill the patriot act, assume this is the American Patriot Act that had only one descending vote by our Senator Feingold. His reason, he read it, based on that, I read it too, did you? Some 80 odd pages of unconstitutional garbage on the theoretical side, on the practical side, created a lot of difficulties for us when I brought my wife over her.

Problem is, we just do not vote for a president, when he takes office invites 10,000 idiots to take over key government agencies with the advantage of having a "Yes Sir" congress. They screw up, we pay the price. And God, are we paying the price in more ways than one. Democrats were in on it too by running crazy and long face against him.

It's not only the Muslims against the APC, I am with them on this. And how can a guy even use the word, Patriot and he and his clones broke over 693 known laws of the US Constitution? Best part is, they are getting away with it.

[nowhereman 1]

I don't think you can blame the left for this one... there is a lot of anti-muslim sentiment in America now & it can & often does constitute a slippery slope. If say 10% of a certain group (random %, no idea how accurate it is in this particular situation) is guilty of some sort of heinous act (i.e. muslims who are terrorists) you can't condemn the entire group. Granted when I fly & see a Muslim I'll pay extra attention to him & if that's profiling so be it, but at the same time I understand that the vast majority of Muslims are decent people.

I don't get the anti-Muslim angle as there's relatively few violent incidents here and one death I can think of during the last 8 years of war in Muslim lands. Americans have access to a lot of guns but I don't see Muslims riding around in armored vehicles in the U.S.

It's ok to consider all anti-Obama protestors as potentially violent because McVeigh blew up the Fed building on OK City in 1995. That's what we've been told anyway.

I guarantee if Americans were polled and asked if their opinions about Muslims were generally favorable or generally unfavorable it would be a landslide for the latter choice. As for anti-Obama protestors of course that includes the far right, but it also includes lots of people who aren't extremists. In fact the far left isn't too fond of Obama either. My point is that something like 45% of Americans (the number of course fluctuates) do not approve of Obama & that includes individuals across the political spectrum.

[NickD 202]

I don't think you can blame the left for this one... there is a lot of anti-muslim sentiment in America now & it can & often does constitute a slippery slope. If say 10% of a certain group (random %, no idea how accurate it is in this particular situation) is guilty of some sort of heinous act (i.e. muslims who are terrorists) you can't condemn the entire group. Granted when I fly & see a Muslim I'll pay extra attention to him & if that's profiling so be it, but at the same time I understand that the vast majority of Muslims are decent people.

I don't get the anti-Muslim angle as there's relatively few violent incidents here and one death I can think of during the last 8 years of war in Muslim lands. Americans have access to a lot of guns but I don't see Muslims riding around in armored vehicles in the U.S.

It's ok to consider all anti-Obama protestors as potentially violent because McVeigh blew up the Fed building on OK City in 1995. That's what we've been told anyway.

I guarantee if Americans were polled and asked if their opinions about Muslims were generally favorable or generally unfavorable it would be a landslide for the latter choice. As for anti-Obama protestors of course that includes the far right, but it also includes lots of people who aren't extremists. In fact the far left isn't too fond of Obama either. My point is that something like 45% of Americans (the number of course fluctuates) do not approve of Obama & that includes individuals across the political spectrum.

I can't even count the number of people who's opinion is changed strictly by the results of polls, they figure the majority of the people or even a sizable minority can't be wrong. Pollsters count on this by taking just a small selected sample.

Not easy living in a country where people can't think for themselves nor take the effort to even look into a subject.

Also in a country where people are too stupid to step on the brake pedal before shifting into gear, or pour windshield washer fluid in their AT dipstick hole. So now have problems getting a dead battery vehicle out of park and have to crawl under the car to check the AT fluild level. Same with politics, living in a country loaded with idiots, but screw that, let's talk about getting tats.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You've got a credible source for what you're trying to convey here? I'm all ears.

your idea of credible would be it has to be blessed by obama himself before you'd believe it.

How about a letter from the FBI?

http://www.nefafoundation.org/miscellaneou...er_04282009.pdf

he'll discount that too - he's got some great blinders.

Where's the indictment in that letter? It speaks clearly of the un-indicted co-conspirator and points out that the FBI's decision to sever official contact isn't to be mistaken as a wholesale judgment of the organization or it's membership. Nice try but ... next.

you've gotten way out in the weeds again. here ya go, this should refresh your memory about what this conversation is about:

CAIR has been tied to islamic extremists, and funding raised through CAIR has supported terrorist activities. this is a well documented fact.

The organization would have been dismantled if that was true.

Here is all the information from the second trial, if you want to see how CAIR was involved with Hamas.

In preparation for the second Holy Land Foundation trial, prosecutors filed a second supplemental trial brief laying out their argument. Notably, prosecutors again will delve into the expansive Muslim Brotherhood network in the U.S.: "the defendants, through the HLF, were engaged in a conspiracy to support Hamas through their membership in the Palestine Committee, an organization created by the U.S. branch of the Muslim Brotherhood to assist Hamas, which itself is the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. Along with the HLF, whose function was to raise funds on behalf of Hamas, the Palestine Committee oversaw the Islamic Association for Palestine ('IAP'), the United Association for Studies & Research ('UASR') and, later on, the Council on American Islamic Relations ('CAIR')."

http://www1.nefafoundation.org/hlfdocs2.html

And yet, still not even so much as an indictment, let a lone a conviction.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You've got a credible source for what you're trying to convey here? I'm all ears.

your idea of credible would be it has to be blessed by obama himself before you'd believe it.

How about a letter from the FBI?

http://www.nefafoundation.org/miscellaneou...er_04282009.pdf

he'll discount that too - he's got some great blinders.

Where's the indictment in that letter? It speaks clearly of the un-indicted co-conspirator and points out that the FBI's decision to sever official contact isn't to be mistaken as a wholesale judgment of the organization or it's membership. Nice try but ... next.

you've gotten way out in the weeds again. here ya go, this should refresh your memory about what this conversation is about:

CAIR has been tied to islamic extremists, and funding raised through CAIR has supported terrorist activities. this is a well documented fact.

The organization would have been dismantled if that was true.

I'm still waiting to see where the organization has violated any laws and where it has been brought up on charges and convicted for any such infractions.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Here is all the information from the second trial, if you want to see how CAIR was involved with Hamas.

In preparation for the second Holy Land Foundation trial, prosecutors filed a second supplemental trial brief laying out their argument. Notably, prosecutors again will delve into the expansive Muslim Brotherhood network in the U.S.: "the defendants, through the HLF, were engaged in a conspiracy to support Hamas through their membership in the Palestine Committee, an organization created by the U.S. branch of the Muslim Brotherhood to assist Hamas, which itself is the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. Along with the HLF, whose function was to raise funds on behalf of Hamas, the Palestine Committee oversaw the Islamic Association for Palestine ('IAP'), the United Association for Studies & Research ('UASR') and, later on, the Council on American Islamic Relations ('CAIR')."

http://www1.nefafoundation.org/hlfdocs2.html

And yet, still not even so much as an indictment, let a lone a conviction.

It's all the same people, dude! Three out of the five people convicted in the second trial founded CAIR.

Give it up!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Here is all the information from the second trial, if you want to see how CAIR was involved with Hamas.

In preparation for the second Holy Land Foundation trial, prosecutors filed a second supplemental trial brief laying out their argument. Notably, prosecutors again will delve into the expansive Muslim Brotherhood network in the U.S.: "the defendants, through the HLF, were engaged in a conspiracy to support Hamas through their membership in the Palestine Committee, an organization created by the U.S. branch of the Muslim Brotherhood to assist Hamas, which itself is the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. Along with the HLF, whose function was to raise funds on behalf of Hamas, the Palestine Committee oversaw the Islamic Association for Palestine ('IAP'), the United Association for Studies & Research ('UASR') and, later on, the Council on American Islamic Relations ('CAIR')."

http://www1.nefafoundation.org/hlfdocs2.html

And yet, still not even so much as an indictment, let a lone a conviction.

It's all the same people, dude! Three out of the five people convicted in the second trial founded CAIR.

Give it up!

Well then, let's start an investigation of the GOP and Democratic Party infiltrating Congress. After all, members of both parties have been convicted of crimes in the past. Hence, both organizations should not be anywhere near the center of power.

[justashooter 430]

you been ###### slapped dog. roll over and take it.

[nowhereman 1]

I don't think you can blame the left for this one... there is a lot of anti-muslim sentiment in America now & it can & often does constitute a slippery slope. If say 10% of a certain group (random %, no idea how accurate it is in this particular situation) is guilty of some sort of heinous act (i.e. muslims who are terrorists) you can't condemn the entire group. Granted when I fly & see a Muslim I'll pay extra attention to him & if that's profiling so be it, but at the same time I understand that the vast majority of Muslims are decent people.

I don't get the anti-Muslim angle as there's relatively few violent incidents here and one death I can think of during the last 8 years of war in Muslim lands. Americans have access to a lot of guns but I don't see Muslims riding around in armored vehicles in the U.S.

It's ok to consider all anti-Obama protestors as potentially violent because McVeigh blew up the Fed building on OK City in 1995. That's what we've been told anyway.

I guarantee if Americans were polled and asked if their opinions about Muslims were generally favorable or generally unfavorable it would be a landslide for the latter choice. As for anti-Obama protestors of course that includes the far right, but it also includes lots of people who aren't extremists. In fact the far left isn't too fond of Obama either. My point is that something like 45% of Americans (the number of course fluctuates) do not approve of Obama & that includes individuals across the political spectrum.

I can't even count the number of people who's opinion is changed strictly by the results of polls, they figure the majority of the people or even a sizable minority can't be wrong. Pollsters count on this by taking just a small selected sample.

Not easy living in a country where people can't think for themselves nor take the effort to even look into a subject.

Also in a country where people are too stupid to step on the brake pedal before shifting into gear, or pour windshield washer fluid in their AT dipstick hole. So now have problems getting a dead battery vehicle out of park and have to crawl under the car to check the AT fluild level. Same with politics, living in a country loaded with idiots, but screw that, let's talk about getting tats.

Idiots are like bad drivers... there are plenty of them but nobody thinks they are one.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

you been ###### slapped dog. roll over and take it.

On the contrary, none of you guys has yet substantiated any charges or convictions of the organization that the wing nuts of the Republican Party seek to investigate for what amounts to lobbying efforts on behalf of the population they represent. You guys have failed.

[merijan 0]

CAIR has been tied to islamic extremists, and funding raised through CAIR has supported terrorist activities. this is a well documented fact.

PLEASE post all your "Documentation " and FACTS.... go ahead....

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

Here is all the information from the second trial, if you want to see how CAIR was involved with Hamas.

In preparation for the second Holy Land Foundation trial, prosecutors filed a second supplemental trial brief laying out their argument. Notably, prosecutors again will delve into the expansive Muslim Brotherhood network in the U.S.: "the defendants, through the HLF, were engaged in a conspiracy to support Hamas through their membership in the Palestine Committee, an organization created by the U.S. branch of the Muslim Brotherhood to assist Hamas, which itself is the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. Along with the HLF, whose function was to raise funds on behalf of Hamas, the Palestine Committee oversaw the Islamic Association for Palestine ('IAP'), the United Association for Studies & Research ('UASR') and, later on, the Council on American Islamic Relations ('CAIR')."

http://www1.nefafoundation.org/hlfdocs2.html

And yet, still not even so much as an indictment, let a lone a conviction.

It's all the same people, dude! Three out of the five people convicted in the second trial founded CAIR.

Give it up!

Well then, let's start an investigation of the GOP and Democratic Party infiltrating Congress. After all, members of both parties have been convicted of crimes in the past. Hence, both organizations should not be anywhere near the center of power.