Sweeping health bill passes Senate panel (SFC)

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

Germany actually manages to provide very generous social services (including a very good public healthcare system with supplemental private insurance) while keeping the infrastructure in a very good condition.

sounds like a great country for the lazy.

in other words, a socialist paradise.

the german g/f i had about a decade ago complained constantly about the co-pays going up and up and up.

Healthcare costs in U.S. vs. Germany (2006)

UNITED STATES: 15.9 pct of GDP, $6,657 per capita

GERMANY: 10.7 pct of GDP, $3,628 per capita

Coverage US vs. Germany (2008):

UNITED STATES: 82%

GERMANY: 99.8%

so? she still complained about it, regardless of whatever figures you can cite.

until congress raises the yearly payment by 12 times.....but i don't expect you'd be aware of that.

I've read there are proposed changes. Right now that's all they are - proposed. You know and I know you've got advocacy groups lobbying to protect veterans interest. Again - better than what the average citizen has. With regular commercial coverage the company can just jack the premiums, co-pays, out of pockets and deductibles at whim.

we had advocacy groups before, and we got tricare. hell hath no fury like a budget minded congress.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Germany actually manages to provide very generous social services (including a very good public healthcare system with supplemental private insurance) while keeping the infrastructure in a very good condition.

sounds like a great country for the lazy.

in other words, a socialist paradise.

the german g/f i had about a decade ago complained constantly about the co-pays going up and up and up.

Healthcare costs in U.S. vs. Germany (2006)

UNITED STATES: 15.9 pct of GDP, $6,657 per capita

GERMANY: 10.7 pct of GDP, $3,628 per capita

Coverage US vs. Germany (2008):

UNITED STATES: 82%

GERMANY: 99.8%

so? she still complained about it, regardless of whatever figures you can cite.

I don't doubt it. People in Germany were used to pay nothing out-of-pocket - not for doctor visits and not for meds. Now that they do - it started with the meds and was then extended to doctor visits - they complain about it. Just putting it in perspective. Works well, I must say. When I tell my friends and family how it works here, the complaining stops at once.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

When I tell my friends and family how it works here, the complaining stops at once.

Human nature being what it is, that is a little difficult to believe

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

When I tell my friends and family how it works here, the complaining stops at once.

Human nature being what it is, that is a little difficult to believe

Yeah but you can speak for first hand experience too. After the experiences I've had here under the private health system - it makes you grateful for the NHS.

Germany actually manages to provide very generous social services (including a very good public healthcare system with supplemental private insurance) while keeping the infrastructure in a very good condition.

sounds like a great country for the lazy.

in other words, a socialist paradise.

the german g/f i had about a decade ago complained constantly about the co-pays going up and up and up.

Healthcare costs in U.S. vs. Germany (2006)

UNITED STATES: 15.9 pct of GDP, $6,657 per capita

GERMANY: 10.7 pct of GDP, $3,628 per capita

Coverage US vs. Germany (2008):

UNITED STATES: 82%

GERMANY: 99.8%

so? she still complained about it, regardless of whatever figures you can cite.

I don't doubt it. People in Germany were used to pay nothing out-of-pocket - not for doctor visits and not for meds. Now that they do - it started with the meds and was then extended to doctor visits - they complain about it. Just putting it in perspective. Works well, I must say. When I tell my friends and family how it works here, the complaining stops at once.

Yeah the prescription charge is about 7 or 8 euros there right?

Sure beats those insurance commercials where two guys pay wildly different amounts of money for the exact same thing.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Yeah but you can speak for first hand experience too. After the experiences I've had here under the private health system - it makes you grateful for the NHS.

There's an article in the telegraph that says the NHS is introducing euthanasia "by stealth".

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

When I tell my friends and family how it works here, the complaining stops at once.

Human nature being what it is, that is a little difficult to believe

You know what I mean, don't you?

[Joseph & Ana 0]

The only form of socialized medicine at all in the US is administered through the VA.

Impossible. Ask Joe. Socialized medicine will never pass.

Well - it won't - because that's not what is being proposed.

That doesn't change the fact though that Joe doesn't understand what socialized medicine is.

I know, I know. My point was that socialized medicine actually has passed long ago and exists in the US today. Same goes for public health insurance schemes. So, to make a claim that either will never pass is simply ignoring the very reality we live in.

Reinhard - We don't have socialized medicine in the US. Medicare is not socialized medicine. It's a government administered payer.

I am aware of the difference. In the VA system, however, we have a model where the government administers and delivers health care - i.e. the docs and nurses actually work for the government. That's what one might refer to as a "socialized medicine" scheme somewhat similar to the UK's NHS.

Again, no one has a problem with administering care to our nation's veterans. I really don't know anyone. My dad works at the Ann Arbor VA hospital, and is a beneficiary of it. I think most people see the difference. The VA isn't in competition with private insurance.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I don't have an hmo, but I do have a ppo. And I'm a usc, but I don't know about being 'average'.

That said... I don't moan about copays. I know many do, I don't mind them. I don't even mind paying the ever increasing premiums (since they're still affordable). What I mind is the goddamn games insurance companies play when there's a large claim. I've been paying premiums since I started working full time in 1999. Stop fuсking with me already and just pay the fuсking claim.

I don't mind the co-pays or the premiums, but I do mind the after service charges that you can't predict or budget for.

Yup.

I should add that I think the co-pays are sufficient to encourage people not to overconsume and go to the doctor for every little thing, but the after service charges are enough to put you off entirely.

I still can't believe they billed me $300 to have a nasal blood vessel cauterised. That's routine!

Heck, you could do that yourself. They should sell cauterization kits at CVS.

Just buy a wood/leather burning set at your local crafts store.

[rebeccajo 14]

The only form of socialized medicine at all in the US is administered through the VA.

Impossible. Ask Joe. Socialized medicine will never pass.

Well - it won't - because that's not what is being proposed.

That doesn't change the fact though that Joe doesn't understand what socialized medicine is.

I know, I know. My point was that socialized medicine actually has passed long ago and exists in the US today. Same goes for public health insurance schemes. So, to make a claim that either will never pass is simply ignoring the very reality we live in.

Reinhard - We don't have socialized medicine in the US. Medicare is not socialized medicine. It's a government administered payer.

I am aware of the difference. In the VA system, however, we have a model where the government administers and delivers health care - i.e. the docs and nurses actually work for the government. That's what one might refer to as a "socialized medicine" scheme somewhat similar to the UK's NHS.

Again, no one has a problem with administering care to our nation's veterans. I really don't know anyone. My dad works at the Ann Arbor VA hospital, and is a beneficiary of it. I think most people see the difference. The VA isn't in competition with private insurance.

Joseph -

The only reason we started talking about the VA in the first place is to get you to realize that NOTHING in the proposed legislation is Socialized Medicine.

So stop calling it that.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Obey or else!

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Germany actually manages to provide very generous social services (including a very good public healthcare system with supplemental private insurance) while keeping the infrastructure in a very good condition.

sounds like a great country for the lazy.

in other words, a socialist paradise.

the german g/f i had about a decade ago complained constantly about the co-pays going up and up and up.

Healthcare costs in U.S. vs. Germany (2006)

UNITED STATES: 15.9 pct of GDP, $6,657 per capita

GERMANY: 10.7 pct of GDP, $3,628 per capita

Coverage US vs. Germany (2008):

UNITED STATES: 82%

GERMANY: 99.8%

so? she still complained about it, regardless of whatever figures you can cite.

until congress raises the yearly payment by 12 times.....but i don't expect you'd be aware of that.

I've read there are proposed changes. Right now that's all they are - proposed. You know and I know you've got advocacy groups lobbying to protect veterans interest. Again - better than what the average citizen has. With regular commercial coverage the company can just jack the premiums, co-pays, out of pockets and deductibles at whim.

we had advocacy groups before, and we got tricare. hell hath no fury like a budget minded congress.

...that hates guns, and the people that carry them.

When I tell my friends and family how it works here, the complaining stops at once.

Human nature being what it is, that is a little difficult to believe

They are Germans, after all: "You vill stop complaining!" should work.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yeah but you can speak for first hand experience too. After the experiences I've had here under the private health system - it makes you grateful for the NHS.

There's an article in the telegraph that says the NHS is introducing euthanasia "by stealth".

Well there's no shortage of exaggeration where that's concerned - I believe that column described a couple of badly handled cases in the Liverpool area. NHS policy actually differs across the country - in terms of specific initiatives.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Yeah but you can speak for first hand experience too. After the experiences I've had here under the private health system - it makes you grateful for the NHS.

There's an article in the telegraph that says the NHS is introducing euthanasia "by stealth".

Well there's no shortage of exaggeration where that's concerned - I believe that column described a couple of badly handled cases in the Liverpool area. NHS policy actually differs across the country - in terms of specific initiatives.

You can bet that under a socialist medicine scheme run by Obama, every effort will be made to euthanize God-fearing Southern Republicans.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Yeah but you can speak for first hand experience too. After the experiences I've had here under the private health system - it makes you grateful for the NHS.

There's an article in the telegraph that says the NHS is introducing euthanasia "by stealth".

Well there's no shortage of exaggeration where that's concerned - I believe that column described a couple of badly handled cases in the Liverpool area. NHS policy actually differs across the country - in terms of specific initiatives.

You can bet that under a socialist medicine scheme run by Obama, every effort will be made to euthanize God-fearing Southern Republicans.

Well, as long as he leaves LCWN's alone, I am good with that.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Left Coast Wrinkly Neanderthals?