What constitutes work?

[kizza 1]

Being a freelancer as well, I asked this question to a community Immigration Help Center... thingy. I was told that if you earn money, while in the U.S... It's work. It sucks too, because if I could freaking work, it would help us tons.

No kidding. Plus I worry about neglecting my clients for all that time.

I just feel like it's all about semantics. Still in that document I was refering to earlier, describing different classes of visa and their right to work or not, under:

Nonimmigrants Not Authorized to Work

Other nonimmigrant categories are not eligible for work authorization:

In general, persons entering the United States with a B nonimmigrant visa may not accept employment while in the United States. Persons entering temporarily for business must be conducting business for a foreign company and must maintain a home in a foreign country to which they intend to return. However, B nonimmigrants are permitted to accept honorarium payments and associated incidental expenses for “usual academic activity.”286

I know this is a different class of visa, but although they are not authorized to work, they are allowed to conduct business.... erm....

[Matt & Bing 56]

thanks for the replies so far. Very interested in getting people's opinions.

As roughsweet said, why would it matter if im still earning money from a different country? I feel like Im showing even more that I am not at risk of being a public charge. Plus I imagine I would pay taxes on that income. win-win situation, no?

So far, I've only skimmed through the Temporary Migration to the United States: Nonimmigrant Admissions Under U.S. Immigration Law U.S. and the wording seems to vary which still makes me wonder. They talk for instance about "accepting employment while in the US", which wouldnt be my case... (in case this interests anybody else http://www.uscis.gov/files/nativedocuments...rants_2006.pdf)

If somebody can explain WHY I cant earn money, where ever it comes from, please do. Id just like to understand.

I understand why you'd like clarification on this, and at first glance, I totally agree... it certainly looks like a grey area, but... The US tax you on 'worldwide' earnings, so it WOULD matter.

Yes exactly right - you are taxed on any and all income no matter if paid in Canadian dollars, US dollars, whatever. If its taxable, it would be considered working I assume - but an interesting question.

[TBoneTX 45,266]

He asked for opinions, TboneTX, and that's exactly what I gave about Canadian money vs. American income constituting work.

An answer is what is needed. What good is an opinion if it's wrong information, or simply a nebulous way to consume bandwidth when a definite answer is what's needed?

And I made a simple mistake about DOS and USCIS.

That's far beyond a simple mistake -- it's fundamental, and time-wasting (at minimum) if anyone relies on it.

And I apologize, oh high and mighty VJ expert. I hardly think he's "relying" on me. He WANTED opinions. Opinions are, by nature, speculation.

See first answer above.

You and your cronies

Name one person here who is my "crony." Do it now, and be specific with names and rationales.

who live to troll this site and feel high and mighty

Please cite your objective evidence for this conclusion. Do it now, and be specific -- or is this more "valuable speculation"?

need to get over yourselves.

I will decide what needs to be "gotten over," thank you.

Your "advice" is often full of the same opinions and speculation that you so often criticize others for.

Its primary basis, most times, is experience. Imagine this: some VJ members intentionally do not post anything to a thread when they know nothing about a subject!

But I guess no one is entitled to an opinion on here except you guys.

Next time, please proofread twice, post once, and have something substantial to offer. That's the least that can be expected of someone who wishes to be entitled to an opinion that is worthy of respect, si man?

[Kittyfang 6]

He asked for opinions, TboneTX, and that's exactly what I gave about Canadian money vs. American income constituting work.

An answer is what is needed. What good is an opinion if it's wrong information, or simply a nebulous way to consume bandwidth when a definite answer is what's needed?

And I made a simple mistake about DOS and USCIS.

That's far beyond a simple mistake -- it's fundamental, and time-wasting (at minimum) if anyone relies on it.

And I apologize, oh high and mighty VJ expert. I hardly think he's "relying" on me. He WANTED opinions. Opinions are, by nature, speculation.

See first answer above.

You and your cronies

Name one person here who is my "crony." Do it now, and be specific with names and rationales.

who live to troll this site and feel high and mighty

Please cite your objective evidence for this conclusion. Do it now, and be specific -- or is this more "valuable speculation"?

need to get over yourselves.

I will decide what needs to be "gotten over," thank you.

Your "advice" is often full of the same opinions and speculation that you so often criticize others for.

Its primary basis, most times, is experience. Imagine this: some VJ members intentionally do not post anything to a thread when they know nothing about a subject!

But I guess no one is entitled to an opinion on here except you guys.

Next time, please proofread twice, post once, and have something substantial to offer. That's the least that can be expected of someone who wishes to be entitled to an opinion that is worthy of respect, si man?

Everyone's a bully in the interweb's age.

Any who, as far as working. We are not allowed. However, should the AoS be approved, I believe they "forgive" any work you may have done. I'm not telling you you should work. not at all, but I once had to choose between losing a client and working. I'm not saying which one I took...

Edited October 13, 2009 by Kittyfang

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I can't comment on starting a business....in another thread a few people said that its legal assuming your not giving yourself a salary until your EAD. Regarding overseas work I can tell you 100% that it is legal. I've had this confirmed by an attorney and an immigration officer. Krikit too had someone from USCIS confirm this in a previous thread.

What your probably discovering as most of us here have is that USCIS is very much still in the 1970's. They've really only defined their system with the old fashion idea that everyone works for a US employer and has I-9s etc.

Edited October 13, 2009 by Sousuke

[Kittyfang 6]

I can't comment on starting a business....in another thread a few people said that its legal assuming your not giving yourself a salary until your EAD. Regarding overseas work I can tell you 100% that it is legal. I've had this confirmed by an attorney and an immigration officer. Krikit too had someone from USCIS confirm this in a previous thread.

What your probably discovering as most of us here have is that USCIS is very much still in the 1970's. They've really only defined their system with the old fashion idea that everyone works for a US employer and has I-9s etc.

If I understand you correctly, this would mean that someone who is physically in the U.S., but doing work for someone... in France, for example, would have no problem? or would they fall under the category of "people not allowed to work"?

[TBoneTX 45,266]

Krikit too had someone from USCIS confirm this in a previous thread.

After two pages, finally an answer! Perhaps Sousuke can post the link to the relevant thread, or ask Krikit to chime in personally (or, optimally, the OP or one of the subsequent posters can research it and report it themselves) -- all, uh, "bully" suggestions! Edited October 13, 2009 by TBoneTX

[Shanh 2]

I don't know if this would help much, but yesterday I was reading a bit on the IRS site.

While waiting for adjustment, K1 aliens might not be taxed in the US for worldwide earnings depending if they are considered Non resident aliens or resident aliens and here is a graph that summarized it a bit.

A bit off topic I guess, but I thought it might be interesting

[TBoneTX 45,266]

I thought it might be interesting

Si, man... and there have been several lengthy threads about this in the "Moving Here" forum, chiefly inspired by tax season. Good stuff to read and know.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Here's the link:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...218094&st=0

Regarding residency you can make yourself a resident for tax purposes if you want to by adding a signed statement with your tax returns - its typically an advantage unless you made over the exclusion limit when you were in your home country (80 something thousand).

[mitch.snyder 0]

I'm not trying to cheat the government or bend the rules here... but what about "hiring" an employee in Canada to do the work for you? Say a loved one, a friend or family member for instance? You work out an arrangement where your Canadian company pays them the equivalent of your wage. Then they just send you a money order, or if you really trust them get them a debit card and they can cash their check and then put thus said cash in your bank account for you... I'm not sure if that would work or not.... I know it's only a temporary arrangement until you get your EAD but it might just work...

when I move I was thinking of getting a second debit card and leaving it with my family just in case I need them to lend me some cash temporarily while I wait for my EAD. They could just deposit it in my account and from there I can transfer the funds onto my credit card....

just my thoughts and DEFINITELY not legal advice but you asked...

[Thai Rath 1]

[nevermind]

Edited October 13, 2009 by Thai Rath

[sjr09 155]

thanks for the replies so far. Very interested in getting people's opinions.

As roughsweet said, why would it matter if im still earning money from a different country? I feel like Im showing even more that I am not at risk of being a public charge. Plus I imagine I would pay taxes on that income. win-win situation, no?

So far, I've only skimmed through the Temporary Migration to the United States: Nonimmigrant Admissions Under U.S. Immigration Law U.S. and the wording seems to vary which still makes me wonder. They talk for instance about "accepting employment while in the US", which wouldnt be my case... (in case this interests anybody else http://www.uscis.gov/files/nativedocuments...rants_2006.pdf)

If somebody can explain WHY I cant earn money, where ever it comes from, please do. Id just like to understand.

Now, I am not sure the rules for Working, but I know for a fact that you DO NOT need your permit to open a business in the states.... You can open a consultation business, register your company (make sure you get an ITTN socail security number) register the business name, and earn money as a business... Contact the SBA (small business association) and look into forming an LLC ... You will be responsible for the taxes and such, but can keep your Canadian Clients AND promote for new ones...

You can easily open an LLC and have the company pay the taxes...

ITIN is not a SSN! You have a misconception what a ITIN is really for:

Are ITINs valid for work purposes?

No. ITINs are for federal income tax purposes only. Getting an ITIN does not change your immigration status or your right to work in the United States.

Who needs an ITIN?

IRS issues ITINs to foreign nationals and others who have federal tax reporting or filing requirements and do not qualify for SSNs. A non-resident alien individual not eligible for a SSN, who is required to file a U.S. tax return only to claim a refund of tax under the provisions of a U.S. tax treaty, needs an ITIN.

Examples of individuals who need ITINs include:

Non-resident alien filing a U.S. tax return and not eligible for a SSN

U.S. resident alien (based on days present in the United States) filing a U.S. tax return and not eligible for a SSN

Dependent or spouse of a U.S. citizen/resident alien

Dependent or spouse of a non-resident alien visa holder

How do I know if I need an ITIN?

If you do not have a SSN and are not eligible to obtain a SSN, but you have a requirement to furnish a federal tax identification number or file a federal income tax return, you must apply for an ITIN.

If you have an application for a SSN pending, do not file Form W-7. Complete Form W-7 only if the Social Security Administration (SSA) notifies you that a SSN cannot be issued.

To obtain a SSN, see Form SS-5, Application for a Social Security Card. To get Form SS-5 or to find out if you are eligible to obtain an SSN, go to www.socialsecurity.gov or contact a SSA office. By law, an alien individual cannot have both an ITIN and a SSN.

IRS processes returns showing SSNs or ITINs in the blanks where tax forms request SSNs. IRS no longer accepts, and will not process, forms showing "SSA205c," "applied for," "NRA," blanks, etc.

Edited October 13, 2009 by sjr09

[MapleLeafBaby 1]

Don't waste your time with several people who know nothing about taxation and working...or they think they do.

Keep in mind, Canadians are able to collect 'Canadian unemployment' after moving to the US. How different would it be if you owned a convenience store back home in Canada, and you moved here. Does this mean just because you have moved to the US, you immediately have to shut down your store? Makes no sense. As well, how does it make sense that of you earned $100k in Canada, and claimed it on your taxes in Canada, that you would also claim it in the US and pay taxes in the US? If this were the case, no one would do international business. Yes you have to claim it in both countries, but there are rules that apply to where the source of the income is and how taxes apply.

If you are serious about continuing to work, the two people you should solicit for advice is an immigration attorney and an accountant. All of which will likely cost you less than $200 combined for their time....well worth the money spent...instead of taking the advice of a bunch of people on here who are far from professionals...(there may be a few accountants on here, and power to ya if you can get their advice)

Good luck! (my personal prediction is that you can keep working) let us know how it goes.

[kizza 1]

Thank you very much for the replies so far. Lots of interesting info... lots to digest as well.

For those interested in the topic - I know there are other people here with the same type of job - I have also posted a question in the Canadian forum and have gotten some interesting replies in there as well.

I will let you know what I find out on my side. Hopefully I will get some definite answers that can help out more people.