The Muslims are coming!

[Joseph & Ana 0]

The only reason the "religion of peace slogan" came about is because of folks misquoting the Quran to further their own dodgy agenda (such as www.religionofpeace.com).

The people behind this sort of thing have no interest in furthering greater understanding - in their way they're as bad as the fundamentalists they're complaining about.

Again we're back to the "who coined the phrase argument"

Many here have called it a religion of peace and I think its dishonest.

Its a tad politically correct, but somewhat more honest than your selective quotation of scripture bereft of any sort of historical or sociological analysis.

You don't need historical or sociological analysis (though it might be comfy for you to say so instead of addressing the content of the verses) for 100's of verses which have the same theme - fighting non-believers and killing them wherever they are. Which you can not find the equivalent in the Bible no matter how many verses are quoted (of which spoke of instances, rather than commands)

Somehow I don't think you are an expert on theology, Brother Joe

You never really answered Jen's question earlier - which was what is your goal in posting this kind of stuff?

There are plenty of muslims USCs and petitioned spouses on these boards. What exactly is your point in pointing fingers at people?

Whats the point of people pointing fingers at Christians or protestants at every turn? Its a stupid question.

Another copout answer from the radical left (you're not an expert). That always comes when you lose.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Islam means submission, not peace. The peace part comes from the idea that you achieve peace through submission (of yourself to God).

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The only reason the "religion of peace slogan" came about is because of folks misquoting the Quran to further their own dodgy agenda (such as www.religionofpeace.com).

The people behind this sort of thing have no interest in furthering greater understanding - in their way they're as bad as the fundamentalists they're complaining about.

Again we're back to the "who coined the phrase argument"

Many here have called it a religion of peace and I think its dishonest.

Its a tad politically correct, but somewhat more honest than your selective quotation of scripture bereft of any sort of historical or sociological analysis.

You don't need historical or sociological analysis (though it might be comfy for you to say so instead of addressing the content of the verses) for 100's of verses which have the same theme - fighting non-believers and killing them wherever they are. Which you can not find the equivalent in the Bible no matter how many verses are quoted (of which spoke of instances, rather than commands)

Somehow I don't think you are an expert on theology, Brother Joe

You never really answered Jen's question earlier - which was what is your goal in posting this kind of stuff?

There are plenty of muslims USCs and petitioned spouses on these boards. What exactly is your point in pointing fingers at people?

Whats the point of people pointing fingers at Christians or protestants at every turn? Its a stupid question.

Another copout answer from the radical left (you're not an expert). That always comes when you lose.

Who is pointing fingers Joe? I'm not. And what exactly did I lose?

You never really answered Jen's question earlier - which was what is your goal in posting this kind of stuff?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I just have a problem with it being called a religion of Peace.

By your standard, there is no religion of peace. The Bible is full of calls to kill, burn and slaughter those that don't fall in line. A selection below...

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

[Joseph & Ana 0]

I just have a problem with it being called a religion of Peace.

By your standard, there is no religion of peace. The Bible is full of calls to kill, burn and slaughter those that don't fall in line. A selection below...

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

Actually there is.. Christianity. You quote all old testament verses, and leave out the fact that Jesus came to fulfill the law since humanity cannot fulfill or obey the law. Jesus brought forgiveness, not death. Also, there is no salvation in Islam. You obey the law and hope you were good enough to get in. Though, even in islam it is physically impossible to keep the law. So no one knows for sure if they're good enough (that is unless they become a martyr, then they know for sure).

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Interesting - so there are concessions to be had in Christianity to excuse the bloodthirstiness in some of its scriptures, but there cannot be any concession for context for Islam.

Again I ask - what is the point of this line of argument?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Interesting - so there are concessions to be had in Christianity to excuse the bloodthirstiness in some of its scriptures, but there cannot be any concession for context for Islam.

Of couse not 'cause Islam is the evils...

[toma1 10]

Actually there is.. Christianity. You quote all old testament verses, and leave out the fact that Jesus came to fulfill the law since humanity cannot fulfill or obey the law. Jesus brought forgiveness, not death. Also, there is no salvation in Islam. You obey the law and hope you were good enough to get in. Though, even in islam it is physically impossible to keep the law. So no one knows for sure if they're good enough (that is unless they become a martyr, then they know for sure).

The NT is as full of internal inconsistencies (and I mean 100s) as any other religious text.

I can't believe that in 2009 we have two groups of adults that are trying to have a rational argument over which book of ancient mythology is the "true" one. Ridiculous religious disputes that are based on such nonsense are exactly why there are so many problems in the world.

No one lost and no one won, because this argument is not winnable.

[TracyHamza 1]

I don't know what all this debate is about. The issue isn't Muslims or Christians or whatever. The issue I have is with the radical, fundamental, intolerant fringes of either of these religious groups (and they both have them). I have friends that are Muslims, I have friends that are all colors of Christian and I have friends that aren't religious at all. I don't have a problem with any of them. They're all nice people. Why would or should I care whether they worship a God and if they do, which God they worship. Since religion is a private matter between a person and God (my friends know that this is how I feel about the subject), it's simply not my business and they won't try to make it such.

I completely agree with you Mr Big...I am christian and my husband is muslim and we have perfect harmony and acceptance and respect for each others faith...there are fanatics in every religion...i find it hilarious that people call theirselves christian on one hand and spew hate about others...i know many muslims who are the most kind thoughtful loving people i have ever met and i know alot of so called good christian people who go to church on sunday to pray for forgiveness for the stupid things they did on friday and saturday...there is good and bad in all of us...i am really disgusted by this whole thread...this site is for multi-cultural spouses to share experiences and visa issues...not to put down someone else's choice of religion....if you don't want to help other couples and just want to spew hate then perhaps you should find another site.....

[Joseph & Ana 0]

Interesting - so there are concessions to be had in Christianity to excuse the bloodthirstiness in some of its scriptures, but there cannot be any concession for context for Islam.

Again I ask - what is the point of this line of argument?

No concessions - completion of the law through Christ. Islam does not afford such forgiveness. Therefore, since the only way one can know for sure if they are going to paradise is to be a martyr, it makes muslims obligated to that around the world. As is proven by the worldwide violence in Islam's name.

Actually there is.. Christianity. You quote all old testament verses, and leave out the fact that Jesus came to fulfill the law since humanity cannot fulfill or obey the law. Jesus brought forgiveness, not death. Also, there is no salvation in Islam. You obey the law and hope you were good enough to get in. Though, even in islam it is physically impossible to keep the law. So no one knows for sure if they're good enough (that is unless they become a martyr, then they know for sure).

The NT is as full of internal inconsistencies (and I mean 100s) as any other religious text.

I can't believe that in 2009 we have two groups of adults that are trying to have a rational argument over which book of ancient mythology is the "true" one. Ridiculous religious disputes that are based on such nonsense are exactly why there are so many problems in the world.

No one lost and no one won, because this argument is not winnable.

What do inconsistencies have to do with the violence we are talking about? Red herring.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Interesting - so there are concessions to be had in Christianity to excuse the bloodthirstiness in some of its scriptures, but there cannot be any concession for context for Islam.

Again I ask - what is the point of this line of argument?

No concessions - completion of the law through Christ. Islam does not afford such forgiveness. Therefore, since the only way one can know for sure if they are going to paradise is to be a martyr, it makes muslims obligated to that around the world. As is proven by the worldwide violence in Islam's name.

And yet not all muslims are hate-filled fundamentalists.

Yet you still want to push the argument that ideologically they should be.

What do inconsistencies have to do with the violence we are talking about? Red herring.

Your entire line of argument is a red herring.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

Interesting - so there are concessions to be had in Christianity to excuse the bloodthirstiness in some of its scriptures, but there cannot be any concession for context for Islam.

Again I ask - what is the point of this line of argument?

No concessions - completion of the law through Christ. Islam does not afford such forgiveness. Therefore, since the only way one can know for sure if they are going to paradise is to be a martyr, it makes muslims obligated to that around the world. As is proven by the worldwide violence in Islam's name.

And yet not all muslims are hate-filled fundamentalists.

Yet you still want to push the argument that ideologically they should be.

What do inconsistencies have to do with the violence we are talking about? Red herring.

Your entire line of argument is a red herring.

You're right, not all of them are. But then they don't adhere to the Quran as they "should". I don't have a problem with them. The Quran has a problem with them.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Who are you to question a person's religious scruples?

[Joseph & Ana 0]

I'm not questioning their scruples, the Quran is questioning it.

[sara..... 371]

Interesting - so there are concessions to be had in Christianity to excuse the bloodthirstiness in some of its scriptures, but there cannot be any concession for context for Islam.

Again I ask - what is the point of this line of argument?

No concessions - completion of the law through Christ. Islam does not afford such forgiveness. Therefore, since the only way one can know for sure if they are going to paradise is to be a martyr, it makes muslims obligated to that around the world. As is proven by the worldwide violence in Islam's name.

Actually there is.. Christianity. You quote all old testament verses, and leave out the fact that Jesus came to fulfill the law since humanity cannot fulfill or obey the law. Jesus brought forgiveness, not death. Also, there is no salvation in Islam. You obey the law and hope you were good enough to get in. Though, even in islam it is physically impossible to keep the law. So no one knows for sure if they're good enough (that is unless they become a martyr, then they know for sure).

The NT is as full of internal inconsistencies (and I mean 100s) as any other religious text.

I can't believe that in 2009 we have two groups of adults that are trying to have a rational argument over which book of ancient mythology is the "true" one. Ridiculous religious disputes that are based on such nonsense are exactly why there are so many problems in the world.

No one lost and no one won, because this argument is not winnable.

What do inconsistencies have to do with the violence we are talking about? Red herring.

i dont really want to get into an argument over this but we receive forgiveness from God........the terrorist are not martyr they will not get into heaven for what they have done.......Islam is a very forgiving religion and way of life....killing innocent people is against islam

sara

sara

Edited October 12, 2009 by estadia