The Muslims are coming!

[Joseph & Ana 0]

You show instances where either God himself takes people out, or where a specific person or war shows the death of certain people. Can you name where it tells believers to kill non-believers? Not moments in history as illustrated above, but hundreds of verses (like the Quran) which tell believers to kill, maime, behead, and fight non-believers. There is also specific verses referring to killing Christians and Jews which I posted before. Your #######-for-tat has fallen short.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

A few pages of progress and here comes Joe to set the bar a few notches lower with his crude thinking.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

Qur'an (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

Qur'an (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Qur'an (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Qur'an (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Qur'an (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

Qur'an (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Qur'an (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Qur'an (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."

Qur'an (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Qur'an (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Qur'an (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"

Qur'an (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Qur'an (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Qur'an (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Qur'an (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us"

THERE are many many more where that came from... Religion of peace?

This kind of thinking is precisely what lead to 911 and the radicalism. Twisting words for your own benefit. Think about it; nothing different. Let me read a story book then take out the violent tales and apply them to my dog and say the story book is telling my dog to bite the mailman.

This sort of thinking is why we're at this juncture now. Too many religious zealots on both sides without even the minimal amount of spirituality. Religion is far different than spirituality.

Nothing is twisted. Its quoted word for word.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If that's all that's in the Quran - then there is clearly a lot of padding.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

I read all of Quran quotes and all of the Bible quotes and I did make a conclusion from them when I see them in their context. A much higher percentage of the Quran quotes appear to be commands then the Biblical quotes. More of the Biblical quotes are statements of something that happened rather then a command. Another conclusion I made is that on average references to death in the bible are actions by God where as in the Quran they are actions by people. When people kill in the bible there are times when it is later mentioned as wrong ie. that quote about david.

Don't get me wrong both have there fair share of killing and death but there is certainly a difference in the way it is delivered...just sayin.

The Quran is only about 10% law, and even some of that is conditional or situational. The verses that Joe repeatedly posts are part of a collection known as the "Sword Verses", which were revealed during battles. Even within them are directives to let enemies go if you see good in them. Context is incredibly important, as is a knowledge of history, when evaluating the holy books.

It is true that the tone in different English translations of the Qur'an sometimes sound very directive and even harsh...

But something that people forget to realize is that the Bible has been translated so many times, over so many centuries, and pretty much the versions you pick up now almost read as literature. In fact, the Bible is taught as literature in many universities...

It's hard to even really begin to compare the two in terms of tone and diction unless you have some sort of background in Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, and Greek. People forget that...

It actually hasn't been "translated so many times". Its not evolution. You can check the greek and hebrew and also compare with the dead-sea scrolls and the other scrolls they recently found. They were found to be almost perfectly translated.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

darn honkeys coming in ans screwing it up for everyone!

actually, that's a good point....well, to be blunt, i wonder how the world would be if 500 years of imperialism, colonialism, and domination from predominantly western european invaders in south america, north america, asia, africa, etc. didn't happen.

Probably a one world Sharia state

[Jenn! 918]

So what is your agenda, Joe? You would like everyone to admit that Islam is an inherently violent religion? So what does that mean - that all followers of Islam are violent people? Should we be suspicious of all Muslims because they want to murder all nonbelievers? What is your goal in the posting of these verses?

[Joseph & Ana 0]

there are many paths to God, and if you believe that what you have is right, then hopefully God will see what is in your heart and bless you....accordingly, same goes for me, i hope....

in the end, religion is about faith, isn't it....we all just believe that our path is the right one...and according to this, i think and hope that God/Allah will have mercy on us all....

i can understand even the agnostic and atheist POVs, for they don't see God and any proof of His existence, so they don't believe...well in the end, goodness prevails no matter what your path is...and as long as we are all good and help one another and look past petty differences, all is good.

btw, didnt really understand this remark: "I respect the Arab position where it was 'wondered' why a Savior was not sent to them specifically." can you elaborate?

religion in my culture is a very private matter and people do not try to probe too much in what you believe...i have christian relatives and we all meet up and it's a non-issue....but where i am from, many types of faiths have passed by and that is why it's not important....my fob spouse is more liberal than i am and he was born in the middle east, go figure...

thank you for your kind responses, mark

kat

The Bible must be wrong then right? "There is none righteous no not one" (no one is good)

Also wrong for Jesus to say, "I am the way, the truth, and the life.. No man cometh unto the Father but through me" (many paths to God?)

[Joseph & Ana 0]

So what is your agenda, Joe? You would like everyone to admit that Islam is an inherently violent religion? So what does that mean - that all followers of Islam are violent people? Should we be suspicious of all Muslims because they want to murder all nonbelievers? What is your goal in the posting of these verses?

Absolutely not. I just have a problem with it being called a religion of Peace. By George Bush or otherwise.

[toma1 10]

The Bible must be wrong then right?

That's a bit like asking whether Grimm's must be wrong.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The only reason the "religion of peace slogan" came about is because of folks misquoting the Quran to further their own dodgy agenda (such as www.religionofpeace.com).

The people behind this sort of thing have no interest in furthering greater understanding - in their way they're as bad as the fundamentalists they're complaining about.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

The only reason the "religion of peace slogan" came about is because of folks misquoting the Quran to further their own dodgy agenda (such as www.religionofpeace.com).

The people behind this sort of thing have no interest in furthering greater understanding - in their way they're as bad as the fundamentalists they're complaining about.

Again we're back to the "who coined the phrase argument"

Many here have called it a religion of peace and I think its dishonest.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The only reason the "religion of peace slogan" came about is because of folks misquoting the Quran to further their own dodgy agenda (such as www.religionofpeace.com).

The people behind this sort of thing have no interest in furthering greater understanding - in their way they're as bad as the fundamentalists they're complaining about.

Again we're back to the "who coined the phrase argument"

Many here have called it a religion of peace and I think its dishonest.

Its a tad politically correct, but somewhat more honest than your selective quotation of scripture bereft of any sort of historical or sociological analysis.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

The only reason the "religion of peace slogan" came about is because of folks misquoting the Quran to further their own dodgy agenda (such as www.religionofpeace.com).

The people behind this sort of thing have no interest in furthering greater understanding - in their way they're as bad as the fundamentalists they're complaining about.

Again we're back to the "who coined the phrase argument"

Many here have called it a religion of peace and I think its dishonest.

Its a tad politically correct, but somewhat more honest than your selective quotation of scripture bereft of any sort of historical or sociological analysis.

You don't need historical or sociological analysis (though it might be comfy for you to say so instead of addressing the content of the verses) for 100's of verses which have the same theme - fighting non-believers and killing them wherever they are. Which you can not find the equivalent in the Bible no matter how many verses are quoted (of which spoke of instances, rather than commands)

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The only reason the "religion of peace slogan" came about is because of folks misquoting the Quran to further their own dodgy agenda (such as www.religionofpeace.com).

The people behind this sort of thing have no interest in furthering greater understanding - in their way they're as bad as the fundamentalists they're complaining about.

Again we're back to the "who coined the phrase argument"

Many here have called it a religion of peace and I think its dishonest.

Its a tad politically correct, but somewhat more honest than your selective quotation of scripture bereft of any sort of historical or sociological analysis.

You don't need historical or sociological analysis (though it might be comfy for you to say so instead of addressing the content of the verses) for 100's of verses which have the same theme - fighting non-believers and killing them wherever they are. Which you can not find the equivalent in the Bible no matter how many verses are quoted (of which spoke of instances, rather than commands)

Somehow I don't think you are an expert on theology, Brother Joe

You never really answered Jen's question earlier - which was what is your goal in posting this kind of stuff?

There are plenty of muslims USCs and petitioned spouses on these boards. What exactly is your point in pointing fingers at people?