Questioning the absurd

[Christi and Ian 24]

No, I'm not an attorney but I'm right about the reason marriage certificates are required. I'm saying your attorney doesn't understand the requirements of the process. I'm not providing an explanation of all issues surrounding name changes. Name changes must be documented. Marriage certificates can be used to document name changes due to marriage. It's the only reason a past marriage certificate is actually needed. That your attorney asked for ones not needed or misunderstands the reason she's asking for them is her problem. I'm just providing you correct information to do with as you choose.

No they don't. In the State of California all you have to do is start using a different name. If you use the same name for everything you do, guess what? It becomes your name.

VIA WIKEPEDIA:

Specifically in California, Code of Civil Procedure § 1279.5 and Family Code § 2082 regulate common law and court decreed name changes. Code of Civil Procedure § 1279.5 (a) reads, “Except as provided in subdivision (B), ©, (d), or (e), nothing in this title shall be construed to abrogate the common law right of any person to change his or her name.” Subdivisions b through e preclude one from changing their name by common law if they are in state prison, on probation, on parole, or been a convicted sex offender. If a person is not in any of these categories, then a common law name change is allowed. Family Code § 2082 also specifically states, “Nothing in this code shall be construed to abrogate the common law right of any person to change one's name.”

So there you go. And asking for a marriage certificate for a woman only because sometimes there's a name change involved is ridiculous, when in California, and in many other states, I could just start calling myself Mary Queen of Scots and presto chango, that's my name...

I think I'll stick to the advice of the one with the law degree & the firm with 18 years of experience.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

@ DNA exam.

I had to provide copies of both marriage and divorce certificates from my nasty union to the Accidental Husband. Standard procedure

omg loooooovinggggg this!!!! Lol...funniest eereever!

anytime sister, anytime

[pushbrk 12,876]

No, I'm not an attorney but I'm right about the reason marriage certificates are required. I'm saying your attorney doesn't understand the requirements of the process. I'm not providing an explanation of all issues surrounding name changes. Name changes must be documented. Marriage certificates can be used to document name changes due to marriage. It's the only reason a past marriage certificate is actually needed. That your attorney asked for ones not needed or misunderstands the reason she's asking for them is her problem. I'm just providing you correct information to do with as you choose.

No they don't. In the State of California all you have to do is start using a different name. If you use the same name for everything you do, guess what? It becomes your name.

VIA WIKEPEDIA:

Specifically in California, Code of Civil Procedure § 1279.5 and Family Code § 2082 regulate common law and court decreed name changes. Code of Civil Procedure § 1279.5 (a) reads, “Except as provided in subdivision (B), ©, (d), or (e), nothing in this title shall be construed to abrogate the common law right of any person to change his or her name.” Subdivisions b through e preclude one from changing their name by common law if they are in state prison, on probation, on parole, or been a convicted sex offender. If a person is not in any of these categories, then a common law name change is allowed. Family Code § 2082 also specifically states, “Nothing in this code shall be construed to abrogate the common law right of any person to change one's name.”

So there you go. And asking for a marriage certificate for a woman only because sometimes there's a name change involved is ridiculous, when in California, and in many other states, I could just start calling myself Mary Queen of Scots and presto chango, that's my name...

I think I'll stick to the advice of the one with the law degree & the firm with 18 years of experience.

I'm not sure why you're arguing with me. Perhaps you misunderstood the context of my remarks. Let me restate it. USCIS requires documentation of any and all name changes. This is because part of what they are adjudicating is that the person named on the birth certificate supplied as evidence of US Citizenship is the person who married the beneficiary, and that they were free to marry when they did so. Name changes complicate that job, so they require a clear paper trail for name changes.

Again, I'm agreeing with you that your attorney's "why" is absurd and giving you the REAL "why". My discussion of documenting name changes is in that context and that context only. Ok??

[pushbrk 12,876]

I think I'll stick to the advice of the one with the law degree & the firm with 18 years of experience.

The person with a law degree working for the firm with 18 years of experience is the one who gave you the absurd explanation for their request. I gave you the reason they found a list of documents somewhere that included prior marriage certificates and then misinterpreted it as needed for anything but to document a name change not documented elsewhere. Then, when you asked her, "Why?" and she had no clue why, she made up an absurd excuse.

This, of course, is the same attorney you indicated a wish you never hired and could now fire, in another recent thread.

Edited October 8, 2009 by pushbrk

[daboyz 36]

I think I'll stick to the advice of the one with the law degree & the firm with 18 years of experience.

The person with a law degree working for the firm with 18 years of experience is the one who gave you the absurd explanation for their request. I gave you the reason they found a list of documents somewhere that included prior marriage certificates and then misinterpreted it as needed for anything but to document a name change not documented elsewhere. Then, when you asked her, "Why?" and she had no clue why, she made up an absurd excuse.

This, of course, is the same attorney you indicated a wish you never hired and could now fire, in another recent thread.

It's quite possible this lawyer has been giving bad advice for 18 years. Happens all the time. A law degree does not equate to competence.

[Beth/ Paris Heart 2]

I think I'll stick to the advice of the one with the law degree & the firm with 18 years of experience.

The person with a law degree working for the firm with 18 years of experience is the one who gave you the absurd explanation for their request. I gave you the reason they found a list of documents somewhere that included prior marriage certificates and then misinterpreted it as needed for anything but to document a name change not documented elsewhere. Then, when you asked her, "Why?" and she had no clue why, she made up an absurd excuse.

This, of course, is the same attorney you indicated a wish you never hired and could now fire, in another recent thread.

I agree with Pushbrk, not to toot Pushbrks' horn, but this man knows what he is talking about. I never knew Pushbrk to be wrong, or give out bad information.

[Christi and Ian 24]

I think I'll stick to the advice of the one with the law degree & the firm with 18 years of experience.

The person with a law degree working for the firm with 18 years of experience is the one who gave you the absurd explanation for their request. I gave you the reason they found a list of documents somewhere that included prior marriage certificates and then misinterpreted it as needed for anything but to document a name change not documented elsewhere. Then, when you asked her, "Why?" and she had no clue why, she made up an absurd excuse.

This, of course, is the same attorney you indicated a wish you never hired and could now fire, in another recent thread.

I agree with Pushbrk, not to toot Pushbrks' horn, but this man knows what he is talking about. I never knew Pushbrk to be wrong, or give out bad information.

All I know is he is stating what he claims is fact without supporting evidence...

[Christi and Ian 24]

And yes, I was TICKED that the attorney took so long to file, still irked about that as a matter of fact...

The Immigration Firm has been in this line of business for 18 years...Regardless, they have seen instances of an RFE because the HUSBAND did not provide a marriage certificate because of a previous marriage.

And again, it's a "just in case" scenario, as my attorney has advised me that it is by no means a situation where they see this regularly.

But on the other hand, if you're so adamant that it has something to do with showing supporting evidence of a name change, where is the supporting facts? Is this on the USCIS website? How do you know that is the reason, and how do you know, my attorney just made up an answer. Should I just take your word for it? I understand that you have been through this process already, but does that mean you've absorbed all of the information...and the reasons behind it?

Forgive me for questioning, but I take nothing at face value.

[daboyz 36]

And yes, I was TICKED that the attorney took so long to file, still irked about that as a matter of fact...

The Immigration Firm has been in this line of business for 18 years...Regardless, they have seen instances of an RFE because the HUSBAND did not provide a marriage certificate because of a previous marriage.

And again, it's a "just in case" scenario, as my attorney has advised me that it is by no means a situation where they see this regularly.

But on the other hand, if you're so adamant that it has something to do with showing supporting evidence of a name change, where is the supporting facts? Is this on the USCIS website? How do you know that is the reason, and how do you know, my attorney just made up an answer. Should I just take your word for it? I understand that you have been through this process already, but does that mean you've absorbed all of the information...and the reasons behind it?

Forgive me for questioning, but I take nothing at face value.

I guess people are pretty quick to slam attorneys because we have all seen so many horror stories here (including my own) Hopefully everything works out for you.

Pushbrk can be short with people, but I would bet he knows more about this process than your attorney.

[pushbrk 12,876]

And yes, I was TICKED that the attorney took so long to file, still irked about that as a matter of fact...

The Immigration Firm has been in this line of business for 18 years...Regardless, they have seen instances of an RFE because the HUSBAND did not provide a marriage certificate because of a previous marriage.

And again, it's a "just in case" scenario, as my attorney has advised me that it is by no means a situation where they see this regularly.

But on the other hand, if you're so adamant that it has something to do with showing supporting evidence of a name change, where is the supporting facts? Is this on the USCIS website? How do you know that is the reason, and how do you know, my attorney just made up an answer. Should I just take your word for it? I understand that you have been through this process already, but does that mean you've absorbed all of the information...and the reasons behind it?

Forgive me for questioning, but I take nothing at face value.

Check out the I-130 instruction, page two under "What If Your Name Has Changed?" where you'll read the following.

If either you or the person you are filing for is using a name other than shown on the relevant documents, you must file your petition with copies of the legal documents that effected the change, such as a marriage certificate, adoption decree or court order.

[pushbrk 12,876]

And yes, I was TICKED that the attorney took so long to file, still irked about that as a matter of fact...

The Immigration Firm has been in this line of business for 18 years...Regardless, they have seen instances of an RFE because the HUSBAND did not provide a marriage certificate because of a previous marriage.

And again, it's a "just in case" scenario, as my attorney has advised me that it is by no means a situation where they see this regularly.

But on the other hand, if you're so adamant that it has something to do with showing supporting evidence of a name change, where is the supporting facts? Is this on the USCIS website? How do you know that is the reason, and how do you know, my attorney just made up an answer. Should I just take your word for it? I understand that you have been through this process already, but does that mean you've absorbed all of the information...and the reasons behind it?

Forgive me for questioning, but I take nothing at face value.

Check out the I-130 instruction, page two under "What If Your Name Has Changed?" where you'll read the following.

If either you or the person you are filing for is using a name other than shown on the relevant documents, you must file your petition with copies of the legal documents that effected the change, such as a marriage certificate, adoption decree or court order.

Please forgive me. It's on page 3.

[WhidbeyGirl 1]

Your attorney is right...the request is so that USCIS can verify that there was a valid marriage, and the divorce decree is so that they can verify that said marriage was terminated legally. Not everyone is married and divorced in the same state....or even in the same country. So that is why they ask for both. There will be times in the future, when a request from USCIS, or the consulate may not make sense and leave you scratching your head. There is an explanation behind each request....it may not be your logic, but it does make sense. Bottom line, you want your SO to get a visa....so if they tell you to jump, you ask how high and do it.

Wow, I missed something, I did not send in former marriage cert to hubby #1 AKA "Death wish marriage" only Divorce decree.

But we got approved , maybe I better pull old marriage license and take to hubbys interview? ! ? ! More ####### to dig out.

DITTO, I only sent in two divorce decrees, no marriage certificates except to my husband now. He is here with me in the States now. I sent in barest of bare info for all parts and was approved quickly with no RFE's.

[pushbrk 12,876]

Your attorney is right...the request is so that USCIS can verify that there was a valid marriage, and the divorce decree is so that they can verify that said marriage was terminated legally. Not everyone is married and divorced in the same state....or even in the same country. So that is why they ask for both. There will be times in the future, when a request from USCIS, or the consulate may not make sense and leave you scratching your head. There is an explanation behind each request....it may not be your logic, but it does make sense. Bottom line, you want your SO to get a visa....so if they tell you to jump, you ask how high and do it.

Wow, I missed something, I did not send in former marriage cert to hubby #1 AKA "Death wish marriage" only Divorce decree.

But we got approved , maybe I better pull old marriage license and take to hubbys interview? ! ? ! More ####### to dig out.

DITTO, I only sent in two divorce decrees, no marriage certificates except to my husband now. He is here with me in the States now. I sent in barest of bare info for all parts and was approved quickly with no RFE's.

Many divorce decrees show both maiden and married name. If yours does, no worries.

[WhidbeyGirl 1]

Your attorney is right...the request is so that USCIS can verify that there was a valid marriage, and the divorce decree is so that they can verify that said marriage was terminated legally. Not everyone is married and divorced in the same state....or even in the same country. So that is why they ask for both. There will be times in the future, when a request from USCIS, or the consulate may not make sense and leave you scratching your head. There is an explanation behind each request....it may not be your logic, but it does make sense. Bottom line, you want your SO to get a visa....so if they tell you to jump, you ask how high and do it.

Wow, I missed something, I did not send in former marriage cert to hubby #1 AKA "Death wish marriage" only Divorce decree.

But we got approved , maybe I better pull old marriage license and take to hubbys interview? ! ? ! More ####### to dig out.

DITTO, I only sent in two divorce decrees, no marriage certificates except to my husband now. He is here with me in the States now. I sent in barest of bare info for all parts and was approved quickly with no RFE's.

Many divorce decrees show both maiden and married name. If yours does, no worries.

1st one didn't, 2nd one did.

[pushbrk 12,876]

Your attorney is right...the request is so that USCIS can verify that there was a valid marriage, and the divorce decree is so that they can verify that said marriage was terminated legally. Not everyone is married and divorced in the same state....or even in the same country. So that is why they ask for both. There will be times in the future, when a request from USCIS, or the consulate may not make sense and leave you scratching your head. There is an explanation behind each request....it may not be your logic, but it does make sense. Bottom line, you want your SO to get a visa....so if they tell you to jump, you ask how high and do it.

Wow, I missed something, I did not send in former marriage cert to hubby #1 AKA "Death wish marriage" only Divorce decree.

But we got approved , maybe I better pull old marriage license and take to hubbys interview? ! ? ! More ####### to dig out.

DITTO, I only sent in two divorce decrees, no marriage certificates except to my husband now. He is here with me in the States now. I sent in barest of bare info for all parts and was approved quickly with no RFE's.

Many divorce decrees show both maiden and married name. If yours does, no worries.

1st one didn't, 2nd one did.

They have some latitude but for example, if Mary Margaret Jones provides a divorce decree showing her maiden name was Mary Margaret Frankenheimer another divorce decree for Mary Margaret Anylastname and both Mary Margaret's have the same birth date, they really aren't going to question whether Frankenheimer and Jones are the same person, no matter what the missing family name happened to be. It's unlikely a Consular officer will either, since identification is really the purvue of USCIS. Even so, I would advise showing a paper trail of any and all name changes.

Edited October 9, 2009 by pushbrk