Obama stops Sheriff Joe Arpaio from arresting illegal aliens!

[The_Dude 1,142]

I have 3 family members who are scientists for NASA but I'm still a dumbass. Doesn't mean a damn thing who your friends or family are.

Why do you do chuck a hissy fit on ep about the mods then come talk to me be about insults.

Are you feeling insulted? If so, work on those reading skills, little homey.

I think it's that time of the month for BY.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

BY, how many undocumented workers are in the EU? Do you know?

No I don't know. What I do know is how difficult it is for someone, even with a visa, to initially do anything(function) there. Furthermore, what the fines are for anyone caught employing illegal aliens. I believe the UK's fine was 15,000 pounds. You will not find one article in BBC that excuses illegal aliens committing crimes, with a well citizens do it too.

The point I'm making is that undocumented workers exist everywhere, including the EU. They often fill the same types of jobs there that they do here. They are marginalized, with little or no rights, yet the reality continues to persist. So, you really have to look at all the factors going into why there are so many undocumented workers throughout the world. Approaching the issue with more of a policing issue isn't solving the problem, but further exploiting those workers. In a global economy, where higher skilled labor is easily imported or exported, and even low-skilled labor is exported, why is it that importing low-skilled labor singled out as a problem rather than seeing it as part of a global economy? If you want them documented, then provide them with temporary work Visas. Keeping them outside of the law makes it all too easy to further exploit them. There are viable solutions besides rounding them up.

[Heracles 417]

What would I know, I only work in law enforcement myself. Yes, they do let people cited for misdemeanors go, but that is across the board for all people.They are released on their own recognisance and issued a court date for arraignment. They do however report them to ICE along with their information if it is either determined that they are not legal. The honus is on them to do their job. I know full well though that ICE is overwhealmed and under funded, this is the crux of my argument. However, if you make illegal immigration enforcement the duty of local law enforcement, you will create havoc for them. It undermines their ability to investigate at best, and will completely clog their already overburdened job. The federal government needs to fully fund ICE to allow them to do the job they were entrusted to do.

All I am suggesting with immigration is that when the police arrest someone, they should use fiduciary care to determine status. If someone is found to be illegal, they should be handed to ICE. if the crime warrants jail time, they should serve it and then be deported. However, even a misdemeanor should be deportable. Someone is either here illegally or they are not. There isn't two ways to slice that.

The problem in the states is that everyone is washing their hands from it, particularly the federal government whose shoulders it lies on. It's a matter of procedure and rules. When the police arrest someone, they should be handed to ICE; once they're finished with them.

I have 3 family members who are scientists for NASA but I'm still a dumbass. Doesn't mean a damn thing who your friends or family are.

Why do you do chuck a hissy fit on ep about the mods then come talk to me be about insults.

Are you feeling insulted? If so, work on those reading skills, little homey.

Missed that. Shut up, you should get what I am saying.

"Why don't you"

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If you honestly believe that the ends justify the means as it pertains to things like infringements on the constitutionally guaranteed rights of citizens, then there isn't much left to discuss.

Its a strange way to promote "democracy" by endorsing totalitarianism in law enforcement.

As Benjamin Franklin famously said: "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."

You guys are full of it considering how strict European laws are against illegal aliens. They cannot even burp without being being deported.

Having strict laws isn't the same as dispensing with the concepts of "due process" and "reasonable cause".

[The_Dude 1,142]

What would I know, I only work in law enforcement myself. Yes, they do let people cited for misdemeanors go, but that is across the board for all people.They are released on their own recognisance and issued a court date for arraignment. They do however report them to ICE along with their information if it is either determined that they are not legal. The honus is on them to do their job. I know full well though that ICE is overwhealmed and under funded, this is the crux of my argument. However, if you make illegal immigration enforcement the duty of local law enforcement, you will create havoc for them. It undermines their ability to investigate at best, and will completely clog their already overburdened job. The federal government needs to fully fund ICE to allow them to do the job they were entrusted to do.

All I am suggesting with immigration is that when the police arrest someone, they should use fiduciary care to determine status. If someone is found to be illegal, they should be handed to ICE. if the crime warrants jail time, they should serve it and then be deported. However, even a misdemeanor should be deportable. Someone is either here illegally or they are not. There isn't two ways to slice that.

The problem in the states is that everyone is washing their hands from it, particularly the federal government whose shoulders it lies on. It's a matter of procedure and rules. When the police arrest someone, they should be handed to ICE; once they're finished with them.

That is pretty much what they already do. If someone is detained for a misdemeanor, he is brought to the jail for booking and then either released on their own recognisance with an order to attend their court arraignment, or they are detained because either their identity is in question, or their offense is such that it mandates it. If the person is determined to be here illegally, it is policy that ICE is notified. The problem is that almost every time, ICE does not have the resources to come take custody of the person and will decline. We wouldn't have near the problems we do now, if ICE simply had the funding they needed to do their jobs.

[Heracles 417]

BY, how many undocumented workers are in the EU? Do you know?

No I don't know. What I do know is how difficult it is for someone, even with a visa, to initially do anything(function) there. Furthermore, what the fines are for anyone caught employing illegal aliens. I believe the UK's fine was 15,000 pounds. You will not find one article in BBC that excuses illegal aliens committing crimes, with a well citizens do it too.

The point I'm making is that undocumented workers exist everywhere, including the EU. They often fill the same types of jobs there that they do here. They are marginalized, with little or no rights, yet the reality continues to persist. So, you really have to look at all the factors going into why there are so many undocumented workers throughout the world. Approaching the issue with more of a policing issue isn't solving the problem, but further exploiting those workers. In a global economy, where higher skilled labor is easily imported or exported, and even low-skilled labor is exported, why is it that importing low-skilled labor singled out as a problem rather than seeing it as part of a global economy? If you want them documented, then provide them with temporary work Visas. Keeping them outside of the law makes it all too easy to further exploit them. There are viable solutions besides rounding them up.

They sure do. What some fail to grasp is the huge disparity in how they are treated and what the ruels and laws are. What a country does with them. Show me one other developed country that turns a blind eye like the US does. Show me in which European country an illegal alien can be arrested for a misdemeanor yet let go because it's not a felony. This is not about punishing the illegal aliens, it's about enforcing the laws and keeping undesirables out of their country. It's about punishing those who condone this behavior and profiteer from it by employing them.

I do agree that the US needs legitimate guest worker program. A program that everyone from around the world, including the Philippines, can apply for rather than he status quo of Mexico. Australia has such a program and recently enacted a law requiring such employees be paid the equivalent salary of anyone doing the same work in Australia; as they found employers were exploiting them. Not any more. They now earn the same wage or employers face hefty fines.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Booyah!

[Heracles 417]

We wouldn't have near the problems we do now, if ICE simply had the funding they needed to do their jobs.

That is easy to fix too, with hefty fines. Fine an employer $15K per offense and that totally covers the cost of ICE. As it does in every other developed country.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

We wouldn't have near the problems we do now, if ICE simply had the funding they needed to do their jobs.

That is easy to fix too, with hefty fines. Fine an employer $15K per offense and that totally covers the cost of ICE. As it does in every other developed country.

Well not unless ICE charges per arrest. That doesn't exactly sound practical to me - but who am I...

[Heracles 417]

We wouldn't have near the problems we do now, if ICE simply had the funding they needed to do their jobs.

That is easy to fix too, with hefty fines. Fine an employer $15K per offense and that totally covers the cost of ICE. As it does in every other developed country.

Well not unless ICE charges per arrest. That doesn't exactly sound practical to me - but who am I...

That is how the UK and AUS do it. Wish I could find the article though. Actually employers face jail time there too.

[The_Dude 1,142]

We wouldn't have near the problems we do now, if ICE simply had the funding they needed to do their jobs.

That is easy to fix too, with hefty fines. Fine an employer $15K per offense and that totally covers the cost of ICE. As it does in every other developed country.

Not as easy as it sounds. Try drumming up support for that in congress with the various business lobbies already 10 steps ahead of the game. They will find some way to portray it as an attempt by the government to destroy hard working small business' or some load of ####### like that.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

All I am suggesting with immigration is that when the police arrest someone, they should use fiduciary care to determine status. If someone is found to be illegal, they should be handed to ICE. if the crime warrants jail time, they should serve it and then be deported. However, even a misdemeanor should be deportable. Someone is either here illegally or they are not. There isn't two ways to slice that.

The problem in the states is that everyone is washing their hands from it, particularly the federal government whose shoulders it lies on. It's a matter of procedure and rules. When the police arrest someone, they should be handed to ICE; once they're finished with them.

See, we agree on something important.

[TayRivers 4]

Inappropriate comments have been removed for violation of Visa Journey's TOS.

Tay

Edited October 7, 2009 by TayRivers