CAN I GET AN AMEN!

[AlHayatZween 2]

A good public school and good public school teachers don't have to deny spirituality. There is plenty of room for religious dialogue and discussion in a public school classroom especially if you are teaching Social Studies or English or Humanities. The "western" canon, which is what is primarily taught, is loaded with references to religion, and you can bring it into the discussion just fine (so long as your administrator isn't a micro-manager or a scared-y cat).

But that's different from "teaching" one kind of religion over others in public schools, or holding one in preference than the others. Depends on where you are, but in a lot of schools there is no "majority of one religion." Kids are coming in from Catholic families, Baptist, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Hoo-du, Atheist, you name it... It's public school and we have to remember that we do have separation of church and state here, take it or leave it.

[Danno 1,228]

It seems to me that condoms are placed in schools because humans are fallible - not because humans are naturally promiscuous. Actually, are condoms put in schools anyway? I presume this would be high school?

And yet we don't let children enjoy "safe-drinking Rooms" nor the exchange of safe needles?

I don't know of one School that permits drag racing in a controlled safe way, imagine the lives saved?

I'm just sayin

That's just stupid. Sex is natural and sexually mature (physiologically) people are gonna have sex. Drawing an analogy between kids having sex and using drugs or dragracing is ...........well I guess it's just another Danno-ism.

I would like to Call it a "danno-ism" but I can't claim it as my own, it is however Right-On... as Kids do risky things.

You suggest sex is the limit, I know it's not. (whether it is "natural" is meaningless.)

[Danno 1,228]

A good public school and good public school teachers don't have to deny spirituality. There is plenty of room for religious dialogue and discussion in a public school classroom especially if you are teaching Social Studies or English or Humanities. The "western" canon, which is what is primarily taught, is loaded with references to religion, and you can bring it into the discussion just fine (so long as your administrator isn't a micro-manager or a scared-y cat).

But that's different from "teaching" one kind of religion over others in public schools, or holding one in preference than the others. Depends on where you are, but in a lot of schools there is no "majority of one religion." Kids are coming in from Catholic families, Baptist, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Hoo-du, Atheist, you name it... It's public school and we have to remember that we do have separation of church and state here, take it or leave it.

Since "separation of Church and State" is simply conceptual idea (and not in the constitution) I would rather we do "leave it".

No one has yet to answer why a Congress which pays Clergy with tax money and opens up with prayer at every session would have constructed the Constitution to purposely forbid a student led prayer before a sports game?

How possible is it..... that these same men who Started this very tradition are the same "Some claim" wanted this WALL between religion and Government?

If you believe that... you have more "faith" than I ever will.

The founders were intent on two things which are in the First Amendment.

1. The Federal Govt would NOT prohibit the free exercise of religion.

2, The federal Gov would not "establish" or show a favoritism concerning Religion (or not).

[rebeccajo 14]

I would like to Call it a "danno-ism" but I can't claim it as my own, it is however Right-On... as Kids do risky things.

You suggest sex is the limit, I know it's not. (whether it is "natural" is meaningless.)

Whatever you say, Mr. HeadInTheSand.

I took my son to the store and bought him his first condoms. I wasn't ready to be a grandma when I knew he wasn't ready to be a real father. I wasn't so stupid to think I was going to be able to stop him from looking for his first poon-tang. And I wasn't stupid enough either to think that just because I was trying to protect him from nature that he was going to take that as my permission to go out hunting for crack cocaine. To this day, my 21 year old son doesn't smoke, he doesn't like the taste of alcohol, and he doesn't use drugs. He does like him some pu$$y though.

When I was 16 my own Father put a bottle of bourbon on the kitchen table and said "here - if you want to drink do it at home instead of out running around with your friends".

You can take a lot of fun out of "risky things" for your kids if you don't treat that risky business like it's all just big mysterious grown-up manna.

[AlHayatZween 2]

The founders were intent on two things which are in the First Amendment.

1. The Federal Govt would NOT prohibit the free exercise of religion.

2, The federal Gov would not "establish" or show a favoritism concerning Religion (or not).

Ok, but this is exactly why one religion shouldn't be in the public schools in terms of something that all students should have to participate in... In class discussion fine... In class dialogue/debate fine... After school club fine... After school study fine... But not something all students should be mandated to participate in, as they are all coming from different backgrounds & traditions (in many of the bigger schools).

i think it's fine that Congress opens up with a prayer as it is gesture of good faith and blessings, but that's not the same as public school, imo.

[Scott & Lai 12]

Ok, but this is exactly why one religion shouldn't be in the public schools in terms of something that all students should have to participate in... In class discussion fine... In class dialogue/debate fine... After school club fine... After school study fine... But not something all students should be mandated to participate in, as they are all coming from different backgrounds & traditions (in many of the bigger schools).

I which public schools are students mandated to participate in a religion?

[Dan J 277]

Ok, but this is exactly why one religion shouldn't be in the public schools in terms of something that all students should have to participate in... In class discussion fine... In class dialogue/debate fine... After school club fine... After school study fine... But not something all students should be mandated to participate in, as they are all coming from different backgrounds & traditions (in many of the bigger schools).

I which public schools are students mandated to participate in a religion?

I wouldn't say mandated, but kids can definitely feel peer or cultural pressure to participate in religion.

[Dan J 277]

A good public school and good public school teachers don't have to deny spirituality. There is plenty of room for religious dialogue and discussion in a public school classroom especially if you are teaching Social Studies or English or Humanities. The "western" canon, which is what is primarily taught, is loaded with references to religion, and you can bring it into the discussion just fine (so long as your administrator isn't a micro-manager or a scared-y cat).

But that's different from "teaching" one kind of religion over others in public schools, or holding one in preference than the others. Depends on where you are, but in a lot of schools there is no "majority of one religion." Kids are coming in from Catholic families, Baptist, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Hoo-du, Atheist, you name it... It's public school and we have to remember that we do have separation of church and state here, take it or leave it.

Since "separation of Church and State" is simply conceptual idea (and not in the constitution) I would rather we do "leave it".

No one has yet to answer why a Congress which pays Clergy with tax money and opens up with prayer at every session would have constructed the Constitution to purposely forbid a student led prayer before a sports game?

How possible is it..... that these same men who Started this very tradition are the same "Some claim" wanted this WALL between religion and Government?

If you believe that... you have more "faith" than I ever will.

The founders were intent on two things which are in the First Amendment.

1. The Federal Govt would NOT prohibit the free exercise of religion.

2, The federal Gov would not "establish" or show a favoritism concerning Religion (or not).

In comparison to Europe which often had state sponsored churches, this freedom has allowed religion to flourish in a more competitive marketplace, for better or worse. While the US does not have a state sponsored church, it is part of the ideology of one of the major political parties in this country. This relationship can give Christianity the impression of being state sponsored and will eventually lead to a greater secularization of this country.

[AlHayatZween 2]

I which public schools are students mandated to participate in a religion?

No public schools do, which is the discussion we are having...

Edited October 4, 2009 by AlHayatZween

[Peikko 1,575]

Oh dear, mature debate left the building once Danno stepped in. Teaching sexual best practice is not anti-religious and as a bi product, it reduces pregnancy rates among teens. Who knew?

[Heracles 417]

That's just stupid. Sex is natural and sexually mature (physiologically) people are gonna have sex. Drawing an analogy between kids having sex and using drugs or dragracing is ...........well I guess it's just another Danno-ism.

Your not going to pull a Pike/six and pretend society has not changed for the worse over the years? The promotion of sex has led to it's own set of problems. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Something many, particularly those from the hippie era seem to not grasp or flat out deny. When seat belts were first introduced and mandated, accidents increased. You know why? as a side effect, people felt they were safer and consequently drove more recklessly.

It's only a matter of time before high schools start teaching poll dancing and how to give the ideal #######.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Booyah!

[Peikko 1,575]

BY, that is fanciful #######. Sex education is not about promoting sex and to continue to wilfully pretend that it is about free love and sexuality having no bounderies is to continue to promote the lies the religious right wing seem to enjoy. Sexuality is part of the human condition and children need to learn about all aspects of it not simply have their eyes and ears covered and be told to close their legs and everything will be dandy.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[Heracles 417]

But that's different from "teaching" one kind of religion over others in public schools, or holding one in preference than the others. Depends on where you are, but in a lot of schools there is no "majority of one religion." Kids are coming in from Catholic families, Baptist, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Hoo-du, Atheist, you name it... It's public school and we have to remember that we do have separation of church and state here, take it or leave it. [/color]

We do where?

Funny that attitude does not apply to gay marriages or any other new bandwagon trend for the decade. Which actually says something considering my guess 2% of the country is gay. But no, we have to change our way of life to cater for the 2%. Yet when it comes to religion, it's just wrong to cater for the 75%.

It's one thing for a teacher to discriminate about religion or indoctrinate but that is not what anyone is defending. If anyone wants to do that, they should go to a school of their choice. However, a school should never be forced to disregard and not acknowledge the beliefs of millions because a handful, a minority, are 'offended' by the belief of others.

[Heracles 417]

BY, that is fanciful #######. Sex education is not about promoting sex and to continue to wilfully pretend that it is about free love and sexuality having no bounderies is to continue to promote the lies the religious right wing seem to enjoy. Sexuality is part of the human condition and children need to learn about all aspects of it not simply have their eyes and ears covered and be told to close their legs and everything will be dandy.

Schools are there to teach an ever more difficult and expanding field of academic knowledge. They're not there to fill the gap of parents.

Funny we can teach them sex but not how to behave as normal civilized individuals in society. Apparently that is indoctrination and against freedom of choice. Yet, once these teenagers have kids because it feels good, uncle Boo is forced to pay for it.

Furthermore, a direct contradiction to this line of reasoning is that while the volume of sex ed in schools is steady or increasing, the rate of teenage pregnancies is also increasing. Which is strange considering it's apparently supposed to reduce pregnancies. With the knowledge these kids acquire about it and all right?

Edited October 4, 2009 by Booyah!

[Peikko 1,575]

Schools are there to teach whatever the current brand of educationalists deem necessary to make our kids productive members of society. Personally, I think a lot of what is being taught and the way it is taught is flawed but it is what it is and it does deliver at least a broad spectrum learning environment for most children.

I don't know what your experience with US schools is, but I don't recognize anything about this claim that they can be taught about sex but not how to behave. Currently, my experience is that being taught how to behave is given a very high priority, not least because unless the children are behaving in class they are not going to be learning very much of anything else. Prayer has nothing to do with behaving or anything else that can be construed as educational.

Lastly, the rate of teenage pregnancies is not directly inversely related to the availabity of sex education. Simply put schools are not in the business of teaching kids that sex is always good, that teens must engage in it come what may and that it has no consequneces to health or emotional welfare. Quite the reverse in fact, but without all the 'you must feel guilty and ashamed about the role of sex in society because sex is sinful unless you are married in the eyes of god' blah blah blah.