This flood shows the differences between poor filipinos and poor americans

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Bob hate to break this to you, but your inability to finish the simplest most rudimentary form of education does speak volumes about you. It shows you have no foresight in your life. You have cheated yourself and family of a better life, and future.

Again George putting words in my mouth I didn't say and then passing judgement on me based on them is ignorance at its best.

You don't know the circumstances of my childhood and teen years, they were rough to say the least and I was able to get my GED the same year I would have graduated High School scoring in the top 1% of the country.

I was on my own supporting myself before my 17th birthday. I had nobody to guide me through my teen years. What I did have was a stellar IQ, 170 at 16 years of age.

When I was finally at a point in my life where I could stop at look at higher education I had a wife and infant daughter. Sure I had difficulties holding down 3 jobs and being the primary care giver for my daughter while attending college classes so guess what got dropped? I didn't want to spend less time tending to my daughter and my wife didn't want to support my educational efforts by either putting more effort into caring for our daughter {while I tried to do school work} or earn more money so I could drop one of my jobs and thus have the time for my daughter & school.

Ironically, once I divorced the first wife and simply accepted that I was alone in raising my daughters (now 14 & 17) things got a little easier. Regrets, sure I have some. Unhappy with where I am today, not in the least bit.

I have cheated nobody. Did you even read my posts? My title is presently "Enterprise Architect", do you know what that is? In my department there is only 1 person above me and he is the Vice-President of Technology. As a result of my hard work my daughters have never gone to bed hungry or gone without a need and have in fact had many of their wants provided.

I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck. I'm neither Republican or Democrat but I have never missed voting in an election. The last good President we had was Ronald Reagan and before him I'd say FDR then Lincoln.

My OPINIONS about how much or how little the government should do are not "Blind Political Views", they are my personal opinions developed over many years as someone who is a "Self Made Man". I have witnessed a system of Social Welfare that punishes anyone who actually looks for a job by reducing their aid instantly and drastically while rewarding those who refuse to lift a finger to help them self by mandating annual increases in their benefits.

I respect the way Eastern Cultures embrace their elderly as well as their young. I wish Western Culture valued the family more than it does. How sad is it that today most of American depends on the Federal or State Governments to raise our children and care for our elderly. How did people get by 100 years ago when... oh wait... that was when they actually did it them self.

Of course there is abuse in every system and no matter how glossy things are on the surface there is always rot on the underbelly.

So Mr George, you can pass judgement all you want and try to hurl personal insults based in your own preconceived notions, they change nothing. I will gracefully bow out of this as I have nothing to prove to you and I refuse to hurl insults for the sake of sport.

Edited September 29, 2009 by Bob 4 Anna

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

you could have made your point without the insults...

Actually I doubt that as the insults were his main point.

[George&Hazel 1]

Bob hate to break this to you, but your inability to finish the simplest most rudimentary form of education does speak volumes about you. It shows you have no foresight in your life. You have cheated yourself and family of a better life, and future.

Again George putting words in my mouth I didn't say and then passing judgement on me based on them is ignorance at its best.

You don't know the circumstances of my childhood and teen years, they were rough to say the least and I was able to get my GED the same year I would have graduated High School scoring in the top 1% of the country.

I was on my own supporting myself before my 17th birthday. I had nobody to guide me through my teen years. What I did have was a stellar IQ, 170 at 16 years of age.

When I was finally at a point in my life where I could stop at look at higher education I had a wife and infant daughter. Sure I had difficulties holding down 3 jobs and being the primary care giver for my daughter while attending college classes so guess what got dropped? I didn't want to spend less time tending to my daughter and my wife didn't want to support my educational efforts by either putting more effort into caring for our daughter {while I tried to do school work} or earn more money so I could drop one of my jobs and thus have the time for my daughter & school.

Ironically, once I divorced the first wife and simply accepted that I was alone in raising my daughters (now 14 & 17) things got a little easier. Regrets, sure I have some. Unhappy with where I am today, not in the least bit.

I have cheated nobody. Did you even read my posts? My title is presently "Enterprise Architect", do you know what that is? In my department there is only 1 person above me and he is the Vice-President of Technology. As a result of my hard work my daughters have never gone to bed hungry or gone without a need and have in fact had many of their wants provided.

I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck. I'm neither Republican or Democrat but I have never missed voting in an election. The last good President we had was Ronald Reagan and before him I'd say FDR then Lincoln.

My OPINIONS about how much or how little the government should do are not "Blind Political Views", they are my personal opinions developed over many years as someone who is a "Self Made Man". I have witnessed a system of Social Welfare that punishes anyone who actually looks for a job by reducing their aid instantly and drastically while rewarding those who refuse to lift a finger to help them self by mandating annual increases in their benefits.

I respect the way Eastern Cultures embrace their elderly as well as their young. I wish Western Culture valued the family more than it does. How sad is it that today most of American depends on the Federal or State Governments to raise our children and care for our elderly. How did people get by 100 years ago when... oh wait... that was when they actually did it them self.

Of course there is abuse in every system and no matter how glossy things are on the surface there is always rot on the underbelly.

So Mr George, you can pass judgement all you want and try to hurl personal insults based in your own preconceived notions, they change nothing. I will gracefully bow out of this as I have nothing to prove to you and I refuse to hurl insults for the sake of sport.

Top 1% of the country GED? Lol funny stuff. 170 IQ. Seriously guy pretty much quit reading there. If you are going to lie. Please at the very least make it believable.

http://onemansblog.com/2007/11/08/the-mass...ighest-iq/?cp=2

Edited September 29, 2009 by George&Hazel

[rockhouse 1]

From the most recent AP article regarding the Manila floods:

"Authorities ordered extra police to be deployed to prevent looting in communities abandoned by fleeing residents, as frustration rose among those who have lost their homes or belongings"

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090929/ap_on_...ppines_flooding

Edited September 29, 2009 by rockhouse

[George&Hazel 1]

From the most recent AP article regarding the Manila floods:

"Authorities ordered extra police to be deployed to prevent looting in communities abandoned by fleeing residents, as frustration rose among those who have lost their homes or belongings"

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090929/ap_on_...ppines_flooding

I pray they can get extra police out there. Especially with a new storm coming in later this week, and possibly another next week.

[hara/eric 0]

Oh and their self reliance is because if they do nothing. Then they will starve to death. There are no social programs for the poor and sick. Given the options they will hang on to those abroad dearly, and in the end given the chance will abuse them just like an american would. People are people. The sooner you realize that. The better off you will be. There are good and bad everyplace.

Learn to appreciate your home country. Positive your fiancée will.

Wow, you really don't like for anyone to disagree with your views do you.

Learn to appreciate my home country? Where did you get that I don't?

Entitlement programs will be the downfall of our free society. What is Socialization? That is when the people are content to let the government do everything for them.

Welfare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, what a load of #######. All you have to do to qualify for them is be too lazy to try to provide for yourself. I've watched family members of mine abuse the system for years.

I've also watched the same government that rewards them for their sloth try to convince me that because of problems I had when I was a teen that I will always be a bad guy who can never be trusted. Despite that I have succeeded, I have a secure job {even in this economic climate} where I have worked for 13 years and make a good salary {despite having no college degree & only a GED}. I was raising my 2 daughters as a single father after my divorce 10 years ago without the benefit of a government hand-out.

If you want to own a house or drive a nice car then get off your a$$ and do something about it. I appreciate that my wife isn't like my ex-wife {who would rather sit around waiting for someone to do it for her}.

BTW, the mayor of Paniqui is a kind man {though his secretary looks like a night club bouncer} and is very popular with the town, never heard anyone call him Iron Fisted. There were some people who tried to take advantage while I was visiting and despite my wife's protests I didn't make a fuss about it as the amounts we small and we just joked about the "Kano Tax" when it happened.

Family should help family, I tried many times but I refused to become a personal welfare system for them so they were asked to move along. Unlike the government, I expect if you are living on my dime and eating my food that you are more productive during the day than watching my TV and surfing my Internet while I work.

Pretty positive the point is that people are people. There are good, and bad. The simple fact you want to become like a developing nation shows your ignorance. I am sorry have to say that, but it is just the way it is.

Just because you see the pleasant side of the Philippines does not mean there is not an underside to it. You are seeing what you want to see. Yeah the mayor is pleasant to you. You are bringing money to his town. He would love to have many more just like you. Of course he is not going to have someone gunned down in front of you. It does happen though.

I am a little amazed that anyone can go to a developing nation, and go wow I want to live just like that. With your background then most likely at best you are middle class in the USA. There is no middle class there to speak of. You have a two class system. Top 15% and dirt poor. The Philippines is a wonderful place if you have money, and are foreign. The fact you could not tell that you were being treated different, and was only seeing the good side speaks volumes about you.

i agree 100%. the OP's point was that filipinos somehow have a different attitude in the face of calamity..... while this is a valid opinion, and i respect that, but i strongly disagree. i think the pictures are taken out of context, nothing more. my father is filipino, and my mom is white; i grew up in little old Guam, which is a 3.5 hr flight from manila. i speak tagalog, and have spent many many vacations in the philippines. i am confident when i say, that i am a little more familiar with the culture and mentality there than the average 'foreigner.' to draw a comparison and almost imply that looting is something unique to the US, is absurd. theft happens there too, everywhere and in all forms. my family has gone through at least a dozen house workers in my lifetime, due to stealing.. perhaps blatant looting after a flood is not so common there, as the likelihood that a security guard delivering a couple shotgun rounds into your chest is enough of a deterrent. did it ever make you wonder why there's a security guard posted at practically every business establishment (ie your local "McDO," 7-eleven)??? or why they're allowed to carry firearms?? makes me wonder what it would be like without that kind of security measure in place.

anyhow, the bottom line = money talks... anywhere you go, but even moreso in the philippines. if you got it, you're golden. lastly, in reference to the main point of the thread, do i think that filipinos in general are different, somehow devoid of some of the bad sides of human nature?? ..................... absolutely not. just my 2cents.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

theft happens there too, everywhere and in all forms. my family has gone through at least a dozen house workers in my lifetime, due to stealing.. , as the likelihood that a security guard delivering a couple shotgun rounds into your chest is enough of a deterrent. did it ever make you wonder why there's a security guard posted at practically every business establishment (ie your local "McDO," 7-eleven)??? or why they're allowed to carry firearms?? makes me wonder what it would be like without that kind of security measure in place.

anyhow, the bottom line = money talks... anywhere you go, but even moreso in the philippines. if you got it, you're golden. lastly, in reference to the main point of the thread, do i think that filipinos in general are different, somehow devoid of some of the bad sides of human nature?? ..................... absolutely not. just my 2cents.

hara/eric,

I had almost forgot about the shotguns protecting KFC, at least they were nice enough to hold the door open. I'll admit it was quite shocking at first but after a week it just felt normal. The bars everywhere got my attention also, jagged glass actually embedded into the fence/wall/barrier tops around the houses. My wife simply said, "It's different here, hard but in ways that most Americans will probably not understand."

You're correct that the two pics are not exactly a fair representation of two opposing sides.

Probably the greatest thing about America is that here you do have a chance to overcome the circumstances of your birth. Born poor can work hard and make a life for them self etc.

Probably the worst thing about America is that there is such a belief {both here and abroad} that simply being here entitles a person to a better life.

In the US there is a safety net {regardless of what it's named this week} that many other countries simply don't have.

If nothing else comes away from this thread maybe it will serve to highlight how easy it is to be looking through the fence and only see the good in our neighbor's situation.

[George&Hazel 1]

theft happens there too, everywhere and in all forms. my family has gone through at least a dozen house workers in my lifetime, due to stealing.. , as the likelihood that a security guard delivering a couple shotgun rounds into your chest is enough of a deterrent. did it ever make you wonder why there's a security guard posted at practically every business establishment (ie your local "McDO," 7-eleven)??? or why they're allowed to carry firearms?? makes me wonder what it would be like without that kind of security measure in place.

anyhow, the bottom line = money talks... anywhere you go, but even moreso in the philippines. if you got it, you're golden. lastly, in reference to the main point of the thread, do i think that filipinos in general are different, somehow devoid of some of the bad sides of human nature?? ..................... absolutely not. just my 2cents.

hara/eric,

I had almost forgot about the shotguns protecting KFC, at least they were nice enough to hold the door open. I'll admit it was quite shocking at first but after a week it just felt normal. The bars everywhere got my attention also, jagged glass actually embedded into the fence/wall/barrier tops around the houses. My wife simply said, "It's different here, hard but in ways that most Americans will probably not understand."

You're correct that the two pics are not exactly a fair representation of two opposing sides.

Probably the greatest thing about America is that here you do have a chance to overcome the circumstances of your birth. Born poor can work hard and make a life for them self etc.

Probably the worst thing about America is that there is such a belief {both here and abroad} that simply being here entitles a person to a better life.

In the US there is a safety net {regardless of what it's named this week} that many other countries simply don't have.

If nothing else comes away from this thread maybe it will serve to highlight how easy it is to be looking through the fence and only see the good in our neighbor's situation.

170 IQ, and forgetting little things such as armed guards at entrance to every store.......... You were here spouting how the USA sucks and the Philippines rules on the back of the worst flood in Manila for 40 or so years directly affecting many of personally. To use this tragedy a such as this as a bully pulpit is disgraceful. You see what you want to and that is your right. Just do not go spouting this ####### when it is touching many of us in a personal manner.

As a side note. Anyone with a true IQ of 170 would not feel the need to brag about it to a group of strangers on a web forum. At this point nothing you say can have any validity. There is some Filipino honesty for you.

Edited September 29, 2009 by George&Hazel

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Blatant racist posts have been removed.

The rest of you - stop the insults and personal attacks. They add absolutely nothing to the discussion. Bickering back and forth is the behaviour of children, not adults. You can discuss personal opinions and the different reactions to tragic circumstances you have observed without insulting and denigrating the beliefs or viewpoints of others. If this behaviour continues this thread will be closed.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

170 IQ, and forgetting little things such as armed guards at entrance to every store..........

Do a little research:

The "Genius" brain

The genius brain tends to have one or more talents that are exceptionally large. These are usually real differences -- the people will actually be born with genetic instructions to develop some areas of the brain an extra amount.

The "absent-minded professor." There is often a price to pay for being a genius. There is only so much room inside the skull for cortex, even with it folded a lot. There is a tendency for geniuses to be very strong in some talents yet noticeably weak in others. If one pie slice is extra big, then other pie slices may get sacrificed, as shown in the diagram above.

Stories about Albert Einstein being absent-minded make the rest of us normal people feel a little less intimidated. Ironically, he was a genius in math talents, but was famous for his forgetfullness about time and schedules. Appropriately, he invented the theory of relativity where time was no longer very important.

Norbert Weiner, who invented the field of cybernetics, was the prototype of the absent-minded genius. Once, Weiner forgot he’d driven to a conference, took the bus home, and then reported his car stolen when he didn’t see it in his driveway.

A hero of aviation, Dr. Theodore Von Karman is the model absent-minded professor. After he returns from a long trip, dozens of hats that he has lost dribble back by mail. During the war he was followed around by a special functionary whose duty it was to pick up secret documents that Von Karman left in taxis or hotel lobbies. He is never conscious of traffic: he crosses the most dangerous highway as if it were a country lane. His driving is as famous as his absentmindedness. A friend once suggested that he get three smashed fenders fixed. "Not yet," said Von Karman. He was waiting until he smashed the fourth.

Where the "absent-mindedness" will show up depends upon which other talents were sacrificed to make room for the super talent. Many times it may not be anything noticeable, such as a great musician who might be weak in navigating his way around a supermarket (because most of the spatial area was devoted to musical perception rather than visual perception). However, the "Yes" creative area of the brain is often large at the expense of the lower "No" or inhibition center, producing a genius who acts "funny" or uninhibited.

As a side note. Anyone with a true IQ of 170 would not feel the need to brag about it to a group of strangers on a web forum.

I never "bragged" about anything, you implied that I lacked the intelligence to complete even the most basic of education to which I responded with my intelligence as measured at that time (which was over 20 years ago) and a list of my professional accomplishments since.

Through this entire exchange I have not resorted to personal attacks on you even once.

You on the other hand are demonstrating that you will reply with hatred & malice to every post in make in this thread.

WE DON'T SHARE THE SAME OPINIONS, I think everyone here gets that. Enough said...

Now I kindly request that if you feel the need to continue your personal diatribe against me please find a more suitable platform as this is not the proper place for it.

On a side-side note: I never professed to put too much stock in the results of a test contrived to measure the intelligence of a person (the IQ thing). I think the GED percentile results are more indicative of my abilities {at that time} despite the fact that most people who tested for the GED in that particular year were 5+ years older than myself. I believe my accomplishments as an adult speak to my intelligence, resourcefulness and other abilities.

Edited September 29, 2009 by Bob 4 Anna

[George&Hazel 1]

Guy you were busted in a lie. Get over it, and move on.

[Ban Hammer 13,105]

[hara/eric 0]

theft happens there too, everywhere and in all forms. my family has gone through at least a dozen house workers in my lifetime, due to stealing.. , as the likelihood that a security guard delivering a couple shotgun rounds into your chest is enough of a deterrent. did it ever make you wonder why there's a security guard posted at practically every business establishment (ie your local "McDO," 7-eleven)??? or why they're allowed to carry firearms?? makes me wonder what it would be like without that kind of security measure in place.

anyhow, the bottom line = money talks... anywhere you go, but even moreso in the philippines. if you got it, you're golden. lastly, in reference to the main point of the thread, do i think that filipinos in general are different, somehow devoid of some of the bad sides of human nature?? ..................... absolutely not. just my 2cents.

hara/eric,

I had almost forgot about the shotguns protecting KFC, at least they were nice enough to hold the door open. I'll admit it was quite shocking at first but after a week it just felt normal. The bars everywhere got my attention also, jagged glass actually embedded into the fence/wall/barrier tops around the houses. My wife simply said, "It's different here, hard but in ways that most Americans will probably not understand."

You're correct that the two pics are not exactly a fair representation of two opposing sides.

Probably the greatest thing about America is that here you do have a chance to overcome the circumstances of your birth. Born poor can work hard and make a life for them self etc.

Probably the worst thing about America is that there is such a belief {both here and abroad} that simply being here entitles a person to a better life.

In the US there is a safety net {regardless of what it's named this week} that many other countries simply don't have.

If nothing else comes away from this thread maybe it will serve to highlight how easy it is to be looking through the fence and only see the good in our neighbor's situation.

i agree with you to an extent.. yes, there is opportunity in the US, given you have the work ethic. but how often does it happen? what percent of all the poor in the US actually move up a class in their lifetime?? yeah, we know Oprah's story, and see NBA players, or actors do it.. but i personally think it's rare.. if born poor, you will most likely die poor... i am assuming that you're implying the philippines lack a similar 'chance' or opportunity.. and if so, i disagree. I believe there is opportunity there as well. it may be a smaller window, but it does exist, for those that are motivated enough to work hard... you can see many success stories there too, if you look hard enough.. look at how many freakin nurses the PI generates every year, or at all the workers abroad. my father is filipino and came from a poor family in the PI. but he was extremely motivated to make a better life for himself. long story -> short, he became a successful dentist and was able to provide more than enough for me and my siblings... most importantly was education. I in turn, comitted most my life to school, and worked extremely hard to become a physician, so i too, can one day provide for my family.. had i been born into poverty, i almost positive i would not be where i am today.

not to sidetrack, but i wanted to also mention that i believe that work ethic does not hold the same value to the average person here compared to the PI. i know i may get flamed for this , but it is my opinion from personal experience. i am very much proud to be filipino, but there are things about philippine culture that bother me, and some that make me ashamed.. i think few have solid work ethic, the "go getter" mentality. i've never seen so much A.M. alcohol consumption and lounging around as i've seen there.. and if you do have a job, it doesn't matter what your doing at the time, if 12 noon hits, you stop whatever you're doing because it's lunch time! it doesn't seem like a common thing to work through lunch, or just grab a quick snack here or there. lastly, punctuality. being on time for things just doesn't mean as much in the philippines as it does here. some of you may have already noticed this from your own experiences, and to my fellow pinays reading this, you know what i am talking about. ;p.. my 2cents.

[gennyangel 3]

Perhaps you would love their government also? There is a reason people want want to leave the Philippines so bad. It is a great place if you have money. For the masses it is a horrible place to live

Horrible? Do you have facts on this one? I would say this s absolutely wrong. What bad about the government of the Philippines is the corruption. But can you tell me where else in this world has a government without corruption?...

Professional tends to work abroad to reach their dreams like filipino engineers working in a middle east,for one thing they saw better opportunities or better paying jobs..

There are yes Filipino's migrated to other countries but they keep on going back for a vacation because they miss the Philippines so much..

Philippines is not a horrible place to live,i love Philippines and will always come back..It will always be my home!!!

No matter what! Philippines is a beautiful place...

[George&Hazel 1]

Perhaps you would love their government also? There is a reason people want want to leave the Philippines so bad. It is a great place if you have money. For the masses it is a horrible place to live

Horrible? Do you have facts on this one? I would say this s absolutely wrong. What bad about the government of the Philippines is the corruption. But can you tell me where else in this world has a government without corruption?...

Professional tends to work abroad to reach their dreams like filipino engineers working in a middle east,for one thing they saw better opportunities or better paying jobs..

There are yes Filipino's migrated to other countries but they keep on going back for a vacation because they miss the Philippines so much..

Philippines is not a horrible place to live,i love Philippines and will always come back..It will always be my home!!!

No matter what! Philippines is a beautiful place...

Do not disagree. I loved my time there. Would not want to live there with no pesos sadly.... That in the end was the point. A weak central government filled with corruption. It is not a great place to be with no money. Which from my experience most Filipinos do not have.

Edited September 30, 2009 by George&Hazel