Europe or US to meet? Visa questions.

[eekee 182]

Right, an extended stay with relatives. Not a resident.

[visaveteran 1]

I guess jumping to conclusions is OK if you're the one doing it. I have not looked at a mail order bride site in years. I met my wife through a referral from another Russian woman. I have lived in the FSU for a total of 18 weeks with my longest stay at 60 days. I've lived in 6 different cities including one in Siberia. I don't know but I think I've got most guys beat with time on the ground in Russia. I draw a lot of my impressions and data from my experiences in country.

Hispanic women are here because they can walk across the border. I personally don't see a lot of American born men married to Mexican women but maybe it's different in Texas or the southwest. The Philippines is a smaller but significant area for "mail order brides." The thing with Russia is how big the damn place is. Again, it's the magnitude. Compare the Russian female population to that of the Philippines.

18 weeks amounts to what? Four months give or take, right?

If so, you don't have ME beat. I did the four months (two and two) in just two trips. All other trips were for days or just over a week. However, I already lost count how many "short" trips to Russia I have made in the last 10 years.

In terms of cities, you do not beat me either. I have lived during more than 24 hours in a total of eight Russian cities. And if you include other FSU countries like Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, and Estonia, the city count goes over 20.

Even so, I feel that I have seen just a small microcosm of what Russia and their people are all about. But still, I have my reasons to believe that if you can meet a girl outside Russia, like in Turkey or Egypt, you will have a better time and your experience will be more satisfying.

This reminds me a little story on my first visit to Russia. I took the train from Helsinki to St. Petersburg and back. Upon entering Finland again, we had to cross two checkpoints: Russian and Finish.

The policeman in the Russian side even made me count the money I had inside my wallet in front of him. He probably thought that I was lying on my customs form. It was scary, to say the least.

The policeman in the Finish side was quite a big guy and he approached me with a very serious demeanor ... until he saw my passport. Then he asked a few friendly questions, like what I was doing in Russia. The final question ended up as follows:

Policeman: So, what do you think of Russia?

Myself: It's different!

Policeman: (BIG smile, while giving me the passport) -> very different, indeed!

This experience made me realize why many Russians covet a European or American passport. Make your own conclusions!

P.S.: This is not a Hispanic forum, so I am going to keep my mouth shut about that. However, don't you dare make conclusions about what you probably know nothing about. Hispanic is NOT only Mexico (last time I checked, that is the only Hispanic country that borders the USA).

Edit: quick spelling corrections!

I think it was you who brought up Hispanics in the first place but maybe it was someone else. I do know that Columbia was a popular country for mail order brides. I know a man who married a Latina woman from Columbia and later divorced and married a Russian woman. I think any discussion of Hispanic immigration to the USA is unavoidably controversial for obvious reasons. You can put up all the angry faces you want. I'm not impressed.

My wife and I waited along time for her to get her legal papers and visa. It angers me that 12 million people got in unfairly and make life more difficult for all those seeking legal immigration.

[visaveteran 1]

Right, an extended stay with relatives. Not a resident.

Obviously I was not a resident. I said I lived in Russia for a total of 18 weeks. I don't see that as inaccurate. It's hard to stay in Russia over 30 days which I personally classify as a tourist stay. Over 30 days and you're into a different world in Russia with different visas and issues.

But if it's so important to you, I'll state I was not a resident of Russia.

[visaveteran 1]

I have lived in the FSU for a total of 18 weeks with my longest stay at 60 days. I've lived in 6 different cities including one in Siberia. I don't know but I think I've got most guys beat with time on the ground in Russia. I draw a lot of my impressions and data from my experiences in country.

I'm not interested in getting in the middle of all of the Uhhhhhhh.... "stuff" that's flying back and forth here, but if you consider 60 days inside a country as having "lived" there, then that officially makes me a citizen of SVO2!

Well, I ate food I helped cook, breathed air, lived in a flat, rode the buses and taxis. Shopped at the markets, went into the mountains and actually spent some time in the hospital...I don't know but I'd say I was living there. I sure was not a tourist.

My guess is most American men spend a lot less time in country than me...but I'm all ears and waiting to here feedback.

As I said, unless you have a real life there--a job, a flat that you are not just a guest in, a circle of friends, real ties--it's not LIVING there. Did you have any other purpose in being there besides hanging out and seeing sights? Still tourist in my book.

I'm laughing as I reread your post here. I realized that my wife, who has lived in the US for quite some time, would not meet your criteria for "living" in a country. She has no job, no lease, no close circle of friends, blah blah blah. Maybe you need to retool your definition.

[visaveteran 1]

Simply said, do we talk about the women of the Soviet Union, or the women of Russia?

Russia and Ukraine have very different economies and cultures are only loosely related. There has been no Soviet Union for for almost 20 years. You can say they are all FSU countries, but truisms in Ukraine are not necessarily going to be truisms in Russia. If you want to lump all the FSU countries together, you should probably lump all of Asia too, because it would make about as much sense.

I was "living" with my wife in her home which is actually my home by marriage (technically anyway). The weather was as harsh as I have ever experienced. Let me just say it was a LONG 60 days. Tourist? More like survivor.

Heh. I agree with ekee (shocker, I know ) but I won't disagree with you when it comes to the cold. That's a cold that just goes right through you, grabs you by the nuts, and shakes vigorously.

The FSU had a common language, leadership, and the same communist social order. Any differences have come about in the short 20 years since its fall...not a historically long period of time. Asia has no such common connections or joint history.

I should add that all "Russian Bride" web sites I've ever seen have a database that includes women from all SU countries...so I guess they agree with me. Is a Russian woman from Latvia drastically different than one from Moscow?

I can relate to your description of cold...yes, it goes straight to the family jewels. Gives new meaning to "numb nuts."

[mox 298]

The FSU had a common language, leadership, and the same communist social order. Any differences have come about in the short 20 years since its fall...not a historically long period of time. Asia has no such common connections or joint history.

I should add that all "Russian Bride" web sites I've ever seen have a database that includes women from all SU countries...so I guess they agree with me. Is a Russian woman from Latvia drastically different than one from Moscow?

I have a very good friend from Ukraine (I'll call her Illona), who considers herself Russian. Her parents were Russian and moved to Dnipropetrovsk in the late '80s. She herself was born in Ukraine in about 1984, but she grew up in a Russian "ethnic" community filled with Russian expats and their families.

My wife, who is Russian, can barely understand Illona, even though they speak the same language. Illona's accent is heavy, and her Russian is just different enough to make it difficult to understand. I get the impression it's like us trying to understand heavy Scottish or Irish speakers. My wife does not consider Illona to be Russian at all, even though Illona considers herself to be Russian through-and-through.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Illona grew up in a Russian community in Ukraine, was brought up as Russian, considers herself Russian, and yet she couldn't pass for Russian if she tried. Think about Ukrainians who didn't grow up in "Russian" communities.

We share a common language with the English too, and yet our two countries couldn't be different. 20 years isn't "short" at all. A LOT has happened between then and now.

I suspect what you're seeing from the Russian bride sites is an attempt to make all FSU women seem the same. Business-wise, it's easier that way, because then you don't have to think about how much different a woman from Dnipropetrovsk might be from a woman from St. Petersburg.

[clueless_in_usa 8]

I think it was you who brought up Hispanics in the first place but maybe it was someone else. I do know that Columbia was a popular country for mail order brides. I know a man who married a Latina woman from Columbia and later divorced and married a Russian woman. I think any discussion of Hispanic immigration to the USA is unavoidably controversial for obvious reasons. You can put up all the angry faces you want. I'm not impressed.

My wife and I waited along time for her to get her legal papers and visa. It angers me that 12 million people got in unfairly and make life more difficult for all those seeking legal immigration.

The fact that you do not even know the official spelling of ColOmbia is proof enough that you know nothing about the Latin-American culture (it is wrong to say Hispanic culture if you do not include Spain - a Hispanic country - and if you do not want to exclude Brazil - a Latin, but not Hispanic country).

According to the definition I found in Internet:

His·pan·ic (h-spnk)

adj.

1. Of or relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America.

2. Of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture.

Besides, this is a Russian forum, so let us not talk about what we barely know. Continue with the discussion regarding Russia and its women.

P.S.: It was not me who brought up the topic of Hispanic people. But if you want me to, I can tell you all I know about Hispanic people and the Hispanic culture (because to tell the truth, I know very little about Brazil).

P.S.2: Let us not blame Latin immigrants about your frustrations either. Latins are not the only illegals in this country. I personally know more illegals from other countries (Ireland, Poland, Russia, Lithuania, and other Europeans) than illegals from Latin America. Therefore, please do not generalize.

[mox 298]

Eh...to be fair, criticizing somebody's spelling and/or grammar on an internet forum is sorta like criticizing a hooker for a run in her stocking. Both criticisms are both technically valid, but neither are apropos to the business at hand.

[Rutherford 0]

Yes , as some others have expressed , go to Russia and visit her family and friends , that's what I did , as the experienced suggested to me.

My wife and her Russian girl friend has said , America is very much like old SU , lots of law and order .

Russia is full of corruption and has almost no order , my wife's stories explains it all , only if you could hear her.

No regulations when building tall apts , they fall down a lot .

The local police grabbing kids out later at night , demanding money to release them .

The stories are endless .

I never had a problem in my 18 days there in Chelny

[Rob_Lesya 4]

No regulations when building tall apts , they fall down a lot .

Reminds me very much of one of my trips to Moscow --- I happened to be there at the time when the roof collapsed on the huge aquapark in Moscow (I don't remember the exact date--- late 2003, early 2004). Anyway, while I was there I was reading an article in one of the magazines where they were interviewing some of the city planners talking about the growing trend of building taller and taller buildings in Moscow. And they actually said that one of the problems was that they had no building codes and no fire protection codes, etc that covered such tall buildings. And they actually quoted one of the guys saying that the only way they could develop such codes was to build a tall building and wait for something bad to happen --- then they could write the proper codes to prevent it from happening again.

I'm thinking --- Uhhhhhhhh..... so you've never heard of "structural engineering"???..... or "Computer modeling"???..... or maybe even, I don't know, simply looking at other cities that have built tall buildings and "borrowing" some of their codes and regulations???

[slim 1,525]

Wow! I missed one weekend and missed all of this. Great job RUBbers!

Just for the record - I think the OP should go meet his girl wherever he can afford to meet her. Set her up to expect exotic travel vacations, everything to be taken care of, etc. Because if you can afford it... why not?

However, if you can't afford it forever, try to go meet her at home or have her come here. Perhaps she could get a visa to "explore job options or advanced degree programs" in the U.S.? Sounds like a pretty good reason for a visa, no? Visas for young single women have been getting easier provided they have a good reason to visit and a better reason to go home. Try to set it up as some kind of "exchange" program through the universities. That sounds legit, doesn't it?

[Rutherford 0]

No regulations when building tall apts , they fall down a lot .

Reminds me very much of one of my trips to Moscow --- I happened to be there at the time when the roof collapsed on the huge aquapark in Moscow (I don't remember the exact date--- late 2003, early 2004). Anyway, while I was there I was reading an article in one of the magazines where they were interviewing some of the city planners talking about the growing trend of building taller and taller buildings in Moscow. And they actually said that one of the problems was that they had no building codes and no fire protection codes, etc that covered such tall buildings. And they actually quoted one of the guys saying that the only way they could develop such codes was to build a tall building and wait for something bad to happen --- then they could write the proper codes to prevent it from happening again.

I'm thinking --- Uhhhhhhhh..... so you've never heard of "structural engineering"???..... or "Computer modeling"???..... or maybe even, I don't know, simply looking at other cities that have built tall buildings and "borrowing" some of their codes and regulations???

Larisa tells me they are tight on regulating restaurants , but nothing more .

Food supply , medicine , anything that comes from China is bad bad bad .

I met no one who did not wnat to return to the SU days , life was better then .

I know it was not better for all.

As far as building codes , , they did fine before the crash of the union , why not reach out to other first world countries for help .

Russia is a pathetic country , they have wasted years of social evolution, I mean they are far behind the rest of the would in sooo many ways , they have done much harm to the people because isolation .

To be honest , when my wife talks about the old days , I sometimes wish I was there

[visaveteran 1]

The FSU had a common language, leadership, and the same communist social order. Any differences have come about in the short 20 years since its fall...not a historically long period of time. Asia has no such common connections or joint history.

I should add that all "Russian Bride" web sites I've ever seen have a database that includes women from all SU countries...so I guess they agree with me. Is a Russian woman from Latvia drastically different than one from Moscow?

I have a very good friend from Ukraine (I'll call her Illona), who considers herself Russian. Her parents were Russian and moved to Dnipropetrovsk in the late '80s. She herself was born in Ukraine in about 1984, but she grew up in a Russian "ethnic" community filled with Russian expats and their families.

My wife, who is Russian, can barely understand Illona, even though they speak the same language. Illona's accent is heavy, and her Russian is just different enough to make it difficult to understand. I get the impression it's like us trying to understand heavy Scottish or Irish speakers. My wife does not consider Illona to be Russian at all, even though Illona considers herself to be Russian through-and-through.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Illona grew up in a Russian community in Ukraine, was brought up as Russian, considers herself Russian, and yet she couldn't pass for Russian if she tried. Think about Ukrainians who didn't grow up in "Russian" communities.

We share a common language with the English too, and yet our two countries couldn't be different. 20 years isn't "short" at all. A LOT has happened between then and now.

I suspect what you're seeing from the Russian bride sites is an attempt to make all FSU women seem the same. Business-wise, it's easier that way, because then you don't have to think about how much different a woman from Dnipropetrovsk might be from a woman from St. Petersburg.

I hear you say that the various regional differences and dialects and accents are an issue for the people who live there (biases and prejudices)...but I'm not sure how that would impact on an American man who can't speak the language anyway (probably) and would judge a woman more on looks and personality and kindness, etc. Unless you tell me that a Russian woman in the Ukraine makes a better wife than one in Moscow, I don't see the a reason to separate them out by country of residence.

I could make a similar argument that a Russia woman from Moscow is different than one from Siberia and speaks Russian differently also. I think, again, the key issue is how an American man reacts to a Russian woman from various areas. My common sense view is that it's about the individual person and not where they reside or their dialect.

[visaveteran 1]

I think it was you who brought up Hispanics in the first place but maybe it was someone else. I do know that Columbia was a popular country for mail order brides. I know a man who married a Latina woman from Columbia and later divorced and married a Russian woman. I think any discussion of Hispanic immigration to the USA is unavoidably controversial for obvious reasons. You can put up all the angry faces you want. I'm not impressed.

My wife and I waited along time for her to get her legal papers and visa. It angers me that 12 million people got in unfairly and make life more difficult for all those seeking legal immigration.

The fact that you do not even know the official spelling of ColOmbia is proof enough that you know nothing about the Latin-American culture (it is wrong to say Hispanic culture if you do not include Spain - a Hispanic country - and if you do not want to exclude Brazil - a Latin, but not Hispanic country).

According to the definition I found in Internet:

His·pan·ic (h-spnk)

adj.

1. Of or relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America.

2. Of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture.

Besides, this is a Russian forum, so let us not talk about what we barely know. Continue with the discussion regarding Russia and its women.

P.S.: It was not me who brought up the topic of Hispanic people. But if you want me to, I can tell you all I know about Hispanic people and the Hispanic culture (because to tell the truth, I know very little about Brazil).

P.S.2: Let us not blame Latin immigrants about your frustrations either. Latins are not the only illegals in this country. I personally know more illegals from other countries (Ireland, Poland, Russia, Lithuania, and other Europeans) than illegals from Latin America. Therefore, please do not generalize.

I agree that this is not a "Hispanic" forum so I'd be happy to drop the subject...yet you continue to extend the discussion. It's absurd to say there are more illegals from Ireland, Poland, Russia, etc. than Latinos. I doubt there are 12 million illegal Irish people in the USA. And the 12 million Latinos does not include the millions that got amnesty under Reagan back in the 1980s. :angry: :angry: :angry:

[K1researcher 0]

historical note point..

former FSU countries have little social and cultural ties to Russia as a whole.... This is a horrible misconception and really really a diservice to the indivdual cultures and histories from all FSU terrories.

Ukraine and Russia are VERY VERY different. They were only joined with Russian government for 60 years ... That certainly does not make them russian by any stretch of the imagination. By that logic Hong Kong is indentical to England .....