Europe or US to meet? Visa questions.

[BTalley 0]

This is one of the reasons we are waiting til the spring. We thought the weather would be better and we would have more time to get to know one another as well.

I've heard spring is not a great time. Still chilly and usually rainy.

I visited in February 2008 and then again in late July. Got to see a Russian winter and summer in Saint-Petersburg.

[Jeff and Tatiana 0]

World Travelers. Globe Trotters. Jet Set. OK, well I am none of those, but being a engineer who has traveled extensively for almost 20 years of my life from all over Europe to every State in the Union, I can say Russia was very unique. It may not be for everyone, this is true. But, one thing is certain, it is where she is now and where her life is at this time. You get a chance to see her life, her friends, family and loved ones. You see the ins and outs of what her life is like.

If you choose to spend only a few days in her home city then go to Moscow or St. Petersburg or wherever, it is up to you to create the stories and adventures of this time together. I think though, it matters not where you are as long as it is with this lady? Anyway, I went to Moscow myself, stayed in the Arabat area, just one train ride away from Red Square, it was during Christmas/New Years. OMG, it is amazing. We took a cab once, just to get from point a to point b, due to my butt being tired of walking all over. Next thing I knew we had our very own personal tour guide. My "Tanya" told the driver I wanted to see a few locations, next thing we know we are being escorted all over with descriptions of every thing from who built what and who lived where. It was a unique experiance I would not trade for anything. Red Square? Oh, well while there we wound up in a wedding party!

I cannot tell you what your experiance or adventure will be like, no one can. All we can do is tell you what ours was like. Me? I loved it. I have since been to St. Petersburg and Kiev also to visit my eventual wife. Each and every trip was its own special memory I will always cherrish.

There has been a good bit of wonderful advice on this thread so far, read through it and hopefully you will find the nuggets that help you make your decision. I echo everyone's sentiments in one area especially, Welcome to our Nutty Little Forum. )

[clueless_in_usa 8]

If you choose to spend only a few days in her home city then go to Moscow or St. Petersburg or wherever, it is up to you to create the stories and adventures of this time together. I think though, it matters not where you are as long as it is with this lady? Anyway, I went to Moscow myself, stayed in the Arabat area, just one train ride away from Red Square, it was during Christmas/New Years. OMG, it is amazing. We took a cab once, just to get from point a to point b, due to my butt being tired of walking all over. Next thing I knew we had our very own personal tour guide. My "Tanya" told the driver I wanted to see a few locations, next thing we know we are being escorted all over with descriptions of every thing from who built what and who lived where. It was a unique experiance I would not trade for anything. Red Square? Oh, well while there we wound up in a wedding party!

I cannot tell you what your experiance or adventure will be like, no one can. All we can do is tell you what ours was like. Me? I loved it. I have since been to St. Petersburg and Kiev also to visit my eventual wife. Each and every trip was its own special memory I will always cherrish.

There has been a good bit of wonderful advice on this thread so far, read through it and hopefully you will find the nuggets that help you make your decision. I echo everyone's sentiments in one area especially, Welcome to our Nutty Little Forum. )

Let me tell you how else your story can be, especially in Moscow:

You are walking on Arbat with your girlfriend. You talk, walk, and take pictures here and there. Then you decide to take a picture with the cow that adorns the street near a cafe. In summary, you look like a true tourist.

As a result three policemen approach you and ask you for your documentation. They do not ask your girlfriend because they know she is Russian. They isolate you and harass you in front of her. You give them your passport and your registration. At this moment you are at their mercy because they have your documents.

They check everything which the hotel gave you and they know that everything checks alright. Despite that, because you are a tourist they ask you for another "necessary document," which indeed you do not have. You try to convince them that you gave them everything you need to give them, but they threaten you with taking you to jail if you do not fabricate this key document.

Imagine how bad you would feel if you had to deal with that and at the same time you did not know Russian and you did not know the truth about necessary documents in Russia, both of which did not apply to me. Besides, my girlfriend spoke both English and Russian perfectly and she was nearby all the time.

Fortunately my girlfriend convinced them to talk to the hotel reception on the phone, something they adamantly refused to do while they threatened me with jail. The security desk at the hotel asked the man on the phone for his name and badge number, and he answered with lies (fake name and number). At this point he hung up the phone because he realized that the hotel was not playing games and he was getting himself into a tough situation. This policeman returned the phone to me, gave me a lecture about what I should have next time, and gave me my documents back suggesting that I was lucky this time.

This experience did not include jail because I was in a hotel with a strong security desk that has contacts with the main police departments. This is so because this class of hotels makes every effort to take care of their guests. If I had been in a Russian style hotel, the outcome would have been very different (and it indeed was different one previous time in the past -> they took my girlfriend to jail because they thought that I was a foreigner paying for her "services").

So, if you decide to go to Russia, do not think that you are in a civilized western European country and throw cation to the wind. Even the police are ready to give you something to talk about when you return.

I hope that you take into consideration both sides of the coin when making your decision. YMMV, and feel yourself lucky if you only have good stories to tell, like "Jeff and Tatiana" above.

[baron555 934]

There are police in many cities across the globe that like to hassle tourists; I don't think Russia has the market cornered on that.

Edited September 27, 2009 by baron555

[mox 298]

My Russian police experience is much different. When flying through the Kazan airport, which gets a very low number of Westerners, a policeman took my passport at the ID check. They told me I could have it back when I passed through the metal detector, which took close to an hour. Most of that hour I kept thinking "here I am, almost literally in the heart of Russia, with no identification, holy #######." When I passed through, there were 2 other police all standing there looking like I was in big trouble. Then the guy with my passport gave it back and asked if they could take their picture with me. They spent about 5 minutes taking pictures and trying to speak in very broken English with me, smiling, laughing, shaking my hands. I showed them some pictures of my kids, and one of them showed me a picture of his daughter. It was pretty cool.

Which is not to say I haven't had problems, although never with the law. Russia, even Moscow and St. Petersburg, is difficult to get around if you're a Westerner. In one case, she put me on a bus with instructions that all I had to do was get off at the stop just over the second bridge, and my apartment was a couple blocks away. I still managed to get lost, turning a 20 minute bus ride into a 2 hour...er..."adventure." The bus systems in smaller cities are often ad hoc and impossible to comprehend unless you're a local. Navigating Sheremetyevo can bring a grown man to tears, and the "customer service" people are often rude and unhelpful. Hotels and apartment rentals are hit and miss in terms of quality and amenities, some of the food won't sit with you well, and yes sometimes people will be downright rude and insulting. You might see some pretty heartbreaking scenes, such as drunk homeless children, and there are some places that are just downright dangerous for a Westerner to be, which is why you need to really rely on your girl when exploring her home turf. It's not all rainbows and puppies, for sure.

Yet for every downside, if you keep an open mind there are going to be dozens of upsides. There's beauty, art, culture, and a certain spirit about the Russian people that you simply have to experience firsthand. It just can't be described, but if you have an adventurous heart and a curious mind, you'll revel in it and already be planning your next trip before your plane even pulls back from the gate.

There are police in many cities across the globe that like to hassle tourists; I don't think Russia has the market cornered on that.

Absolutely. I spent 48 hours in a Saudi jail for running a red light, and in Portugal a cop asked for my wallet while checking my ID (passport wasn't good enough I guess) and took all my cash before handing it back. It happens everywhere.

Edited September 27, 2009 by mox

[Jeff and Tatiana 0]

Landed in India with a bunch of equipment, they confiscated the equipment, then detained me as the paperwork was not properly done (lie). /sigh, I took the maximum out I could from my debit card (be sure to limit this on all your credit cards before leaving because of this exact reason), after contacting our HR person in the States (who is from India), he made some choice phone calls, I paid that person the money I got ($200) and I was eventually let into the country. It was crazy, took almost 30 Hours for the entire hassel. Oh and the equipment I was to install / demo and such? Yeah, we had to send a new shipment over they kept the other stuff, so I was in country for 3 weeks till I could finaly leave, which is another story.

I agree, each place can be hard, my Tanya speaks English fluently as well as Russian, so I had a advantage getting around Russia. Just be alert to your suroundings, register with the state department before you leave, make copies of your passport, visa and put your return ticket in a seperate place to your other documents. There are tons of precuations, but if you have already traveled to Europe before, then I am thinking you know them.

Just try to have FUN.

[visaveteran 1]

There are police in many cities across the globe that like to hassle tourists; I don't think Russia has the market cornered on that.

Could you give us some specific details? Your personal experiences across the globe with the police? Or was that just an empty unprovable statement?

I've been to every western Europe country and never had any issues with the police. Same for Mexico and some Caribbean islands even.

Of course, random bad luck can happen...but in Russian there's nothing random about crooked police: it's a way of life.

[mox 298]

There are police in many cities across the globe that like to hassle tourists; I don't think Russia has the market cornered on that.

Could you give us some specific details? Your personal experiences across the globe with the police? Or was that just an empty unprovable statement?

So...you think baron555 is lying? Let's look at your own "specific details":

Russia is a harsh country run by a dictatorship and still operates on the old feudal system. Exploit the lowly citizens to better the life of the few wealthy...like in the USA only far worse. The living proof is the mass exodus of the Russian people to other places...especially the USA. I can't turn around without bumping into people from the FSU. With the current economic crisis, life in Russia, outside of it's two facade modern cities, life is brutal and costly. Food prices have shot up and it's worse each day.

I don't see a lot of "specifics" here, just some vague generalizations.

I really don't get you vv. I get that you don't like Russia. I mean, I REALLY get it, you've made it clear as day. But what I don't get is why you have to run everyone else down who had different experiences and who hold contrary views to your own. You call us "choirboys" and accuse us of misleading a poster into going to Russia to spread the misery around or something, not real clear on that exactly. Couldn't it just be that many of us had different experiences?

I also don't get why you participate in these discussions. You always wind up sounding pissed off and angry. I just don't understand what you could be getting out of all of this, unless you just want to be disruptive. But you're not even really being disruptive, you're just kind of being a parody of disruptive. It's amusing and all, but that's about it.

You don't have to agree with everyone, or even anyone. But I think you'd be happier if instead of running everyone down who doesn't hold your opinions, you just agreed to disagree.

[Neonred 3,569]

OR, on the other hand, the OP can take the advice of clueless and vv and tell his girl that he understands that Russia is a corrupt $hit hole of a country and he won't visit her there. Let's see how well that works for him.

[clueless_in_usa 8]

There are police in many cities across the globe that like to hassle tourists; I don't think Russia has the market cornered on that.

Could you give us some specific details? Your personal experiences across the globe with the police? Or was that just an empty unprovable statement?

I've been to every western Europe country and never had any issues with the police. Same for Mexico and some Caribbean islands even.

Of course, random bad luck can happen...but in Russian there's nothing random about crooked police: it's a way of life.

I don't know about baron555, but I have been harassed by police in three different countries: Russia, Nicaragua, and Venezuela. Unfortunately, based on my experience, that is the way of life in those countries, even with locals. Despite that, I refuse to bribe the police, especially when I know that I am right. So far it has worked, because I have got off the harassment for free every time.

By the way, I was also harassed by police in a very big way in here, the US of A. And I am not talking about custom officers (it is normal for them to harass men traveling alone), but instead I am talking about city police in Mississippi. I was treated (literally) like a drug trafficker, even though I did nothing wrong. After about an hour I was let go ... with a warning: leave this town as soon as possible! That was the only time I have been seriously threatened by police.

[clueless_in_usa 8]

OR, on the other hand, the OP can take the advice of clueless and vv and tell his girl that he understands that Russia is a corrupt $hit hole of a country and he won't visit her there. Let's see how well that works for him.

I did not say that Russia is a corrupt $hit hole, so do not put words in my mouth. I gave a specific example of what happened to me, because all the Russia lovers painted it like a wonderful place to go, when in reality foreigners have to be more careful there than any country in western Europe.

By the way, I only gave my own example and I did not mention the example of a Russian girlfriend who went to visit her family for a week (from USA) and had to remain there one month because the first day in the Moscow metro somebody cut her bag with a knife and stole her money ($750) and all her documents, including passport (Russian) and Green Card. After such trip she said (a Russian woman with family in Russia) to me: I will never go back!

So, my point is to warn people about the other side of the coin. All others are already ready to talk about the wonders of going to Russia. Therefore, I have nothing else to add to that.

Despite talking about bad experiences, I did not qualify Russia as a $hit hole. You just did, though.

[zqt3344 21]

You need to go to Russia and stay with her and her family and allow at least a month to do this or as long as you can, so you can meet her family and see just how she is to live around or with and how she is like in her home.

Bad news, and reality, doubt very serious if your future wife will be allowed to come to the USA and get a visa to get a tourist visa to get into the USA, 99% of time the single women from former USSR are turned down no way. You can apply and try but doubt that she gets tourist visa approved at US embassy to go to the USA.

Probably just about every place in Europe, except former Soviet states or CIS countries are all she is going to be able to get into without a visa, and if she has to get a visa to a country it is going to cost her and maybe you, besides you are going to have to get a visa to get into Russia so why not travel around Russia and see parts or cities in it, trains and planes and buses all over the place to get around inexpensive.

Good luck.

Hi this is my very first post on Visa Journey. I hope I am posting this in the right board. If this is incorrect please direct me.

Anyway to make a long story short , I have been talking to a girl from Russia for the past 4 months and we had decided to meet sometime in the spring. I would love for her to come to the US for a visit, so I could show her around this large country a little and see if she would like it here. Or option B is to meet in Europe in a country she has never been to. She is open to either option, and so am I. I have traveled to Europe many times and know my way around very well and would be happy to show Tanya things I have seen.

We started looking at visa options for European countries and the US. It is not hard for me to travel to Europe. A passport and a plane ticket. For Tanya she will need a visa and this could be along process for only a visit. The same thing holds true for a US visit. Although Europe may be easier for a visit I imagine this would be equally difficult. Does anyone have any idea what may be the best option for us? US or Europe? I can imagine there are many things we need to have in order before she would apply for the visa.

Also what kind of things should I be giving her to present to the US embassy in Russia for the visa application? I imagine a hand-written invitation with my contact info and maybe a picture, but is there anything else?

We thought we should start looking at this now for a April/May meeting. This is all very new to us and any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Chris

[BluesTraveler 0]

Reading through all the experiences people have had with police, metros, etc... You could just as easily substitute Moscow for any other major city. I have gotten the shake down in several different places. Sometimes I pay a little, sometimes I pay a lot, it all depends on the day of the week. Bribery and shakedowns exist in the US. Ask any beat cop in a major city of the US. It happens, of course they don't do it, but they hear the stories.

I knew a couple from German who had to pay a "camera tax" in NYC, to the local policemen, because they didn't have the proper journalist license. Complete BS but it does happen in the US.

[visaveteran 1]

Reading through all the experiences people have had with police, metros, etc... You could just as easily substitute Moscow for any other major city. I have gotten the shake down in several different places. Sometimes I pay a little, sometimes I pay a lot, it all depends on the day of the week. Bribery and shakedowns exist in the US. Ask any beat cop in a major city of the US. It happens, of course they don't do it, but they hear the stories.

I knew a couple from German who had to pay a "camera tax" in NYC, to the local policemen, because they didn't have the proper journalist license. Complete BS but it does happen in the US.

Comments or accounts about random misconduct of police officers from various countries does not deflect away from the truth that the Russian police force is one of the most corrupt and boorish in the entire world. This is not about a few problems here or there; it's about the magnitude of the problem in Russia.

[baron555 934]

Never been to Mexico? Let's talk about corruption (Mordida please!)

I've been hassled by police(or better, tried to be hassled) in Chicago, New York City, Toronto, New Orleans, Mexico, Costa Rica, Jamaica, but never in Kiev!!!

But I also didn't let it detract from the beauty I found in all those places nor did I end up in jail nor did it affect my future thinkings of the places.

I always can talk my way out of a bad situation and also never allow myself to get into the situations in the first place.

Some people just have a natural knack for finding trouble.