Life in the ME/NA for women

[MrsAmera 41]

Hi Ladies I need some of your experiences and input here:) I'm writing a paper for school about what life is like in the Middle East for women. I have a pretty good grasp on Morocco but I'm looking for other countries. I know some of you are in Jordan (dollface you've lived there for quite awhile now I would love to hear about your experience!), Algeria, Egypt, West Bank etc. Please post what it was like for you staying there and any other subsequent knowledge you have about what everyday life is like for women. Thanks!!

Amera

[honeyblonde 0]

Amera, I'm curious to know what side of life you saw for women in Morocco. Between my last husband and this marriage I have found that treatment of women varies drastically from the city to the countryside and from the north to the south.

The differences between the two families were night and day.

My last husband's mother and sisters did not go to school and rarely left their house except to go to the river for water or to visit friends. They didn't leave the village more than a couple of times a year, and the women ate in a separate room from the men during religious feasts.

Abdel's family was the exact opposite. His older sister had worn a bikini to the beach back in the 70s and is a very independent nurse, obviously the head of the extended family. She travels extensively and is the major breadwinner in her house. The young girls in his city (Taza) look just like the girls here in the US - tight jeans, tiny little tops and stylish haircuts.

If you aren't aware of it, the Family Law was drastically rewritten in 2004 and I think there was another amendment to it last year. This gave women a whole lot more rights there.

Good luck on your paper.

[cbd2cai 0]

My husband's family is a bit conservative in some ways, but not in others. His sister and mother both wear head scarves when they go outside the home. But untypical for an Egyptian family is that his parents are divorced. His mother teaches school and his sister is studying computers at Uni. The brothers are very protective of the sister, so she is not allowed to go around by herself. She just got engaged and it was arranged . . . a friend of his brother's. They had a big party but it sounds like the wedding won't take place for another 3 years maybe. This will allow them to get to know each other. They won't be allowed to go off by themselves, but can go in groups of friends. I told Ahmed that I hope she likes him and he said I do too. I wonder what will happen if she doesn't like him when it gets down to the point of getting married.

On the other hand, my Dallas Egyptian friend's relatives in Cairo . . . her sister, niece, don't cover their hair . . . she doesn't when she goes to Cairo and neither does her daughter (although I heard recently that the niece has started doing it . . . not sure if it is for reasons of faith or just that it is a "fashion"). They wear make-up and dress fairly modern. The niece and nephew are at Uni in Cairo, both living at home. Not sure if they would be doing arranged marriages or can choose for themselves. Sounds like a question for my friend. LOL, I was talking to her daughter and explained the K-1 visa recently . . . she met a guy in Cairo a few months back and is thinking "what-if" type stuff . . . and mom wanted to know more. I think I have become a visa expert recently (not that it does me any good).

[Meriem_DZ 37]

When I was in Algeria I saw all types of dress. I saw women that wore full hijab and all you could see was their eyes. I saw girls that wore modest clothes and covered their hair. I also saw teenage girls that dressed just like Liz was talking about. Trendy clothes with tight jeans and no cover.

Hachemi has 2 older brothers both are doctors, neither married. He has 2 younger sisters, neither are married. They both dress modest (long sleeve shirts that come down over their rear) but only one sister covers her hair. I dont think Hachemi likes it because his younger sister does not cover. He is very protective of his sisters. They are allowed to go out by themselves without a male chaperone. His 28 year old sister has 2 degrees, her latest in banking and finance. and his youngest sister just graduated with a computer science degree. His mother was a french teacher in the high school and taught all of her children. She is now retired. She does wear hijab and scarf when she goes out. She would go to the market everyday by herself. I think the bigger cities are more relaxed as far as their dress goes. The more rural areas are more traditional with the dress.

Of course it was Ramadan when I was there. It is a holy month and people try to dress like they are suppose to. I am curious to see if it is any different when I go back in March.

Hope that helps. Good luck with your paper.

Meriem

[jennieh 0]

My husband is the only one out of his whole family who ever completed all their schooling. Only one of his sisters was allowed to go to school. She finished elementary school but the government denied her to contiune on. My husband feels since he was allowed to go all the way through school that now its his job to take care of everyone in his family. He is from a village in Morocco and it seems there atleast village people dont always marry for love his one sister was married to someone she barely knew. Only met a few times so that way it wasnt so hard for her family to take care of her. She only met with him a few times then they married it was like an exchange. My husbands own family suggested to him that he marry his cousin so that way he could take care of her. So most of his family doesnt really understand why he married me. But his family is nice they just dont seem to understand things about us. Its like marriages arent done out of love but cause you need someone to take care of you cook, clean, earn money and then after time they will learn to love eachother. My husband has told me if he doesnt wear traditional clothing when he goes to the village he is from or others dont your judged or discriminated against on it, and same thing if you dont go to the Mosque on Fridays.

Edited February 15, 2006 by jennieh

[Meriem_DZ 37]

I also wanted to add that his mother would get up every morning and start cooking. Everything is made from scratch using fresh meat and fresh vegetable. Even homemade bread. Nothing is pre made or canned like we have in USA. She would put the food out at 12:30pm and we would eat lunch. We sat on pillows on the floor at low tables, the girls in one room and the men in the other. No plates were used. The food was placed in bowl or platters on the table and the sisters and I would eat from them. At around 4pm. His mother would bring us tea and pastries. Then around 8pm we would eat leftovers from the lunch.

Also his sisters would take up the carpets, clean and mop the marble floors with a squeegie everyday. They said, as long as they can remember they have done this.

Meriem

[kerewin21 2]

The young girls in his city (Taza) look just like the girls here in the US - tight jeans, tiny little tops and stylish haircuts.

But something I have noticed, even in Casa, is that once the girls are married that seems to be pretty much over, and it's on to wearing a jellaba every day (for the majority). Is that the impression some of you have gathered in Morocco?

Just curious... Our perceptions are very colored by where we go and with whom we spend our time, so I'm wondering if others have had the same impressions as I have.

Sharon

Edited February 15, 2006 by kerewin21

[frndly1 1]

that maybe true, my fsil that is married was not covered in the house however when we went out she covered.

[dollface41601 0]

Your all very right.....from where I live in Jordan, and to the capital is about 20 minutes away, and it is 100% different from one another....I would say 98% of the people in my town are muslim, with very strict ways....i have lived here for 8 months and have only seen a handful of women without a scarf...girls start to where a scarf at 5 years old, and i even see 7-8 year olds, fully covered with the jacket and all...I know one thing that ticks me off, every time a man enters the home, all the women have to hide themselves away from him until he leaves, which sucks...and definitly somehting i am not use to....in this house, if they see a women on the television wearing a tank top or a skirt, they call her a bi*ch and sl*t.....When sofyans older brother comes home, he just says to his sisters, i want coffee, and the girls get up and make it....I havent seen one man in this house do something for himself, beside sofyan...another thing, u dont find many men assisiting with the care of their own children, it is strictly the womens job, and almost looked as like its a shame if the man wanted to contribute....Sofyans 3 sisters did graduate from college and 2 of them work full time....so the family is leniant on that.....and he also has 2 sisters who dont really wear a scarf, but i know sometimes when they go to their uncles house to visit, they have to wear the scarf because then "talk" will start among the whole family about how this girl is a shame or what not....it is a shame in my town for a women to smoke in public, and also for a women to drive, so when i have a cigarette in my mouth in the taxi, many people stare....its a shame for an older women to wear makeup or tie up shoes.....its a shame for women to show the small of her back...something i learn day in and out because all my shirts from america are short so im constantly being careful and pulling it down when i stand up...its a shame for sofyan and i to show affection if anyone else is around....its a shame if a women goes out and the family doesnt know where she is....its VERY bad if a women comes home later than she said she would....its a shame to listen to music when the prayer is going outside....yea i could go on and on...but as u can see, it is a very different life from the one we all have...we do what we want, when we want, and how we want to, without regarding anyone else....lets just say....i love my family, and my life here with them and my husband, but im soo looking forward to the two of us going home

[Bosco 1]

The young girls in his city (Taza) look just like the girls here in the US - tight jeans, tiny little tops and stylish haircuts.

But something I have noticed, even in Casa, is that once the girls are married that seems to be pretty much over, and it's on to wearing a jellaba every day (for the majority). Is that the impression some of you have gathered in Morocco?

Just curious... Our perceptions are very colored by where we go and with whom we spend our time, so I'm wondering if others have had the same impressions as I have.

Sharon

Sharon,

I do think for many it is an expectation to wear djellaba or most modest clothing and hijab after marriage, and some women just chose these things as they get older. I know of a Moroccan-Moroccan marriage where the hijab and clothing she would wear after marriage were discussed. When she didn't comply, it became and issue. She was in her early 20's.

You also see the younger generation with tight clothing but still wearing hijab. I personally saw little skin, but did see a fair amount of tight clothing.

Just as Jennie talked about how her husband would be perceived in his village if he was not wearing traditional clothing and how he was encouraged to marry a cousin, the very wealthy often frown on the head scarf, traditional clothing and these types of marriages. They think it is ignorant, what "country people" do. Fathers will even discourage their daughters from wearing hijab. The lifestyle - education, clothing, etc - is more typical of Europeans for some of the most wealthy, especially in places like Rabat, Casa, Agadir. Has anyone read "Hope and Other Dangerous Pursuits" by Laila Lalami? (great book if you haven't - Moroccan author, the story of four Moroccans trying to get to Spain illegally and what drove them to do so). The story between Fatma and the more upper class girl is an accurate, true reflection on how many of the upper class feel about hijab and religion.

Watch Ali Zaoua and you see a totally different side of Morocco, although the film deals with children rather than women.

Morocco is so diverse and I think you could find upbringings and beliefs as varied as you do here in the U.S.

Rebecca

Edited February 15, 2006 by rhouni

[lostinlove228 0]

I am Lebanese and have been in the US since I was 9.

First thing I have to say about the middle east in that traditions are different from country to country and even from city to city.

In Islam the Hijab is mandatory at the age of 9, but some places tend to be more about tradition.

The cultural in lebanon changes from city to city. You can be walking in one area and see the women who is wearing Sharia ( loose long dress that is botton down and a scarf. You can also see women that are dressed in tight colorful closing with the Hijab, or women who don't have the scarf on. For most people escpeically in the city, it is there own choice what they where ( Lebanon is one of the more "liberal" countries.

In the city Almost everyone gets a college education, and in the country plenty also get a college education. When it comes to work i hear that there is discrimination against women that wear the scarf in a lot of. Hotels will not hire someone who is covered. There are beaches that are only for women and there are beached for men and women together. Both Places are extremely populated during the summer. and both places you find most women in Bikinis.

In Lebanon, women drive, work, choose and choose there mates. In more traditional places a man may come to your house to get to know you and you both make the decision whether to pursue the relationship on not. In the old days women where married at a yound age. In the city these days women will stay single well into there 20s and most often meet there mate in college or work.

In the country some women meet there mate in college and some women someone in the family will introduce them to someone and they make the decision of whether they want to marry that person on not. It is extremely uncome for women to be forced to mary someone they do not wish to marry. As a forced marriage is not Islamic and is a sin to do so.

It is hard to give a generalization what is tradition because it changes from family to family and from city to city.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

What a great idea for a paper !

Well here's what I can tell you about the West Bank and Gaza...

These are tiny places, but as most of the others have mentioned, traditions and cultural practices vary greatly depending on the region, the socio-economic-educational level of the famiily, and whether you are living in a small village or a big city.

Gaza is extremely conservative, and women generally wear the traditional hijab there. Even foreign women are well advised to be very modest in their attire when in public in Gaza, making a reasonable attempt to cover their hair, etc., or be prepared for loudly and clearly expressed unfavorable comments and many dirty looks. Many women there do not complete their educations, but often marry young and take on the traditional roles of wife and mother, rarely holding jobs outside the home. (With unemployment in Gaza at more than 50 %, this is somewhat understandable.)

The West Bank, in contrast, is both economically and educationally more advanced (although the economy has been shattered by the occupation, it's not quite as critical a situation as in Gaza.) You see a lot more West Bank women completing their educations and entering professional careers. Most of the younger women I encountered had at least some college, a passable fluency in English, and were able to discuss international politics and world events quite knowledgeably. And many of the older women in Ramallah had quite formidable educational backgrounds. In contrast, the older women in the villages often had little education beyond grade school.

As many have already noted, the small villages tend to be a lot more old-fashioned and conservative than the big cities. But even in the tiniest West Bank villages, teenage girls and young women are not wearing baggy dresses, but rather tight jeans and fashionable high heeled boots, shoes and sandals. (They see everything on satellite TV, and they are right up on the cutting edge of the latest fashions.) Except for the headscarf, they look much like any young Western females (except of course they don't have their bare stomachs or their panties and brastraps hanging out of their clothes, which I think is actually a big improvement over current American styles.) The older ladies mostly still wear the more traditional attire, but it isn't a shapeless black sack.... they wear colorful, heavily embroidered dresses with matching headcovers. (Specific designs are representative of different villages.)

The West Bank also has a sizeable minority of Christians, who of course do not wear hijab. Christian churches dot the landscape, and you see a lot of Christians especially in Bethlehem, Jerusalem and Ramallah. They are every bit as Palestinian as the Muslim majority, and nobody bothers them with negative attention. But this diversity of the Palestinian population has created a rather tolerant attitude toward varying traditions in dress.

Ramallah itself is pretty cosmopolitan and fairly affluent (lol the little Manhattan of the Middle East.) You will see anything from teenaged Muslim girls in tight jeans.... to classily-dressed women with colorful tunic blouses and elegant pants.... to ladies in full Gulf-style black abaya with only a peephole for the eyes (but they are probably foreigners from the Gulf, and not born in Palestine.) Most of the girls and ladies in Ramallah are wearing a head-scarf of some sort, but there are a sizeable number who do not (many of them are Christian, of course.) A lot of ladies there hold professional jobs, and wear clothes based on Western-style business attire (although usually cut below the knee, and Muslim ladies will usually cover their hair with fashionable silk scarves.) You won't attract too much notice in Ramallah by going with an uncovered head or Western clothes, other then some mildly curious glances.

Although Ramallah is "hip," cities such as Jenin and especially Hebron are not. Conservative styles are de riguer there.

I wear my "normal" clothes when I'm in Palestine.... my usual attire (even home in the U.S.) is pants, jeans or longish dress or skirts, topped with jacket, sweater, shawl or tunic-style blouse. (I think these styles make me look taller !) I don't bring anything clingy or sleeveless, unless I can layer it (space in the suitcase is too limited to bring things I can't wear a lot.) I take my long black coat in the winter... it's very similar in form and function to the abaya. I love to buy clothes in Ramallah -- the stores there have the most wonderful and elegant styles, beautifully made with great quality and especially suitable for the office -- but their prices are kind of high by my standards.

I never cover my hair except for special circumstances. However, as my hair is rather long, I usually keep it tied neatly back and not blowing loose, especially in the more conservative areas. In the small villages, people were often curious upon seeing me, but never made any improper or judgmental comments (at least not to my or my husband's knowledge.) Palestinians are pretty used to seeing Westerners, even in the hinterlands, because of all the humanitarian aid, human rights and peace organizations active there. You might see a U.S. flag burning at the rallies now and then, but that's really just for show lol.... the Palestinian people are overwhelmingly gracious and friendly to Americans in person. When people would learn that I was American, they would line up to get a chance to talk to me.

A growing number of young Palestinian girls and women don't cover their hair at all. This seems to be becoming more accepted, even if not exactly approved, by most of their families -- as long as they are not revealing bare arms, legs, cleavage, etc. For instance, the wife of my husband's brother does not wear hijab, and this is not a serious problem. (It was her habit of going sleeveless with her bra strap hanging out that caused a family ruckus.) My husband's father is a sheikh and extremely old-fashioned -- he lives according to Qur'anic rules, and would not even shake my hand before my husband and I were married, as he will not touch an unrelated female. (After our marriage, though, he was quite comfortable to even hug me.) He had no problem with my Western-style (but admittedly conservative) clothing or uncovered head -- he was very proud to be seen in the street with me, even in conservative Jenin.

It was the old tradition for girls to marry at 15 or 16 or 17, and you still see some of that, especially in the rural areas and in the less educated families. Marriages are not exactly "forcibly arranged," but often a father will produce "acceptible candidates" for his daughter to choose from. According to Qur'anic rule and the secular law in Palestine, she always has the option to decline, but some girls/women feel family pressure to make a choice quickly. Some families are very adamant about what is "suitable" for their girls, in just about all aspects of life. But most families are reasonable (as "reasonable" as any Western family is when trying to get their kids to "act right.")

For instance, my husband has 4 living sisters. One married at 16, one at 18, one at 23, and one at 28. Each made her own decision on what was the right time to marry and which suitor to choose, but candidates were presented through family "networking."

Most of the young women in the West Bank nowadays continue their education past "high school" into college. Some will leave to get married and have babies, but many complete their university degrees and go on to professions in education, health and business, even politics. The Palestinian population is the most educated in the Arab world, with more universities per capita than any other Arab country. Boys are probably encouraged more, but most families these days want their girls to get a college education as well. You often see female doctors and university teachers.

Young women do not do much traveling alone, at least not for any great distance, and especially are not out on the streets after dark, except in the big cities. (This is not due to the fear of crime, which is practically non-existent, but just a cultural norm -- people might "talk" about a woman running around alone after dark.) Girls and young women often travel in groups of friends, or with a male escort (maybe a brother or husband or other close family member.) Older women have more independence -- they come and go as they please, alone or with friends, often attending to their own businesses, and this is accepted.

I am very comfortable living permanently in Palestine, and my husband and I plan to build our house and move there in the future. Insha'allah the situation will be much better there soon.

Hope this helped... if there's any specific information or topic you want more details on.... just holler !

-MK

[~Jess~ 0]

Well i have been in Lebanon for a mth...George's whole family is Maronite Catholic so i dont have a lot of insight on the covering beside what i see in the different places we go.........I have noticed it is a lot different then what people 'assume' not being here. It is a lot more conservative! Both his sister's daughters are college grads and his brothers kids are still in lower grade schools......basically education here depends very much on income! This is a very expensive country to live in, and the income in most jobs isnt sufficient. It is such a beautiful country and most of the women i see, i am not sure of their religion because not many i have seen are covered in any way. there are a few that are covered except their eyes and George has told me they are probably Saudi's. I guess it just depends on where ya go. i havent been to the mountains or to the east much, basically ive just been in these areas and maybe in warmer weather we will go north or east and i will see something different. im not sure........i know even in Christian families here women are expected to do a lot of things such as entertaining and things like that and the basic household things.....i am very different from this. i dont cook, George does the cooking as he is a cook for a living...i dont do dishes often he does them...i will clean up after myself and occasionally him but not often, i will do his laundry and take care of it, and i will vaccum and make things presentable, with his help! He is very accepting of this and has been for over a year, even with coming here which everyone told me he would change once we came back here.....he didnt...

[MrsAmera 41]

Wow thanks for all of the great help so far. I am really excited to write this paper (and do the 20 min oral presentation with it) - I live in the Midwest and a lot of people here have little exposure to Islam. I use to wear hijab but it caused a lot of stares and attention (the opposite of what it's purpose is) so I stopped wearing it. I really want people to see the positive things for women from the middle east. I know that there are a lot of injustices done to women (as do other people) but I want to show my classmates that it isn't all what they think it is. Sooo keep the info coming I really appreciate it!

[lostinlove228 0]

I think many westerners view the injustaces which do happen in some countries as part of Islam which is not the case. In fact it is the opposite. Islam provides for women all the human rights that the west has just started to give women. I think that would be wonderful opportunity to bring that into your presentation. I would love to read the paper you write if you don't mind. Good Luck.