Co-Sponsor Income Tax question

[antda 13]

Hi Trailmix and Everyone,

Hmmm..Interesting point you bring up there. I agree that others shouldn't be responsible for our own financial debts. If any of us get into debt, it is our responsiblity to pay that off. On that note, instead of making the sponsor or co-sponsor responsible for the immigrant's debt, why can't the immigrant themselves be responsible? Kind of contradictory in ways, where the governent doesn't want to burden taxpayers...yet they make tax-paying people of one's family and friends deal with the burden...

It doesn't provide security in ways....having a sponsor and/or co-sponsor thinking that they are financially responsible for an immigrant, even though they really are not in ways. And having the "beg, ask, or do whatever else" for a co-sponsor, just so that the government can have this sense of "security" and for us having this "burden" is not good at all. I'm sure those of you who have had a to find am additional co-sponsor (and have had difficulties in the process) know what I mean by this too....

To some people and/or the government...125% is not much at all...But to others...this is quite a lot....especially more so if they have had other financial difficulties and life difficulties (job losses, health issues, etc.) and can't meet this 'standard' in order to simply be with their loved-ones. Just because the government says that one needs a certain 'standard' to live by, doesn't mean that everyone has to live by that standard either.

Now if a couple were both USCs..living below the poverty line standard...wouldn't come into play...The government doesn't care what their income is...

If a couple was an immigrant and a USC...living below the poverty line standard....The government 'cares'....

Seems discriminatory here...

As for couples knowing each other's financial situation...Well, they better know that before they get into some type of long-term commitment and/or marriage. Don't they know that if they don't know abot the finances in the relationship, it can cause problems? Lol..I'm sure couples don't need the government to remind them of that simple relationship issue.

Personally, I think they should just do away with this sponsor/co-sponsor thing...

If the immigrant gets into financial problems...It's their responsbility..not anyone else's, no matter who it is....

Ant

I think it's a good idea really - i'm sure the American taxpayers would be up in arms if they thought people were applying for visas for persons they might not be able to be financially responsible for.

It also protects the immigrant. In some cases perhaps a fiance(e) may not know all the intimate details of their SOs financial situation an affidavit of support at least gives them some sort of security.

They aren't asking for much - 125% of the poverty guidelines.

[simistar 2]

In answer to your next question: Your "household size" is still 4 (you, your husband, mother-in-law, and father-in-law), as your husband is counted in the equation too. Your husband, as a USC and is petitioning on your behalf, is the main sponsor, and thus needs to be counted in. So the breakdown of your "combined household" is as follows:

-You (the immigrant)

-Your husband (the sponsor)

-Your mother-in-law (the co-sponsor)

-Your father-in-law

And all of the "US income" in this "combined household family" has to be able to "support" 4 people....

For any additional people in the household...add the people and income levels accordingly...

I'm sorry to be thick here , I'm just really not sure how my mother-in-law should mark the "household size" page on the I-864 as it doesn't really give a square to check for my husband...

I'm going to attempt to attach a scan of that section of the I-864 so you can see what I mean...

Please ignore the numbers already in there however! (I scanned the page from my husband's I-864)...

Would you be able to tell me which box she should check that applies to my husband...?

THANK YOU!!!

(and please let me know if the attachment I uploaded doesn't work...)

I_864_Household_Size.doc

[antda 13]

Hi Simistar,

Lol...no you are not thick here at all...Just the USCIS is thick for making us fill out all those forms!....

Ok, in answer to your questions:

Thanks for the download too. Oh my, the forms certainly do look different from the ones that we filled out a few years ago when I did my AOS! So I can't help you there, in terms of exactly what to fill out for the newer form that you have now...But....The old forms are quite similar, so let's see..(I have my immigration paperwork in front of me), so let me try and refer from there too...

The Sponsor (my husband) completed one I-864 form (which I have a copy of before I gave it to the lawyer that I used for the AOS).

The Co-Sponsor completed another I-864 form (which I don't have a copy of, as we gave that to the lawyer right away).

Hence, you have to hand in 2 separate I-864 forms (one from the sponsor, one from the co-sponsor) in your case.

Based on the version of the form that you attached, your husband (the sponsor) fills out the following:

21.

a. 1 (persons you are sponsoring...you, the immigrant)

b. 1 (yourself...your husband)

c. 0 (spouse...you the immigrant...but you were already mentioned before on line 21 a...so no need to cound that again)

d. 0 (dependent children..assuming your husband has no children)

e. 0 (other dependents...assuming your husband has no dependents)

f. 0 (did not sponsor any other person...assuming your husband has not sponsored anyone else)

g. 0 (does your siblings, parents, adult children, live with you...assuming your husband doesn't have such living with him)

f. Add all the numbers together....

Based on the version of the form that you attached, your mother-in-law (the co-sponsor) fills out the following:

21.

a. 1 (persons you are sponsoring....you, the immigrant)

b. 1 (yourself...your mother-in-law)

c. 1 (spouse...your father-in-law)

d. 0 (dependent children..assuming your mother-in-law has no children living with them)

e. 0 (pther dependents...assuming your mother-in-law has no dependents)

f. 0 (did not sponsor any other person...assuming your mother-in-law has not sponsored anyone else)

g. 0 (does your siblings, parents, adult children, live with you...assuming your mother-in-law doesn't have such living with her)

f. Add all the numbers together....

And the total from the 2 forms (using the above stated example numbers):

Sponsor: Family size of 2...

Co-Sponsor: Family size of 3....

Grand Total...."Combined Household" size of 5...(not 4 that I mentioned earlier...oops...)...

(now that I think about it, my case was 6 instead of 5 that I mentioned earlier too...)

So based on what you gave me, that's what I would have filled out if I were in your situation....

Should double-check with someone else, just in case.....(I'm not too good with numbers...)

Any other VJers have suggestions about this too?

Hope this helps as well. Good luck with the rest of our immigration journey too.

Ant

I'm sorry to be thick here , I'm just really not sure how my mother-in-law should mark the "household size" page on the I-864 as it doesn't really give a square to check for my husband...

I'm going to attempt to attach a scan of that section of the I-864 so you can see what I mean...

Please ignore the numbers already in there however! (I scanned the page from my husband's I-864)...

Would you be able to tell me which box she should check that applies to my husband...?

THANK YOU!!!

(and please let me know if the attachment I uploaded doesn't work...)

Edited September 22, 2009 by Ant+D+A

[antda 13]

P.S. I almost forgot to mention...

Your husband checks off the "I am the petitioner/sponsor" or "I am filing the alien relative petition" box on the first page of his form...

You mother-in-law checks off the "I am the joint sponsor....." box on the first page of her form.....

Hope this helps too.

Ant

Edited September 22, 2009 by Ant+D+A

[simistar 2]

Based on the version of the form that you attached, your mother-in-law (the co-sponsor) fills out the following:

21.

a. 1 (persons you are sponsoring....you, the immigrant)

b. 1 (yourself...your mother-in-law)

c. 1 (spouse...your father-in-law)

d. 0 (dependent children..assuming your mother-in-law has no children living with them)

e. 0 (pther dependents...assuming your mother-in-law has no dependents)

f. 0 (did not sponsor any other person...assuming your mother-in-law has not sponsored anyone else)

g. 0 (does your siblings, parents, adult children, live with you...assuming your mother-in-law doesn't have such living with her)

f. Add all the numbers together....

And the total from the 2 forms (using the above stated example numbers):

Sponsor: Family size of 2...

Co-Sponsor: Family size of 3....

First of all...thank you SO much for taking so much time to help me out! I really do appreciate it

Okay, so it looks like from what you figured out above, is what I thought... total household size for my mother-in-law/joint sponsor would be THREE ( her, her husband, and me)

Why is something that should be so simple, SO confusing??

Should double-check with someone else, just in case.....(I'm not too good with numbers...)

Any other VJers have suggestions about this too?

LOL...I'm not good with numbers either...

Anyone volunteer to double check our math? :-)

TIA...

:-)

[trailmix 77]

Yes, you are right, it's 3 for your co-sponsor.

[trailmix 77]

Hmmm..Interesting point you bring up there. I agree that others shouldn't be responsible for our own financial debts. If any of us get into debt, it is our responsiblity to pay that off. On that note, instead of making the sponsor or co-sponsor responsible for the immigrant's debt, why can't the immigrant themselves be responsible? Kind of contradictory in ways, where the governent doesn't want to burden taxpayers...yet they make tax-paying people of one's family and friends deal with the burden...

I don't see a contradiction - the U.S. government doesn't want to see tax paying people of one's family dealing with the 'burden' of the immigrant - but it is far better that they do than taxpayers in general.

Of course people should be responsible for their financial debts - but that doesn't mean everyone is.

It doesn't provide security in ways....having a sponsor and/or co-sponsor thinking that they are financially responsible for an immigrant, even though they really are not in ways. And having the "beg, ask, or do whatever else" for a co-sponsor, just so that the government can have this sense of "security" and for us having this "burden" is not good at all. I'm sure those of you who have had a to find am additional co-sponsor (and have had difficulties in the process) know what I mean by this too....

Some may have to beg, ask or do whatever to get a co-sponsor - again, that is not the fault or responsibility of the taxpayers.

I can absolutely understand that it must suck to have to get a co-sponsor.

To some people and/or the government...125% is not much at all...But to others...this is quite a lot....especially more so if they have had other financial difficulties and life difficulties (job losses, health issues, etc.) and can't meet this 'standard' in order to simply be with their loved-ones. Just because the government says that one needs a certain 'standard' to live by, doesn't mean that everyone has to live by that standard either.

I know this, i'm just saying that at the very least they aren't asking for some astronomical amount. I don't really think they care if you live in a box on the street - they are just trying to ensure that the immigrant does not come to rely on welfare or other social programs.

Now if a couple were both USCs..living below the poverty line standard...wouldn't come into play...The government doesn't care what their income is...

If a couple was an immigrant and a USC...living below the poverty line standard....The government 'cares'....

Seems discriminatory here...

As I said above, they don't really care if the immigrant and their family want to live in a cardboard box - just don't want the immigrant using social services.

As for couples knowing each other's financial situation...Well, they better know that before they get into some type of long-term commitment and/or marriage. Don't they know that if they don't know abot the finances in the relationship, it can cause problems? Lol..I'm sure couples don't need the government to remind them of that simple relationship issue.

Maybe in Unicorn land they don't - certainly there are many who get in to relationships and marry without knowing the spouses financial situation i'm sure.

Personally, I think they should just do away with this sponsor/co-sponsor thing...

If the immigrant gets into financial problems...It's their responsbility..not anyone else's, no matter who it is....

I agree, but again, not all people are responsible, that is why the affidavit of support is in place (although just proving you can support the immigrant in a somewhat looser fashion would probably be nicer)

Ok so question for you then. They do away with the affidavit of support. Immigrant comes to the U.S. on a CR1 visa. The marriage breaks down after 3 years and they cannot live together anymore. The immigrant walks out of the house - she can't stand to be there anymore.

She can't get welfare, or really any government benefits - let's assume they have little to no savings (which is not out of the realm of possibility).

Now what does she do?

[simistar 2]

Yes, you are right, it's 3 for your co-sponsor.

lol -- thanks for double checking that Trailmix!

I swear these forms are making me insane:-)

[navyswife 0]

Hi Simistar,

No problem...glad to be able to help...

Lol...Nah, you're not dumb about this at all. When dealing with the USCIS, we're all bound to lose a few brain cells and gain a lot of frustration throughout the entire process. Nevertheless, you're smart enough to find help here on VJ..So ask away, and help you shall recieve and be smarter than the USCIS!

In answer to your next question: Your "household size" is still 4 (you, your husband, mother-in-law, and father-in-law), as your husband is counted in the equation too. Your husband, as a USC and is petitioning on your behalf, is the main sponsor, and thus needs to be counted in. So the breakdown of your "combined household" is as follows:

-You (the immigrant)

-Your husband (the sponsor)

-Your mother-in-law (the co-sponsor)

-Your father-in-law

And all of the "US income" in this "combined household family" has to be able to "support" 4 people....

For any additional people in the household...add the people and income levels accordingly...

In my situation, our "combined household size" was 5...(me, my husband the sponsor, the co-sponsor, the co-sponsor's spouse, and the co-sponsor's child). The sponsor's and co-sponsor's income (mainly the co-sponsor's income in this case) was enough to cover all of us for immigration purposes, and that's all they cared about...

Now, non-immigration-wise....my household is 3...(me, my husband, my son)....We have never had to ask the co-sponsor for any financial support, as our income is enough to cover us....Why the USCIS doesn't see that we can fully support ourselves without a co-sponsor..I have no idea....Sigh...

Hope this helps as well. Good luck on your immigration journey...

Ant

You guys are all such a wealth of information -- thank you!

However, you've just made me reconsider what my mother-in-law should put for "household size"...

Sorry...new questions seem to pop up every hour... I swear I am an intelligent being...but these forms make me feel like the dumbest person on Earth!

So, the way I read the household size item is...

My mother-in-law would include me, herself and her husband, for a total of 3.

Does she include my husband in that...?

It says to include only "dependant children" on the actual I-864 form...and on the instructions it says:

"Enter the number of unmarried children you have who are under the age of 21"... which obviously does not apply to my husband...

If anyone can clarify this for me, I'd appreciate it!

Thanks!

Hi. Got confused..thought the USC who is the primary petitioner doesnt need to be counted in the size of the household. Thought it will only be me, my brother (my co-sponsor), my bro wife and 1 kid of them so total of 4. Pls clarify my confusion.....Thanks in advance...

[simistar 2]

Hi. Got confused..thought the USC who is the primary petitioner doesnt need to be counted in the size of the household. Thought it will only be me, my brother (my co-sponsor), my bro wife and 1 kid of them so total of 4. Pls clarify my confusion.....Thanks in advance...

Hi there,

I am by NO MEANS an expert here, lol!:-)

BUT, here's what I think...

Both the USC (the primary petitioner) AND your co-sponsor need to fill out a I-864....so in total, you'll need TWO I-864 forms.

Who is your primary petitioner...? husband..?

Not sure from what you've said above...

So, let's say it IS your husband...(and you don't have any children etc)

On your husband's I-864 he puts himself, plus you... so that's TWO for his form.

For your co-sponsor's I-864...who I gather his your brother who is married with a child...

He would put you, himself, his wife and their child...for a total of FOUR for his form.

Of course, if anyone wants to check my math, that's probably a good idea! :-)

Edited September 27, 2009 by simistar

[navyswife 0]

Hi Simistar,

Lol...no you are not thick here at all...Just the USCIS is thick for making us fill out all those forms!....

Ok, in answer to your questions:

Thanks for the download too. Oh my, the forms certainly do look different from the ones that we filled out a few years ago when I did my AOS! So I can't help you there, in terms of exactly what to fill out for the newer form that you have now...But....The old forms are quite similar, so let's see..(I have my immigration paperwork in front of me), so let me try and refer from there too...

The Sponsor (my husband) completed one I-864 form (which I have a copy of before I gave it to the lawyer that I used for the AOS).

The Co-Sponsor completed another I-864 form (which I don't have a copy of, as we gave that to the lawyer right away).

Hence, you have to hand in 2 separate I-864 forms (one from the sponsor, one from the co-sponsor) in your case.

Based on the version of the form that you attached, your husband (the sponsor) fills out the following:

21.

a. 1 (persons you are sponsoring...you, the immigrant)

b. 1 (yourself...your husband)

c. 0 (spouse...you the immigrant...but you were already mentioned before on line 21 a...so no need to cound that again)

d. 0 (dependent children..assuming your husband has no children)

e. 0 (other dependents...assuming your husband has no dependents)

f. 0 (did not sponsor any other person...assuming your husband has not sponsored anyone else)

g. 0 (does your siblings, parents, adult children, live with you...assuming your husband doesn't have such living with him)

f. Add all the numbers together....

Based on the version of the form that you attached, your mother-in-law (the co-sponsor) fills out the following:

21.

a. 1 (persons you are sponsoring....you, the immigrant)

b. 1 (yourself...your mother-in-law)

c. 1 (spouse...your father-in-law)

d. 0 (dependent children..assuming your mother-in-law has no children living with them)

e. 0 (pther dependents...assuming your mother-in-law has no dependents)

f. 0 (did not sponsor any other person...assuming your mother-in-law has not sponsored anyone else)

g. 0 (does your siblings, parents, adult children, live with you...assuming your mother-in-law doesn't have such living with her)

f. Add all the numbers together....

And the total from the 2 forms (using the above stated example numbers):

Sponsor: Family size of 2...

Co-Sponsor: Family size of 3....

Grand Total...."Combined Household" size of 5...(not 4 that I mentioned earlier...oops...)...

(now that I think about it, my case was 6 instead of 5 that I mentioned earlier too...)

So based on what you gave me, that's what I would have filled out if I were in your situation....

Should double-check with someone else, just in case.....(I'm not too good with numbers...)

Any other VJers have suggestions about this too?

Hope this helps as well. Good luck with the rest of our immigration journey too.

Ant

Hi.How about my USC husband on letter D. of that 1-864 .He has 18 yrs old son and 2 yr old daughter but lived with their mom his ex wife. Does he needs to put a number 2 for letter D. taht says if you have any dependent children enter the number here? thanks in advance.

[simistar 2]

Hi.How about my USC husband on letter D. of that 1-864 .He has 18 yrs old son and 2 yr old daughter but lived with their mom his ex wife. Does he needs to put a number 2 for letter D. taht says if you have any dependent children enter the number here? thanks in advance.

Hmmm...

I think we're going to need someone with more experience in these things weigh in here as well...

But here are my thoughts....

For your husband's I-864 household size, he would include:

a. you

b. himself

c. (he doesn't put anything for "c" because he's already put you for "a")

d. *this is where I'm unsure of what your husband puts...

- he will definitely put his two-year-old daughter (*the instructions say to include any unmarried children under the age of 21 even if you do not have legal custody of them)... BUT whether he includes his 18-year-old son, depends on a few things...

Your husband does NOT include his son:

1. IF his son has reached the age of majority in the place where he (the son) lives

2. your husband DID NOT claim his son as an dependent on his most recent tax return

Your husband DOES include his son:

1. IF his son has NOT reached the age of majority where he (the son) lives...

2. your husband DID claim his son as a dependent on his most recent tax return

(*basically, your husband needs to include ANYONE he claimed as a dependent on his tax return, whether they are related or not)

Again, perhaps Trailmix or someone else can offer an opinion on this as well..? :-)

Edited September 27, 2009 by simistar

[antda 13]

Hi Trailmix,

I agree that everyone should be responsible for their own financial debts. It is not anyone else's responsiblity, not the taxpayers, family, friends, or anyone else, so I understand in that sense too. On that note, the government should consider just making the immigrant, and not anyone else, responsible if they are a "burden" to society. By making the immigrant responsible, they are teaching them to be capable to live in the country they choose to immigrate to, and to contribute to such a society.

Yeah, it does suck to get a co-sponsor (believe me, I know from personal experience). And for everyone who has been in that situation, it shouldn't have had to come to that point. We can be responsible for ourselves, without the burden of asking others. So why make it seem as though we are not responsible by getting others involved?

I know it is not an astronomical amount for the poverty guidelines, for most people. But for some people, this is a lot to them. If they really didn't care if an immigrant lived in a box, on the street, or wherever else that is "not up to par", then why should they care about how much a person makes or lives off of? All they care about is for immigrants not to use government programs, right? So just have a form and/or legal document stating such, sign that, and that's it. None of the government's business really, as to how much a person can live off of, and if a person can live off of less, so be it. As long as they are financially responsible for their own debts and they don't use any programs, then so be it, in my opinion.

Lol..this isn't "unicorn land" we're talking about, in terms of people in relationships not knowing what their partner's financial situation is. This is a "real life" issue. All couples definitely need to know about the finances, or face relationship problems down the road. Funny, how the government requires "joint documents" as evidence of knowing the finances together and that should be sufficient enough already. After all, if one knows the household finances, regardless of how big or little the amount is, that is proof enough that the couple is strong enough relationship-wise. And yet they still have to enforce an afffidavit of support. It's like they are saying "You share $10 together and you love each other..so what...that's not enough...don't come to America...One has $20 and the other has $0 and doesn't share with each other and are a fraud couple who hate each other...welcome to America"....kind of contradictory, isn't it? Oh well, what can you expect really, from a capitalist-run and money-minded society...

I say, do away with the affidavit of support. Forget about sponsors, co-sponsors, etc. Have the immigrant themselves alone be responsbile.

Ant

P.S. As for your hypothetical example about the immigrant who is in a broken-down marriage...That's a rare situation, but nevertheless, it happens. In that case, I think that the couple should do the following: 1) Try to work out their marriage by seeking counselling, mediatation, or whatever else first. 2) The immigrant should ask for help from other non-govenment resources, for example, friends, support systems, community programs, etc. that are non-discriminatory against one's situation and/or immigrant status. The government can't help (since they they they are a "burden" even though they are not)...seek other help instead..There's help other there...find and you shall receive....

I don't see a contradiction - the U.S. government doesn't want to see tax paying people of one's family dealing with the 'burden' of the immigrant - but it is far better that they do than taxpayers in general.

Of course people should be responsible for their financial debts - but that doesn't mean everyone is.

Some may have to beg, ask or do whatever to get a co-sponsor - again, that is not the fault or responsibility of the taxpayers.

I can absolutely understand that it must suck to have to get a co-sponsor.

I know this, i'm just saying that at the very least they aren't asking for some astronomical amount. I don't really think they care if you live in a box on the street - they are just trying to ensure that the immigrant does not come to rely on welfare or other social programs.

As I said above, they don't really care if the immigrant and their family want to live in a cardboard box - just don't want the immigrant using social services.

Maybe in Unicorn land they don't - certainly there are many who get in to relationships and marry without knowing the spouses financial situation i'm sure.

I agree, but again, not all people are responsible, that is why the affidavit of support is in place (although just proving you can support the immigrant in a somewhat looser fashion would probably be nicer)

Ok so question for you then. They do away with the affidavit of support. Immigrant comes to the U.S. on a CR1 visa. The marriage breaks down after 3 years and they cannot live together anymore. The immigrant walks out of the house - she can't stand to be there anymore.

She can't get welfare, or really any government benefits - let's assume they have little to no savings (which is not out of the realm of possibility).

Now what does she do?

[antda 13]

Hi Simistar and Navyswife,

The numbers look good to me in both of your cases...

Good luck in completing your I-864 (and other forms too) for yourselves and sponsors and co-sponsors!

And good luck with the rest of your immigration journeys too!

Ant

[navyswife 0]

Hi.How about my USC husband on letter D. of that 1-864 .He has 18 yrs old son and 2 yr old daughter but lived with their mom his ex wife. Does he needs to put a number 2 for letter D. taht says if you have any dependent children enter the number here? thanks in advance.

Hmmm...

I think we're going to need someone with more experience in these things weigh in here as well...

But here are my thoughts....

For your husband's I-864 household size, he would include:

a. you

b. himself

c. (he doesn't put anything for "c" because he's already put you for "a")

d. *this is where I'm unsure of what your husband puts...

- he will definitely put his two-year-old daughter (*the instructions say to include any unmarried children under the age of 21 even if you do not have legal custody of them)... BUT whether he includes his 18-year-old son, depends on a few things...

Your husband does NOT include his son:

1. IF his son has reached the age of majority in the place where he (the son) lives

2. your husband DID NOT claim his son as an dependent on his most recent tax return

Your husband DOES include his son:

1. IF his son has NOT reached the age of majority where he (the son) lives...

2. your husband DID claim his son as a dependent on his most recent tax return

(*basically, your husband needs to include ANYONE he claimed as a dependent on his tax return, whether they are related or not)

Again, perhaps Trailmix or someone else can offer an opinion on this as well..? :-)

Hi.thanks for the respond. Trailmix already helped me on some matters and now i saw the discussions and i cleared this matter. My husband's son and daughter is 18 and 21 so sorry i missed the 1 it was an error. When they got divorced the youngest son was like 10 yrs old and grew up with his mom same as his daughter. My husband is consideed as disable now but the 18 yr old still receiving a supplementary from my husband's i think SSS every month till he finishes his studies.