Another HCMC black eye

[toddandhien 2]

I'm not trying to persuade all of you that all Vietnamese brides came to US are in truthful marriage, but if your guys didn't believe them, why don't your guys come to Vietnam to live with them to avoid scammers coming to your country? Hummm, I like that idea.

I should ask him to come to VN so I didn't have to give up my house, my University degree and my good job to come to the USA to work in McDonald restaurant to look for money to came back to school. I had to start over everything.

You chose the wrong ones by yourselves and now complain for all of the brides.

If that were the better of the two options (him going there or you coming here) then you should have.

But you are missing the point here, Hien. How many American guys scam their VN girls by getting into VN and then leaving them? Zero. This issue is about opportunity and standards of living. Perhaps you led a privileged life in VN and were unaware of the way most VN people live. My wife, also named Hien, is from a tiny village in the Mekong region. She is very aware of the differences. When we began discussing marriage she quickly knew that we could not have the same standard of living there as we do here in the US, because we talked about both options. She also understands fully why many young women would do just about anything to get into the US.

Nobody here is saying that all VN girls are bad. On the contrary, I think most are quite good and honest. But VN did not get a reputation as being a high fraud country by accident or by mistake. Viet Nam is a developing country and until there is some normalization of economies between the US and VN, many will seek refuge here.

[BinhJerome 14]

I also think Scott is correct and incorrect. I do not think it is just Vietnam that people say be careful not congrats to, but to all countries.

Jerome

When did I say this only happens in VN or with VN spouses? VN is one of several countries dealing with this, but it happens to be one of a few at the top end of the list. The reason they are saying you are being scammed is because the SO is from VN. They would not say that if she was from Canada.

I know Scott, but there is high fraud from the Philippines, Ukraine, Russia, and other countries as well. Maybe not as high as Vietnam, but every person going abroad is stuck with the stigma that you are being scammed. Really sit back and think for one moment and you will see it is not only Vietnam. I had a different foreign Fiancée before Binh and she was from the Ukraine, I got the same thing there. Then after we broke up I started to write people from other countries and before the woman from Ukraine I was writing a woman from Indonesia, same thing there, and with the Philippines as well and now with Vietnam. I think people say "be careful" because they worry about you genuinely and they know you are not with the person and can not easily check up on them because they are thousands of miles away. I have truly heard of more fraud from the Philippines and former Soviet countries than in Vietnam, but everyone insists of Vietnam is the worst in this forum. On paper maybe, but I have heard of friends friends from other countries way more than from Vietnam.

Scott, about your other post. I know the doubt, but it is not good, do not worry about what people say, and try to not let it get into your head. Your fiancée will do things for you that no other person can do. No matter how mad or your family gets (not saying they are mad) once she is here and they see how happy you two are together they will understand they were wrong. If you have doubts now clear your head and trust your heart. If I get played for a green card, who cares. I trusted in my heart, how can you go wrong in doing that?? I trust Binh, and I believe in her. I do not and will not try to tell you to or not to trust your fiancée, but I will tell you to trust in your heart, don't look for red flags you will always find them if you look hard enough. Remember it is always easier to doubt than to accept. Just trust in your heart and you will be fine. If something strange happens, write a letter then tear it up before you talk to her about it. There is never anything good coming from assuming the worst and expecting a explanation. I have jumped the gun in the past, and I saw how it affected my relationships. I still do at times it is human instinct, just try to cool down and bring things up casually this way you do not make her feel you are pointing fingers. As you said you already told her how your family views it so each time you point a finger and ask what the heck it makes her feel worse and worse. Eventually she will get the doubts as well. If you accuse someone of something long enough more often than not they will do what they were accused of simply because you already thought they did it.

Just have faith in your heart all else will work out.

Jerome

[toddandhien 2]

I also think Scott is correct and incorrect. I do not think it is just Vietnam that people say be careful not congrats to, but to all countries.

Jerome

When did I say this only happens in VN or with VN spouses? VN is one of several countries dealing with this, but it happens to be one of a few at the top end of the list. The reason they are saying you are being scammed is because the SO is from VN. They would not say that if she was from Canada.

I know Scott, but there is high fraud from the Philippines, Ukraine, Russia, and other countries as well. Maybe not as high as Vietnam, but every person going abroad is stuck with the stigma that you are being scammed. Really sit back and think for one moment and you will see it is not only Vietnam. I had a different foreign Fiancée before Binh and she was from the Ukraine, I got the same thing there. Then after we broke up I started to write people from other countries and before the woman from Ukraine I was writing a woman from Indonesia, same thing there, and with the Philippines as well and now with Vietnam. I think people say "be careful" because they worry about you genuinely and they know you are not with the person and can not easily check up on them because they are thousands of miles away. I have truly heard of more fraud from the Philippines and former Soviet countries than in Vietnam, but everyone insists of Vietnam is the worst in this forum. On paper maybe, but I have heard of friends friends from other countries way more than from Vietnam.

Scott, about your other post. I know the doubt, but it is not good, do not worry about what people say, and try to not let it get into your head. Your fiancée will do things for you that no other person can do. No matter how mad or your family gets (not saying they are mad) once she is here and they see how happy you two are together they will understand they were wrong. If you have doubts now clear your head and trust your heart. If I get played for a green card, who cares. I trusted in my heart, how can you go wrong in doing that?? I trust Binh, and I believe in her. I do not and will not try to tell you to or not to trust your fiancée, but I will tell you to trust in your heart, don't look for red flags you will always find them if you look hard enough. Remember it is always easier to doubt than to accept. Just trust in your heart and you will be fine. If something strange happens, write a letter then tear it up before you talk to her about it. There is never anything good coming from assuming the worst and expecting a explanation. I have jumped the gun in the past, and I saw how it affected my relationships. I still do at times it is human instinct, just try to cool down and bring things up casually this way you do not make her feel you are pointing fingers. As you said you already told her how your family views it so each time you point a finger and ask what the heck it makes her feel worse and worse. Eventually she will get the doubts as well. If you accuse someone of something long enough more often than not they will do what they were accused of simply because you already thought they did it.

Just have faith in your heart all else will work out.

Jerome

Jerome, give Jim and Scott a break. This is not personal. Remember that we ALL have girls from VN, not just you. And nobody is singling out Viet Nam. There are scammers from every part of the world, for sure, but the fact is that VN is a high fraud country. We just have to deal with that. I'm sure Binh is a great girl and you two will be happy mai mai. But many others have encountered problems in VN and we are just taking the opportunity to discuss those events.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Jim This whole fraud thing has caused me problems from the beginning... My mother and I are not as close as we were a year ago because all of the women at the nail salon she goes to has convinced her that Thuy is just nother VN cave trying to get a GC. Thuy and I talk about every aspect of our daily lives.... the topic has come up and the few times that it crossed my mind, thanks to the constant barage of insinuations from others, I told her what I was thinking and feeling and it really hurt her. Regardless of what we know in our hearts and minds, the constant bombardment of this negative message that our SO is scamming us can take its toll.

Phuong reacted the same way when I first brought up the subject, but it's an important subject that needs to be discussed. She needs to know that people are going to suspect her, and that there is enormous pressure on her US citizen fiance, and that there may be times when he will also wonder about this. There's no way to overcome this doubt if you can't talk about it.

IMO possible red flags are:

previous attempt to gain access to the US

previous marriage that ended when you met. (husband to follow after she paves the way)

making no attempt to learn English

does not have time or interest to talk to you regulary

made a huge life change when you met... quit working or school...

insists on regular transfers of $ that are far beyond the standard wage that will continue after they arrive in the US. An example is one that I recently saw in a PI discussion... 400 bucks a month in these countries is not like 400 bucks in the US. It is understandable that one would want to improve the quality of life of ones SO but it usually does not work the way we plan. In my case my SO does not manage her $. Her mother has always managed the family $. I know if I send any $ it goes into the family pot. The $ improves the quality of life of the entire family.. not just the SO.

All good points. Thankfully, Phuong and I have none of these.

[ScottThuy 140]

All good points. Thankfully, Phuong and I have none of these.

In some ways I have the marriage thing lurking... and I have done a great deal of investigating, that she does not know about, to validate what she said about her past marriage.

The same things that the CO are looking for as red flags, should be red flags for the petitioner... If there is something that we must go out of our way to address, then why is the issue present to begin with? I really think that many of the guys that are caught up in these situations unknowingly, were bamboozled and as a result a combination of lust and love dominated their reasoning and clouded their judgement at some point.

"she said she loves me, it can't be a fraud" if this is our justification... we're screwed... In our cases it's not the case.... but we are paying the price for those that fell for it or bought into it.

Is that garage cleaned out yet???????

[BinhJerome 14]

All good points. Thankfully, Phuong and I have none of these.

Good luck ! We wish you the best

Jerome and Binh

[Anh map 2,098]

I'm not trying to persuade all of you that all Vietnamese brides came to US are in truthful marriage, but if your guys didn't believe them, why don't your guys come to Vietnam to live with them to avoid scammers coming to your country? Hummm, I like that idea.

I should ask him to come to VN so I didn't have to give up my house, my University degree and my good job to come to the USA to work in McDonald restaurant to look for money to came back to school. I had to start over everything.

You chose the wrong ones by yourselves and now complain for all of the brides.

What in the world are you talking about?

Nothing posted prior to your post was complaining about being scammed.

And no one is indicting Vietnamese women.

And all of the posters in this entire thread seem to be quite happy with their choices.

Edited September 20, 2009 by Anh map

[lindal24 1]

Last week I got an email from jetstar with an itinerary for my SO to fly to HCMC for the weekend, her info is associated with my email from previous travels together.... It was a 143$ flight. Up to that point I had no insight into any reason she would travel and 143 is a month salary for her, I know she does not like HCMC and only flies if I am at the destination.. she hates flying. Quick things run through my head.. why is she flying to HCMC for the weekend? Where did the $ come from? Am I being scammed? I called her when I knew she was about to finish her english class and she had no idea what I was talking about. I could hear the confusion in her voice. She dropped what she was doing and drove home so she could find out what the deal was and talk to me on yahoo. She called jetstar and it ended up that her boss had paid for several of the managers at the office to go to HCMC for the weekend to work at a conference. But had yet to tell them that they were going out of town for the weekend. I got to hear the entire conversation with jetstar as well as the two calls with the manager... she was really mad at him. When I told her what had gone through my head when I got the emails.. bam she went from angry with her boss to sad that I doubted her. Being thousands of miles away does not help the situation any.

Do I look at it as a "red flag"? no, because I personally know her boss and how he does things. Its sad to say that the red flag that is there is the VN flag. That is the huge red flag that says the relationship is a fraud. Every US/VN relationship no matter how strong will suffer in some way as a result of those that have perpetrated fraud to get to the US. Those in AP are feeling it now. IMO They are all in AP because of the high fraud through HCMC.

But you did look at it as a red flag--you questioned her about the situation. In your position, I find it a bit odd too--if it were her boss, how would her boss booking a flight on Jetstar.com know your info/email for the itinerary? I've booked flights on jetstar a few times and each time, unless you login, you have to reenter your personal data. In your SOs defense, I too would be very saddened from being doubted but I think she should be understanding from your point of view if you've discussed with her the high fraud rate coming out of VN. No doubt, it ultimately comes down to how much you trust your SO...

IMO, I think the AP process exists because of a number of automatic red flags as discussed in other topics such as 1. no common language 2.a quick marriage after having just met 3. not following customary traditions 4. No trail of communication 5. etc.

Mine is #2 and I'll openly state that. The decision to marry for us was made after hours and hours of communication. Not just typical "hi how are you", but more debate type questions and what's your position on type questions. We truely got to know and understand one another through conversations. The visits proved physical compatibility( ) for the most part, but also allowed us to express our beliefs and positions face to face... I know my marriage isn't fraud though and that's the most important thing.

Linda was asking in that other discussion what the red flags were if any? Do we know what a red flag is when we see it? in most cases I would say yes... but the thing is, that we may not see the red flags straight away.

It would be interesting to see if we could try to come up with a list of things to look out for.... I think that may be what she was thinking... but then what do we do if a red flag or possible red flag exists.

IMO possible red flags are:

previous attempt to gain access to the US

previous marriage that ended when you met. (husband to follow after she paves the way)

making no attempt to learn English

does not have time or interest to talk to you regulary

made a huge life change when you met... quit working or school...

insists on regular transfers of $ that are far beyond the standard wage that will continue after they arrive in the US.

I think your list is a good start....my husband goes to English classes to attempt to learn english, but hasn't mastered it as much as I'd hope he would before he gets over here. I've talked to lots of people and have been told that it'll get better once he comes over here because he'll be immersed in English and will be forced to learn it. I agree.

Your money transfer point is a good one too...however, I'd like to put emphasis on transfers of $ that are far beyond the standard wage.

If I move to Vietnam there is no way I could keep my house. Even if I was working in Vietnam, it would be impossible to make enough money to pay my mortgage. The housing collapse has virtually eliminated any equity I had, so if I sold my house now I would have to pay the mortgage company to make up the difference between what I owe and what I could sell the home for. If there's any good news, it's that my mortgage rates have plummeted, so I'm paying off principal a lot faster now.

I'm also supporting my mother and daughter now, though neither of them are tax deductible dependents. If I move to Vietnam then they would both be on their own, and neither has sufficient income to get their own apartment.

On the other hand, Phuong also has two children who are dependent on her for support, but both of them will be coming with her to the US. Her home is paid for, and as long as she can keep one of her relatives living there while she's in the US, then she can keep her home.

For me, moving to Vietnam, even temporarily, is an absolute last resort. Being with my fiancee is not just "enough reason to move" - it is the only reason I would even consider it.

Actually, if you get a job with an American or international company they compensate you based on their standards of living (for the most part) Living in VN, you'd have a low cost of living and can make potentially 30,000+ in residual income to pay off debt and etc. you leave in the US. This is a great way to pay off that very quickly!

If this whole AP doesn't work out for me, I'll move back to VN after I can secure myself a job--I even checked out if they had any openings at the Consulate in HCM!! LOL...there was one that closed one 9/15 for a shipping clerk that paid $35,000!! Then it made me wonder why there was such a HUGE difference in salaries between US Citizens and VN Nationals. VN Nationals potential wasn't even $6,000.

[ScottThuy 140]

What in the world are you talking about?

Nothing posted prior to your post was complaining about being scammed.

And no one is indicting Vietnamese women.

And all of the posters in this entire thread seem to be quite happy with their choices.

I am Very happy .. Will be much more happy when we are not so far apart... that day is not so far away only a few months.

[ScottThuy 140]

Linda,

When they entered her name in the system it was already there as I have booked several flights for the both of us and the email on her account is mine.. if they pull her name up and have the correct ph # then they will see my email ... the same as if I booked for her again through the office in HCMC or HaNoi... She wasn't sad long.. after a few minutes of chatting she was back to being happy to see and hear me.

I was amazed at the difference between the pay for USC and VNC's at the consulate as well... when you think about it though.. 6k in VN is a bunch of $$$$ .. My SO only makes less than 2k with a degree and in the city as a manager... I dont know that I would want to work in the consulate after having dealt with this system already

It could be very easy for a USC to save a huge amount of $ in VN working. I can still make my salary teaching online while in VN as well as a modest salary teaching English or working at a university in VN. I could easily save 150k+ a year if I was there.. just need a good internet connection. I think you will be out of AP soon enough...

[lindal24 1]

I was amazed at the difference between the pay for USC and VNC's at the consulate as well... when you think about it though.. 6k in VN is a bunch of $$$$ .. My SO only makes less than 2k with a degree and in the city as a manager... I dont know that I would want to work in the consulate after having dealt with this system already

It could be very easy for a USC to save a huge amount of $ in VN working. I can still make my salary teaching online while in VN as well as a modest salary teaching English or working at a university in VN. I could easily save 150k+ a year if I was there.. just need a good internet connection. I think you will be out of AP soon enough...

If I could easily save 150k+ per year, I'd move there instantly...what do you do again?

I'm hoping we'll be out of AP soon too...

[ScottThuy 140]

I was amazed at the difference between the pay for USC and VNC's at the consulate as well... when you think about it though.. 6k in VN is a bunch of $$$$ .. My SO only makes less than 2k with a degree and in the city as a manager... I dont know that I would want to work in the consulate after having dealt with this system already

It could be very easy for a USC to save a huge amount of $ in VN working. I can still make my salary teaching online while in VN as well as a modest salary teaching English or working at a university in VN. I could easily save 150k+ a year if I was there.. just need a good internet connection. I think you will be out of AP soon enough...

If I could easily save 150k+ per year, I'd move there instantly...what do you do again?

I'm hoping we'll be out of AP soon too...

College Professor.. primarily online and I teach at several universities... many irons in the fire at all times... My main issue is the custody arrangement with my ex for my son... In FL there is no sole custody unless one parent signs away all rights or a court decrees rights revoked.. this seldom happens so even though she cant see him when shes in prison, she has the right to keep me from taking him out of the country to live..In Fl they use the term parental responsibility. Even though he is not allowed to be alone with her she still has a say in what goes on in his life to some degree.

I had to actually get a court order to get him a passport because she didnt want him going with me on holiday (that would make me happy so thumbs down to that)... I dont see her saying ok take him to VN... not in my lifetime...

[David-Hien 11]

I'm not trying to persuade all of you that all Vietnamese brides came to US are in truthful marriage, but if your guys didn't believe them, why don't your guys come to Vietnam to live with them to avoid scammers coming to your country? Hummm, I like that idea.

I should ask him to come to VN so I didn't have to give up my house, my University degree and my good job to come to the USA to work in McDonald restaurant to look for money to came back to school. I had to start over everything.

You chose the wrong ones by yourselves and now complain for all of the brides.

What in the world are you talking about?

Nothing posted prior to your post was complaining about being scammed.

And no one is indicting Vietnamese women.

And all of the posters in this entire thread seem to be quite happy with their choices.

Anh Map, I felt frustrating because of many posts in two threads, specially in the thread of Calilove, then it appears another thread that said about this story again. Do you think it's two cases or one? That why I said so.

I knew why your guys got scammers, I used to work in 4-star-hotel in Saigon. I understood what would happen, however, I couldnot let it go when you guys said bad things about all Vietnamese brides.

As you all said, it's risky to get a Vietnamese brides, if you knew so why were you not carefully? I feel sad to read these posts.

I'm planning to return to VN for our life later. I'm trying to think out some kind of business or jobs for my husband and me to settle our life in VN when we got old enough in retirement time.

Edited September 20, 2009 by Hien

[ScottThuy 140]

I'm not trying to persuade all of you that all Vietnamese brides came to US are in truthful marriage, but if your guys didn't believe them, why don't your guys come to Vietnam to live with them to avoid scammers coming to your country? Hummm, I like that idea.

I should ask him to come to VN so I didn't have to give up my house, my University degree and my good job to come to the USA to work in McDonald restaurant to look for money to came back to school. I had to start over everything.

You chose the wrong ones by yourselves and now complain for all of the brides.

What in the world are you talking about?

Nothing posted prior to your post was complaining about being scammed.

And no one is indicting Vietnamese women.

And all of the posters in this entire thread seem to be quite happy with their choices.

Anh Map, I felt frustrating because of many posts in two threads, specially in the thread of Calilove, then it appears another thread that said about this story again. Do you think it's two cases or one? That why I said so.

I knew why your guys got scammers, I used to work in 4-star-hotel in Saigon. I understood what would happen, however, I couldnot let it go when you guys said bad things about all Vietnamese brides.

As you all said, it's risky to get a Vietnamese brides, if you knew so why were you not carefully? I feel sad to read these posts.

I'm planning to return to VN for our life later. I'm trying to think out some kind of business or jobs for my husband and me to settle our life in VN when we got old enough in retirement time.

Its 2 cases.. Cali girl came back Sunday.. This guy similar thing but some differences happened this weekend...

Nobody is saying bad things about all VN brides... It is the few sneaky ones that make everyone wonder about the rest...

When you find a good business .. let me know I want to go there and retire also...

[Kevin&Loan 0]

Love is blind. My first marriage to a doctor failed miserably simply because we approach the life differently. She dissed everything Viet, worshiped the American way of life while I tend to favor Viet culture more. Nonetheless, I loved her once. With my wife now, I never ever thought of the possibility of marrying anyone in Vietnam but it was love that brought us together. This December will mark 5 years of our marriage and our son will turn 3 soon and until today, I still don't know how I could possibly fall in love for someone who was half way around the globe. All I know is I took a chance. So did my wife. She had a very successful restaurant in Vietnam, made more than "enough" and she had met many Viet Kieu before me. I have a solid great job, professional by day, bachelor by night but somehow our destinies crossed path. I now trade my party nights for quite nights with my son and my wife gather around the living room laughing over comedy skits on TV. She traded her lucrative but always busy business for a very simple job with much less money at the nail salon but more quite and happiness. So I guess our 50/50 chance turned out favorably for us. We either made it or break it. Simple as that. So guys, don't doubt. Don't worry about what others say. You live your life they way you see fit. Just love and treasure what you have. Everyone has intentions, good or bad but it is all about the betterment of their lives. We are here to lend hand of support for each other. The bickering does us no good. Let's focus to the matter at hand ... that is getting that PINK