Another HCMC black eye

[Anh map 2,098]

According to the OP, fiancee scammed him.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...218925&st=0

Edited September 19, 2009 by Anh map

[BinhJerome 14]

This case sounds so very similar to Calilove, maybe the same person?

[ScottThuy 140]

According to the OP, fiancee scammed him.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...218925&st=0

Thanks Roger.. This really Sucks! Those of us with legit relationships are really having to pay for the deeds of these scammers. I really feel for the guys that are ending up in these situations... Everyone I know has said be careful rather than congratulations when they found out we are getting married. Its pretty messed up that stigma is in place for VN spouses.

As if it werent bad enough already all we need is another report to the consulate that they let one more slip by... I really wish they could change the interview process to improve it so the can identify fraud more than they are... I actually would welcome one of those two party interviews where she gets interviewed as do I. Maybe if they did that it would prevent situations like this.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

According to the OP, fiancee scammed him.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...218925&st=0

Thanks Roger.. This really Sucks! Those of us with legit relationships are really having to pay for the deeds of these scammers. I really feel for the guys that are ending up in these situations... Everyone I know has said be careful rather than congratulations when they found out we are getting married. Its pretty messed up that stigma is in place for VN spouses.

As if it werent bad enough already all we need is another report to the consulate that they let one more slip by... I really wish they could change the interview process to improve it so the can identify fraud more than they are... I actually would welcome one of those two party interviews where she gets interviewed as do I. Maybe if they did that it would prevent situations like this.

I'm afraid that probably wouldn't help much. It's easy for us, as petitioners, to think that we could convince the CO that the relationship is sincere if only we got a chance to talk to them. In reality, I don't think the CO's ever question whether the petitioner is sincere. They don't need to hear the petitioner say "I really DO love her!", because they never really doubted that. The petitioner isn't the one who has a motive to lie - the beneficiary is. Some of these girls would go through the fires of hell to get a visa, so a Stokes interrogation would be a piece of cake for them. They've already played their USC petitioner for a year or more, and probably already asked a gazillion questions to bone up for the interview. Frankly, I don't think there's a hurdle tall enough you could throw in front of them that they wouldn't willing prepare themselves for.

In my (somewhat useless) opinion, fraud won't end until you remove the motive for it. Right now, that motive is a visa, followed by a quick unconditional green card. It's easy for a girl to pretend to love a guy for a few weeks at a time, a few times a year. It's not so easy to keep that up, day after day, for two years. Most scammers are going to try to find the fastest way out of the marriage while retaining their ability to get that unconditional green card. If a divorce can be obtained quickly, they'll take that route. If they happen to be in a state where divorce can take a year or more, they'll choose VAWA. Occasionally, they have idiot uncles who give them bad advice, and they reveal their hand before the last bet has been placed.

Fraud could be drastically reduced if they eliminated all waivers of the joint filing requirement. For good measure, they could increase the conditional status period to 3 years - the same as the amount of time required to apply for citizenship. The US government has got to stop looking at deportation as if it were some sort of cruel and unusual punishment.

[Anh map 2,098]

I agree with Jim, someone intent on scamming a visa would pass the interview.

More investigation at AOS/Removal of Conditions may be of use.

One thing I remember from our AOS interview was the walk to the IO's desk. We were going into a maze of cubicles but he followed us rather than led us. Maybe it was nothing, or maybe he wanted to see how we interacted while walking down the hall and then down the row of cubes.

Sucks for the USC in this case. And makes the hill harder to climb for those coming afterwards.

[David-Hien 11]

I'm not trying to persuade all of you that all Vietnamese brides came to US are in truthful marriage, but if your guys didn't believe them, why don't your guys come to Vietnam to live with them to avoid scammers coming to your country? Hummm, I like that idea.

I should ask him to come to VN so I didn't have to give up my house, my University degree and my good job to come to the USA to work in McDonald restaurant to look for money to came back to school. I had to start over everything.

You chose the wrong ones by yourselves and now complain for all of the brides.

[ScottThuy 140]

I'm not trying to persuade all of you that all Vietnamese brides came to US are in truthful marriage, but if your guys didn't believe them, why don't your guys come to Vietnam to live with them to avoid scammers coming to your country? Hummm, I like that idea.

I should ask him to come to VN so I didn't have to give up my house, my University degree and my good job to come to the USA to work in McDonald restaurant to look for money to came back to school. I had to start over everything.

You chose the wrong ones by yourselves and now complain for all of the brides.

If I could take my son to live there and be sure he could get a high quality education, I would move this week. And I know she would prefer if I move there anyway...

[lindal24 1]

If I could take my son to live there and be sure he could get a high quality education, I would move this week. And I know she would prefer if I move there anyway...

They have great international schools there that probably offer a better than here in the states. He'd also get a chance to become fluent in Vietnamese!!

[BinhJerome 14]

I'm not trying to persuade all of you that all Vietnamese brides came to US are in truthful marriage, but if your guys didn't believe them, why don't your guys come to Vietnam to live with them to avoid scammers coming to your country? Hummm, I like that idea.

I should ask him to come to VN so I didn't have to give up my house, my University degree and my good job to come to the USA to work in McDonald restaurant to look for money to came back to school. I had to start over everything.

You chose the wrong ones by yourselves and now complain for all of the brides.

I agree with your statement. I think the living conditions with health care are a bit better in America, and I think the schooling is just a bit better than the international schooling over there. Most of the brides in Vietnam do not have their own house and live with family. I would not mind living with her family if I moved there at all. Some people would. Also most or some of the American men over here have their own houses and good jobs as well. So for them to move to a foreign country would be a bit harder. I understand that some Viet brides do have their own house and good jobs as well. But for a foreign person to try to get a good job in Vietnam might be hard. I am currently getting my teaching degree so that I can move there to be with Binh if we get denied for her Visa, also we have the plan on moving back to Vietnam after she gets a green card. This way when we live in Vietnam and I can teach we will be able to travel back and forth without the hassle of the visa so that she can come with to visit family. I also try to not blame all this fraud on the wife either. One person tells us a story that the fiancée just left and said nothing, then calls and says it is over. The next thing we hear is that she came home, then we hear that he forbid her to see her family, then the next 100 posts he is trying to say what he did not say. I know there is 2 sides to each story. Yes there are many women that commit fraud, and there are also many men that only want house slaves as well. I agree that they need to make it harder to get citizenship. I think if the husband beats on the woman then she should go back to her country, then forbid the man to ever bring another foreign woman to America. If you make it where a person can skip a process to get the green card it makes it easier to fraud the system, but if you make it where when you attempt to skip a step you are forced to go home. That might not be rite to the people that are truly being abused or cheated on or what ever, but look at all the people that can not come to America that are not trying to fraud the system. It is not fair for us either. My mother always told me "life is not fair" She was very correct about that.

Jerome

[BinhJerome 14]

I'm not trying to persuade all of you that all Vietnamese brides came to US are in truthful marriage, but if your guys didn't believe them, why don't your guys come to Vietnam to live with them to avoid scammers coming to your country? Hummm, I like that idea.

I should ask him to come to VN so I didn't have to give up my house, my University degree and my good job to come to the USA to work in McDonald restaurant to look for money to came back to school. I had to start over everything.

You chose the wrong ones by yourselves and now complain for all of the brides.

If I could take my son to live there and be sure he could get a high quality education, I would move this week. And I know she would prefer if I move there anyway...

Scott the international schools are very good in Vietnam, most have a foreign curriculum and they are focused on English language not the Vietnamese language. I know there is more to the move than just good schooling, maybe you can petition the courts for your child to be able to go there. Send him back during the summer breaks so he can be with his mother and maybe the Christmas break as well, and alternate between tet and Christmas each year. Just a thought.

Jerome

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I'm not trying to persuade all of you that all Vietnamese brides came to US are in truthful marriage, but if your guys didn't believe them, why don't your guys come to Vietnam to live with them to avoid scammers coming to your country? Hummm, I like that idea.

I should ask him to come to VN so I didn't have to give up my house, my University degree and my good job to come to the USA to work in McDonald restaurant to look for money to came back to school. I had to start over everything.

You chose the wrong ones by yourselves and now complain for all of the brides.

Most men don't have any doubts that their VN fiancee or wife is sincere. If we did, we wouldn't go through with it, and we certainly wouldn't move to Vietnam in order to make her prove it. That's like saying you should burn your money in order to prove your fiancee isn't marrying you for money.

I would happily move to Vietnam in order to be with my fiancee, but I consider that an absolute last resort. My fiancee also has a house, a degree, and a good job (by Vietnam standards). I have the same. In order for us to be together, we're going to have to make sacrifices. If I move to Vietnam I would have a lot to lose, and very little to gain other than being with my fiancee. She also has a lot to lose by moving to the US, but also a lot to gain. The standard of living in the US is a lot better, the quality of healthcare and university education is a lot better, and there's far less corruption in the US. If she lives in the US then we'll be able to freely travel back to Vietnam. If I move to Vietnam, then she'll never be able to travel with me back to the US. In fact, I can't think of a single aspect of living in Vietnam that would be better than living in the US.

Nobody get's married for only one reason. Everyone has a lot of factors to consider when choosing a partner, and those factors vary greatly from one person to another. The only common factor is love, and in a lot of cases love is not the top priority. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. For instance, a pregnant girl might want to get married right away so that her child will be legitimate. She might love her fiance very much, but the pregnancy has made the marriage more urgent. Another person might have a serious health condition, but they've recently lost their job and their health coverage. They might decide to marry right away in order to get health coverage from their partners employer. Again, they might be very much in love, but life has changed their priorities.

We have a lot of reasons for wanting to marry our Vietnamese fiancee's, and they have a lot of reasons for wanting to marry us. The only thing either of us should require from the other is that love be an important factor on that list of reasons.

The "wrong ones", as you say, are the girls for whom a green card is the top priority, and love is nowhere on their list of reasons for getting married. The majority of Vietnamese girls applying for fiancee or spousal visas are not one of these girls. Unfortunately, the percentage of girls in Vietnam who do this is much higher than it is in most other countries. As a result, the consulate suspects everyone of fraud, and it makes it much more difficult for all of us. Nobody would intentionally "choose" one of these girls, but the heart often does not think as clearly as the head. In some cases there are warning signs that a man in love chooses to ignore. In many cases, there are no warning signs. We read about far too many of these cases here on VJ.

Scott is correct - when an American man tells his friends and family about his engagement to a Vietnamese girl, the first thing most of them say is NOT "Congratulations!". The first thing they say is "Be careful! Make sure she's not scamming you for a green card!". It's unfortunate, but Vietnamese girls should realize that this problem is huge, and at some point their fiance is going to wonder if he's going to be a victim.

[BinhJerome 14]

I'm not trying to persuade all of you that all Vietnamese brides came to US are in truthful marriage, but if your guys didn't believe them, why don't your guys come to Vietnam to live with them to avoid scammers coming to your country? Hummm, I like that idea.

I should ask him to come to VN so I didn't have to give up my house, my University degree and my good job to come to the USA to work in McDonald restaurant to look for money to came back to school. I had to start over everything.

You chose the wrong ones by yourselves and now complain for all of the brides.

Most men don't have any doubts that their VN fiancee or wife is sincere. If we did, we wouldn't go through with it, and we certainly wouldn't move to Vietnam in order to make her prove it. That's like saying you should burn your money in order to prove your fiancee isn't marrying you for money.

I would happily move to Vietnam in order to be with my fiancee, but I consider that an absolute last resort. My fiancee also has a house, a degree, and a good job (by Vietnam standards). I have the same. In order for us to be together, we're going to have to make sacrifices. If I move to Vietnam I would have a lot to lose, and very little to gain other than being with my fiancee. She also has a lot to lose by moving to the US, but also a lot to gain. The standard of living in the US is a lot better, the quality of healthcare and university education is a lot better, and there's far less corruption in the US. If she lives in the US then we'll be able to freely travel back to Vietnam. If I move to Vietnam, then she'll never be able to travel with me back to the US. In fact, I can't think of a single aspect of living in Vietnam that would be better than living in the US.

Nobody get's married for only one reason. Everyone has a lot of factors to consider when choosing a partner, and those factors vary greatly from one person to another. The only common factor is love, and in a lot of cases love is not the top priority. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. For instance, a pregnant girl might want to get married right away so that her child will be legitimate. She might love her fiance very much, but the pregnancy has made the marriage more urgent. Another person might have a serious health condition, but they've recently lost their job and their health coverage. They might decide to marry right away in order to get health coverage from their partners employer. Again, they might be very much in love, but life has changed their priorities.

We have a lot of reasons for wanting to marry our Vietnamese fiancee's, and they have a lot of reasons for wanting to marry us. The only thing either of us should require from the other is that love be an important factor on that list of reasons.

The "wrong ones", as you say, are the girls for whom a green card is the top priority, and love is nowhere on their list of reasons for getting married. The majority of Vietnamese girls applying for fiancee or spousal visas are not one of these girls. Unfortunately, the percentage of girls in Vietnam who do this is much higher than it is in most other countries. As a result, the consulate suspects everyone of fraud, and it makes it much more difficult for all of us. Nobody would intentionally "choose" one of these girls, but the heart often does not think as clearly as the head. In some cases there are warning signs that a man in love chooses to ignore. In many cases, there are no warning signs. We read about far too many of these cases here on VJ.

Scott is correct - when an American man tells his friends and family about his engagement to a Vietnamese girl, the first thing most of them say is NOT "Congratulations!". The first thing they say is "Be careful! Make sure she's not scamming you for a green card!". It's unfortunate, but Vietnamese girls should realize that this problem is huge, and at some point their fiance is going to wonder if he's going to be a victim.

I dont know about some of the statements you made. I agree if you just move there it would and should be last resort. I agree with that. If just being with your fiancee is not enough reason to move to be with her then I do not know what is. You might ponder this when the time comes. If you do not get the visa, move there then file the cr1 Live there while this process is going on, this also helps prove your relationship as well. Then when it is approved come to the us and get the green card. IF/when I have to move there I am not selling my house this way if we are forced to file for the cr1 while I work and live there I will still have a house here to move to after we get that visa. I also think Scott is correct and incorrect. I do not think it is just Vietnam that people say be careful not congrats to, but to all countries.

Jerome

[ScottThuy 140]

Jim This whole fraud thing has caused me problems from the beginning... My mother and I are not as close as we were a year ago because all of the women at the nail salon she goes to has convinced her that Thuy is just nother VN cave trying to get a GC. Thuy and I talk about every aspect of our daily lives.... the topic has come up and the few times that it crossed my mind, thanks to the constant barage of insinuations from others, I told her what I was thinking and feeling and it really hurt her. Regardless of what we know in our hearts and minds, the constant bombardment of this negative message that our SO is scamming us can take its toll.

Last week I got an email from jetstar with an itinerary for my SO to fly to HCMC for the weekend, her info is associated with my email from previous travels together.... It was a 143$ flight. Up to that point I had no insight into any reason she would travel and 143 is a month salary for her, I know she does not like HCMC and only flies if I am at the destination.. she hates flying. Quick things run through my head.. why is she flying to HCMC for the weekend? Where did the $ come from? Am I being scammed? I called her when I knew she was about to finish her english class and she had no idea what I was talking about. I could hear the confusion in her voice. She dropped what she was doing and drove home so she could find out what the deal was and talk to me on yahoo. She called jetstar and it ended up that her boss had paid for several of the managers at the office to go to HCMC for the weekend to work at a conference. But had yet to tell them that they were going out of town for the weekend. I got to hear the entire conversation with jetstar as well as the two calls with the manager... she was really mad at him. When I told her what had gone through my head when I got the emails.. bam she went from angry with her boss to sad that I doubted her. Being thousands of miles away does not help the situation any.

Do I look at it as a "red flag"? no, because I personally know her boss and how he does things. Its sad to say that the red flag that is there is the VN flag. That is the huge red flag that says the relationship is a fraud. Every US/VN relationship no matter how strong will suffer in some way as a result of those that have perpetrated fraud to get to the US. Those in AP are feeling it now. IMO They are all in AP because of the high fraud through HCMC.

I agree that if there was a different rule when it came to adjusting status and becoming a citizen, then it would diminish the number of fraud cases. 3 years? why not 5 years... marriage does not last 5 years... buh bye... the instances of VAWA claims would jump through the roof though... get married for a year and then have a relative beat the ####### out of her and claim the husband did it.. husband goes to jail, she potentially gets everything she wants and can stay...

Linda was asking in that other discussion what the red flags were if any? Do we know what a red flag is when we see it? in most cases I would say yes... but the thing is, that we may not see the red flags straight away.

It would be interesting to see if we could try to come up with a list of things to look out for.... I think that may be what she was thinking... but then what do we do if a red flag or possible red flag exists.

Can a SO having a close relationship with relatives or friends in the US be a possible red flag? Not that them having friends or family here is not a good thing, it would be nice if they knew someone here other than the spouse and his/her friends and family.

IMO possible red flags are:

previous attempt to gain access to the US

previous marriage that ended when you met. (husband to follow after she paves the way)

making no attempt to learn English

does not have time or interest to talk to you regulary

made a huge life change when you met... quit working or school...

insists on regular transfers of $ that are far beyond the standard wage that will continue after they arrive in the US. An example is one that I recently saw in a PI discussion... 400 bucks a month in these countries is not like 400 bucks in the US. It is understandable that one would want to improve the quality of life of ones SO but it usually does not work the way we plan. In my case my SO does not manage her $. Her mother has always managed the family $. I know if I send any $ it goes into the family pot. The $ improves the quality of life of the entire family.. not just the SO.

[ScottThuy 140]

I also think Scott is correct and incorrect. I do not think it is just Vietnam that people say be careful not congrats to, but to all countries.

Jerome

When did I say this only happens in VN or with VN spouses? VN is one of several countries dealing with this, but it happens to be one of a few at the top end of the list. The reason they are saying you are being scammed is because the SO is from VN. They would not say that if she was from Canada.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I dont know about some of the statements you made. I agree if you just move there it would and should be last resort. I agree with that. If just being with your fiancee is not enough reason to move to be with her then I do not know what is. You might ponder this when the time comes. If you do not get the visa, move there then file the cr1 Live there while this process is going on, this also helps prove your relationship as well. Then when it is approved come to the us and get the green card. IF/when I have to move there I am not selling my house this way if we are forced to file for the cr1 while I work and live there I will still have a house here to move to after we get that visa. I also think Scott is correct and incorrect. I do not think it is just Vietnam that people say be careful not congrats to, but to all countries.

Jerome

If I move to Vietnam there is no way I could keep my house. Even if I was working in Vietnam, it would be impossible to make enough money to pay my mortgage. The housing collapse has virtually eliminated any equity I had, so if I sold my house now I would have to pay the mortgage company to make up the difference between what I owe and what I could sell the home for. If there's any good news, it's that my mortgage rates have plummeted, so I'm paying off principal a lot faster now.

I'm also supporting my mother and daughter now, though neither of them are tax deductible dependents. If I move to Vietnam then they would both be on their own, and neither has sufficient income to get their own apartment.

On the other hand, Phuong also has two children who are dependent on her for support, but both of them will be coming with her to the US. Her home is paid for, and as long as she can keep one of her relatives living there while she's in the US, then she can keep her home.

For me, moving to Vietnam, even temporarily, is an absolute last resort. Being with my fiancee is not just "enough reason to move" - it is the only reason I would even consider it.

You're right - it's not just Vietnam, but it's also not all countries. Very few would be suspicious of a visa scam if the beneficiary is from England or Canada. People suspect visa scams when the beneficiary is from a poor country, and there's a strong economic incentive to migrate. Vietnam is one of the poorest countries on earth. On top of that, there have been several immigration programs since the war which were aimed at giving Vietnamese people an easier path to migrate to the US. As a result, there is a comparatively large Vietnamese population in the US relative to the overall population of Vietnam. A lot of those Viet Kieu want to help their family members join them in the US. This is yet another reason that some will get involved in a sham marriage, and a contributing factor that has resulted in Vietnam being one of the highest visa fraud countries in the world.

I told my three best friends about my engagement. One of them is a Croatian married to a woman from Chile. The second is an Argentinian who is divorcing his Mexican wife. The third was born in the US with a wife from the Philippines. Collectively, they have a large circle of immigrant friends and family. Before any of them offered a response, they asked where my new fiancee was from. When I said "Vietnam", the response was the same each time - "Be careful!".