Does Israel have a right to exist?

[rclouse 0]

While I voted yes, it doesn't really matter. Perhaps a different place should have been chosen for there to be a Jewish state, but what's done is done and Israel where it is isn't going away without a huge amount of bloodshed, mostly by the Palestinians and any other Muslims they bring into it. The only other option is two states in peace.

So, war without end? Or two state peace? Which will it be, extremists?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

They should never have given Jerusalem entirely to the jews. That would IMO solve much of the problem.

[mawilson 2,133]

There was no "nation" of Palestine or "Palestinian people" when Israel was created,

or at least the people who lived there (about 500,000 at the time) didn't identify

themselves as such. Their relationship with the Jewish people and the State of Israel

has been fundamental in shaping that identity.

Interesting. So what were they prior to the creation of the State of Israel? Who did the land technically belong to, as in who had sovereign control of it?

British Mandate of Palestine -- which included today's territories of Israel, Gaza,

West Bank and Jordan (aka "Transjordan".)

In 1947, the British government decided to terminate the Mandate and passed the

responsibility over Palestine to the UN. Shortly afterwards, the UN General

Assembly passed a plan (UN Resolution 181) to partition Palestine into two states,

Jewish and Arab.

[gwenneh 7]

There was no "nation" of Palestine or "Palestinian people" when Israel was created,

or at least the people who lived there (about 500,000 at the time) didn't identify

themselves as such. Their relationship with the Jewish people and the State of Israel

has been fundamental in shaping that identity.

Interesting. So what were they prior to the creation of the State of Israel? Who did the land technically belong to, as in who had sovereign control of it?

British Mandate of Palestine -- which included today's territories of Israel, Gaza,

West Bank and Jordan (aka "Transjordan".)

In 1947, the British government decided to terminate the Mandate and passed the

responsibility over Palestine to the UN. Shortly afterwards, the UN General

Assembly passed a plan (UN Resolution 181) to partition Palestine into two states,

Jewish and Arab.

So the territory belonged to...Gaza, West Bank and Jordan? I'm confused. Before third parties came in and started mucking things up and giving land to people it didn't belong to, who owned the land?

Edited July 14, 2006 by Gwen666

[chri'stina 190]

There was no "nation" of Palestine or "Palestinian people" when Israel was created,

or at least the people who lived there (about 500,000 at the time) didn't identify

themselves as such. Their relationship with the Jewish people and the State of Israel

has been fundamental in shaping that identity.

Interesting. So what were they prior to the creation of the State of Israel? Who did the land technically belong to, as in who had sovereign control of it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine

According to the above,

"Before the end of World War I, Palestine was a part of the Ottoman Empire. The British, under General Allenby during the Arab Revolt stirred up by the British intelligence officer T. E. Lawrence, defeated the Turkish forces in 1917 and occupied Palestine and Syria. The land was administered by the British for the remainder of the war."

and

"The United Kingdom was granted control of Palestine by the Versailles Peace Conference which established the League of Nations in 1919 and appointed Herbert Samuel, a former Postmaster General in the British cabinet, who was instrumental in drafting the Balfour Declaration, as its first High Commissioner in Palestine. During World War I the British had made two promises regarding territory in the Middle East. Britain had promised the local Arabs, through Lawrence of Arabia, independence for a united Arab country covering most of the Arab Middle East, in exchange for their supporting the British; and Britain had promised to create and foster a Jewish national home as laid out in the Balfour Declaration, 1917."

[gwenneh 7]

Before the end of World War I, Palestine was a part of the Ottoman Empire

Ah. Thank you.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

There was no "nation" of Palestine or "Palestinian people" when Israel was created,

or at least the people who lived there (about 500,000 at the time) didn't identify

themselves as such. Their relationship with the Jewish people and the State of Israel

has been fundamental in shaping that identity.

Interesting. So what were they prior to the creation of the State of Israel? Who did the land technically belong to, as in who had sovereign control of it?

British Mandate of Palestine -- which included today's territories of Israel, Gaza,

West Bank and Jordan (aka "Transjordan".)

In 1947, the British government decided to terminate the Mandate and passed the

responsibility over Palestine to the UN. Shortly afterwards, the UN General

Assembly passed a plan (UN Resolution 181) to partition Palestine into two states,

Jewish and Arab.

So the territory belonged to...Gaza, West Bank and Jordan? I'm confused. Before third parties came in and started mucking things up and giving land to people it didn't belong to, who owned the land?

The British encouraged migration of Jews from Europe to part of the mandate they had contorl over. When it was time to leave, they took the part where Jews had settled and added some more and made it Israel.

[chri'stina 190]

So, shouldn't people really be mad at the British??? j/k

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

The British are at fault for lots of the worlds problems. They're the real bad guys.

[gwenneh 7]

The British encouraged migration of Jews from Europe to part of the mandate they had contorl over. When it was time to leave, they took the part where Jews had settled and added some more and made it Israel.

Okay. So the British owned the land? Won by battle? Not the Palestinians? And they gave it to the Israelites?

If it was their land to deed as they wished...hm. Interesting.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

If it was their land to deed as they wished...hm. Interesting.

There is a school of thought that land belongs to the people who live on it, not the people who won it by battle. If everyone agreed that winning land in battle made it yours and you were free to do with it as you wished, there would be no conflict, no war.

[mawilson 2,133]

There was no "nation" of Palestine or "Palestinian people" when Israel was created,

or at least the people who lived there (about 500,000 at the time) didn't identify

themselves as such. Their relationship with the Jewish people and the State of Israel

has been fundamental in shaping that identity.

Interesting. So what were they prior to the creation of the State of Israel? Who did the land technically belong to, as in who had sovereign control of it?

British Mandate of Palestine -- which included today's territories of Israel, Gaza,

West Bank and Jordan (aka "Transjordan".)

In 1947, the British government decided to terminate the Mandate and passed the

responsibility over Palestine to the UN. Shortly afterwards, the UN General

Assembly passed a plan (UN Resolution 181) to partition Palestine into two states,

Jewish and Arab.

So the territory belonged to...Gaza, West Bank and Jordan? I'm confused. Before third parties came in and started mucking things up and giving land to people it didn't belong to, who owned the land?

....belonged to Britain.

There was no state of Jordan at the time; the Mandate covered "Palestine" (the modern

territories of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank) and "Transjordan" (all territory east of the

Jordan river. ) Transjordan was created by Britain as a semi-autonomous state (ruled by

the British-installed Prince Abdullah I), but both Palestine and Transjordan were administered

under a single British High Commissioner. When the mandate over Transjordan ended

in 1946 (or '47), it became an independent country (the Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan).

In 1950 Transjordan annexed the West Bank and renamed itself to the Hashemite Kingdom

of Jordan, or simply Jordan. During the 1967 war against Israel (along with Egypt and Syria),

Jordan lost its control of the West Bank, and it's still considered "occupied" by Israel.

[Lestat 0]

Yes, Israel does have right to exist, although its recent aggression into Lebanon is a severe overreaction.

[gwenneh 7]

There is a school of thought that land belongs to the people who live on it, not the people who won it by battle. If everyone agreed that winning land in battle made it yours and you were free to do with it as you wished, there would be no conflict, no war.

If we follow that logic, then, couldn't Britain come back and claim the US colonies as theirs? After all, they stole it from the rightful inhabitants first...

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

There is a school of thought that land belongs to the people who live on it, not the people who won it by battle. If everyone agreed that winning land in battle made it yours and you were free to do with it as you wished, there would be no conflict, no war.

If we follow that logic, then, couldn't Britain come back and claim the US colonies as theirs? After all, they stole it from the rightful inhabitants first...

one could also argue that america does not have the right to exist, since it was taken from the indians....