Welfare

[one...two...tree 2,762]

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,

naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'

Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?

When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?

When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?'

And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'

Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,

a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.'

Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?'

He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.'

~ Matthew 25: 35-45

Edited September 18, 2009 by Col. 'Bat' Guano

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think you'll find that the attitudes in this country (as exemplifed by this board) are rather more in line with the story of The Good Samaritan, only the Samaritan never shows up and the guy dies alone in a ditch.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Private Pike

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The suggestion that the welfare system is subject to endemic abuse isn't accurate imo.

The Welfare Reform Act put a limit on how long anyone can receive welfare from the government. I think it needs to be revised but I understand the intention of it. It'd be great to see similar limitations for corporate welfare, but their lobbyists will see to it that never happens.

I think you'll find that the attitudes in this country (as exemplifed by this board) are rather more in line with the story of The Good Samaritan, only the Samaritan never shows up and the guy dies alone in a ditch.

[NickD 203]

The suggestion that the welfare system is subject to endemic abuse isn't accurate imo.

The Welfare Reform Act put a limit on how long anyone can receive welfare from the government. I think it needs to be revised but I understand the intention of it. It'd be great to see similar limitations for corporate welfare, but their lobbyists will see to it that never happens.

I think you'll find that the attitudes in this country (as exemplifed by this board) are rather more in line with the story of The Good Samaritan, only the Samaritan never shows up and the guy dies alone in a ditch.

Ain't there something about separation from religion and state? If you do help the poor, make sure it's an IRS recognized charity that only does a bit of good with less than 10% of your donation. If you don't, can't deduct it from your income tax. Willy Nelson and Joe Louis will tell you all about this.

[Jasman0717 9]

Of course the government should provide services........if they didn't I'd be out of a job

[Autumnchik 6]

That's nice in theory, but the reality is, not every parent does promote education. So, should we let another generation perpetuate the same .. or should we try to break the cycle so future generations may believe in the power of education from the get go?

I have to agree and disagree. I think there is an excessive push in America for people to go to school. Why not promote a trade or starting your own business too? The current system unknowingly makes kids think that they either get an education or they are losers. Whereas, it should promote a range of options. After all, when you look at lot of people that are wealthy, or even those housewives shows, you will find that not to many of them hold degrees.

An example of this involves one of my cousins in Aus who actually dropped out to pursue a trade: (Bricklaying business)

• Owns two homes - worth about $600K each
• Beach house - worth about $750K
• Holiday house abroad - $350K
• Two boats - $150K each
• Three cars paid off - about $50K each
• I can only imagine how much cash he has.

Paid for it all outright. In the US this guy would be considered a dropout loser. Yet how many college educated Americans have anywhere near that and are debt free too? He started from zero; as in no trust fund or handout from mommy and daddy.

It was late last night and I was exhausted when posting When I say education, I mean traditional education as well as teaching trades ... because I consider that ALL education.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Ain't there something about separation from religion and state? If you do help the poor, make sure it's an IRS recognized charity that only does a bit of good with less than 10% of your donation. If you don't, can't deduct it from your income tax. Willy Nelson and Joe Louis will tell you all about this.

Nick, you don't have to follow a religion to have moral values about caring for the less fortunate. FEMA isn't some massive religious based program. We have welfare because we recognize the value in helping those who cannot help themselves and ask any local charity if they have the manpower or funds to help everyone who comes to them....they simply cannot help everyone or provide the kind of long term help like medical care that many who are poor need.

[AlHayatZween 2]

Are you really doing a debate? For real life or just VJ life?

IMHO, i think there are instances where welfare is good if it helps people who are legitimately down & out get back on their feet.

i agree that the current system is not working and riddled with fraud...

i also agree that there should be drug testing and job training/placement requirements and services... and that there should be some way to make it temporary especially if recipients are physically & emotionally able to work.

Yes, they are classroom debates. I teach English in Vietnam.

The best response today was "If we don't help them then they will burn the city down."

Cool

[NickD 203]

Ain't there something about separation from religion and state? If you do help the poor, make sure it's an IRS recognized charity that only does a bit of good with less than 10% of your donation. If you don't, can't deduct it from your income tax. Willy Nelson and Joe Louis will tell you all about this.

Nick, you don't have to follow a religion to have moral values about caring for the less fortunate. FEMA isn't some massive religious based program. We have welfare because we recognize the value in helping those who cannot help themselves and ask any local charity if they have the manpower or funds to help everyone who comes to them....they simply cannot help everyone or provide the kind of long term help like medical care that many who are poor need.

Only said that because the bible was quoted, have to find another reason to help people, LOL.

[NickD 203]

Guess what I fail to understand is why so many people are having kids with no visible means of supporting them. Not only here, but in the rest of the world as well.

[AlHayatZween 2]

Guess what I fail to understand is why so many people are having kids with no visible means of supporting them. Not only here, but in the rest of the world as well.

Well, in other countries, its kinda easier to understand: education resources few & far between, lack of public health resources, lack of medical care...

However, in this country there is no excuse. Anyone can walk into a PP or public health clinic and get free condoms by the handfuls... and sex education in schools begins in 5th or 6th grade through high school.

[Kevin and 10]

As a way to help people get back on track or people that are disabled, I say yes.

Welfare for big buisness, I say no.

[The_Dude 1,142]

To the op question. If you knew there was nothing to fall back on, would you take a mortgage on that you couldnt afford? Would you do your best at whatever job you had? Would you save money, instead of charging shite on a credit card?

All welfare recipients should be drug tested, just like I was when I was hired. Also they should have to do community time and pay it back!

It should be similar to a loan.

First of all, I call BULLSH!T on you passing a drug test. Your posts clearly indicate that you frequently smoke crack. Secondly, drug tests aren't cheap, how on earth do you propose this is funded? Nice try, but failed logic.

[The_Dude 1,142]

I have to agree and disagree. I think there is an excessive push in America for people to go to school. Why not promote a trade or starting your own business too? The current system unknowingly makes kids think that they either get an education or they are losers. Whereas, it should promote a range of options. After all, when you look at lot of people that are wealthy, or even those housewives shows, you will find that not to many of them hold degrees.

That is something that I never understood. University is not necessarily meant for everyone, and that is not an insult, nor is it a promotion of those who went to university. In the U.S. all parents tell their kids to go to college, and there is an implied derision of trade schools. Trade schools are a viable option for people, and quite often they fill jobs that are in desperate need of being filled, and pay quite well. It's a matter of perceptions for many though.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Rob and Mel

[Chica Yeyé 41]

I have to agree and disagree. I think there is an excessive push in America for people to go to school. Why not promote a trade or starting your own business too? The current system unknowingly makes kids think that they either get an education or they are losers. Whereas, it should promote a range of options. After all, when you look at lot of people that are wealthy, or even those housewives shows, you will find that not to many of them hold degrees.

That is something that I never understood. University is not necessarily meant for everyone, and that is not an insult, nor is it a promotion of those who went to university. In the U.S. all parents tell their kids to go to college, and there is an implied derision of trade schools. Trade schools are a viable option for people, and quite often they fill jobs that are in desperate need of being filled, and pay quite well. It's a matter of perceptions for many though.

WORD! WORD! WORD!

It is heartbreaking to have college students that would have been much better served, and their talents better used in trade school. This idiotic belief that there is only ONE kind of "intelligence" has made higher education into the biggest dream breaker ever. But then again, talk to people in the US about implementing -for instance- the French Academic Tracking system in K-12 and they will rip their dress.