The Stimulus Didn't Work

[dalegg 143]

Well, from my understanding, we are already heading out of the recession so its fixed now, isn't it? What's with the next 8 trillion dollars? Why is it needed?

The point is that the economy was not "destroyed". The financial system pretty much was, but the banks were bailed out, and they are still here and if you have good credit you can still get a loan. I just got one 3 months ago and it was as easy as ever. We had a recession like we've had many times and we would get out of it without the governments help as we've done before.

Ummm yah BUT all the banks are not still here and neither is a few trillion dollars in equity, where did it go...to the banks you speak so highly of. Then on top of that to COVER THEIR AZZES after they got bailed out by US they have raised most everyones interest rates to cover the losses they will sustain because of their lax lending efforts that put us in this mess to begin with.

And I hate to say it but WITHOUT the gov's stepping in on this one and using the NEWLY printed money to bail out the banks i'm sure we would be in QUITE THE SHYTPILE WE may have avoided up until now. If they had not stepped in on the automobile industry the only one left now would be FORD, and the gov owns a big chunk of the new GM, I really didn't know the government was in the private industry business.

You guys are totally missing the point, and I don't understand why. I grant you the bank bail out. I could debate with you on whether or not the stimulus was needed THIS YEAR, but for the sake of argument, I'll give it to you. No whining about this years 1.85 trillion dollar deficit okay? I'll just grant it to you that we were helpless without it THIS YEAR-okay?

But how in the bloody hell do you propose to convince me that we still need to have about an average of about a trillion dollars added to the deficit for the next 10 years because of this? Let me rephrase. Try all you want, you will not succeed. The thing that sucks is that we are likely stuck with this, regardless of the whether or not congress and the President are replaced in the next 4 years. Policies seem to just stick.

I speak so highly of banks? Didn't mean to.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

It was/is the worst recession since the Great Depression. The financial system was a disaster. Do you think it would recover qucker without any gov. intervention? Do you think that the current intervention helped at all or do you think it made it worse?

If the government had not intervened, the large banks would have collapsed.

Try getting a loan when there are no large banks. We would go back to the Mr Potter days.

That's my opinion too. I'm just trying to get a feel for what he thinks. I'm not being a #######.

[mawilson 2,133]

If the government had not intervened, the large banks would have collapsed.

Try getting a loan when there are no large banks. We would go back to the Mr Potter days.

The large banks would have collapsed and their assets would have been bought up on the cheap

by investors who would have priced them appropriately and the loans would have been quickly

renegotiated with homeowners to allow a profit to the investor. This is what happened with

Lehman Brothers.

The only losers would have been the banks' shareholders and the bond holders who loaned

the banks money.

When a company goes bankrupt, it doesn't just disappear. You're fooling yourself if you

think the bailout was meant for you, the taxpayer. There was already a mechanism in place

to protect the depositors - it's called the FDIC. You bailed out the shareholders and bond

holders of the failed banks.

[Heracles 417]

If the government had not intervened, the large banks would have collapsed.

Try getting a loan when there are no large banks. We would go back to the Mr Potter days.

The large banks would have collapsed and their assets would have been bought up on the cheap

by investors who would have priced them appropriately and the loans would have been quickly

renegotiated with homeowners to allow a profit to the investor. This is what happened with

Lehman Brothers.

The only losers would have been the banks' shareholders and the bond holders who loaned

the banks money.

When a company goes bankrupt, it doesn't just disappear. You're fooling yourself if you

think the bailout was meant for you, the taxpayer. There was already a mechanism in place

to protect the depositors - it's called the FDIC. You bailed out the shareholders and bond

holders of the failed banks.

100% correct.

I'm referring to the mentality. Fear is what stops people from spending or lending. Lending would have frozen as other banks panic; especially the small banks.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

If the government had not intervened, the large banks would have collapsed.

Try getting a loan when there are no large banks. We would go back to the Mr Potter days.

The large banks would have collapsed and their assets would have been bought up on the cheap

by investors who would have priced them appropriately and the loans would have been quickly

renegotiated with homeowners to allow a profit to the investor. This is what happened with

Lehman Brothers.

The only losers would have been the banks' shareholders and the bond holders who loaned

the banks money.

When a company goes bankrupt, it doesn't just disappear. You're fooling yourself if you

think the bailout was meant for you, the taxpayer. There was already a mechanism in place

to protect the depositors - it's called the FDIC. You bailed out the shareholders and bond

holders of the failed banks.

100% correct.

I'm referring to the mentality. Fear is what stops people from spending or lending. Lending would have frozen as other banks panic; especially the small banks.

No no my son. Sensible ppl quit spending when they realize the PARTY is over. This thing about getting ppl to spend is bullshite! Ppl wil never return to spending like it was before.

[mawilson 2,133]

Fear is what stops people from spending or lending. Lending would have frozen as other banks panic; especially the small banks.

Only those banks that took stupid risks and had toxic asset exposure.

There are over 5,000 banks in this country with more than $100 million in assets.

Many smaller banks refused TARP funds when the huge monsters (C, BAC, JPM, GS, WFC etc)

were going tits-up.

CHFC, DCOM, GBCI, HCBK, NYB, PCBK, SMTB, SYBT, TMP - all refused TARP when the world was ending.

They didn't "panic". They said, "thanks, but no thanks, Uncle Sam." Guess what?

They turned out to be great buys.

Edited September 18, 2009 by mawilson

[spookyturtle 9,466]

No no my son. Sensible ppl quit spending when they realize the PARTY is over. This thing about getting ppl to spend is bullshite! Ppl wil never return to spending like it was before.

Of course they will. Two oil embargos didn't stop people from buying gas guzzlers and driving a lot. $150 a barrel oil and a faltering economy finally slowed things down. If gas stayed at $2 gal and the economy recovers, what do you think will happen?

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

No no my son. Sensible ppl quit spending when they realize the PARTY is over. This thing about getting ppl to spend is bullshite! Ppl wil never return to spending like it was before.

Of course they will. Two oil embargos didn't stop people from buying gas guzzlers and driving a lot. $150 a barrel oil and a faltering economy finally slowed things down. If gas stayed at $2 gal and the economy recovers, what do you think will happen?

Your bein taught a lesson and dont even realize it. Hint Hint, Mr. ACORN is the teacher FOOL!

[spookyturtle 9,466]

No no my son. Sensible ppl quit spending when they realize the PARTY is over. This thing about getting ppl to spend is bullshite! Ppl wil never return to spending like it was before.

Of course they will. Two oil embargos didn't stop people from buying gas guzzlers and driving a lot. $150 a barrel oil and a faltering economy finally slowed things down. If gas stayed at $2 gal and the economy recovers, what do you think will happen?

Your bein taught a lesson and dont even realize it. Hint Hint, Mr. ACORN is the teacher FOOL!

I've lived thru the two oil embargos in the 70's. People didn't learn their lesson until gas hit $4 gal. If it went down to $2, they'd drive as they always have. I've learned plenty of lessons in life. I'm not a young punk like you. I tell it like it is, you talk out of your shithole.

Edited September 18, 2009 by spookyturtle

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

No no my son. Sensible ppl quit spending when they realize the PARTY is over. This thing about getting ppl to spend is bullshite! Ppl wil never return to spending like it was before.

Of course they will. Two oil embargos didn't stop people from buying gas guzzlers and driving a lot. $150 a barrel oil and a faltering economy finally slowed things down. If gas stayed at $2 gal and the economy recovers, what do you think will happen?

Your bein taught a lesson and dont even realize it. Hint Hint, Mr. ACORN is the teacher FOOL!

I've lived thru the two oil embargos in the 70's. People didn't learn their lesson until gas hit $4 gal. If it went down to $2, they'd drive as they always have. I've learned plenty of lessons in life. I'm not a young punk like you. I tell it like it is, you talk out of your shithole.

So......... you drive a moped? We are bad because we want to drive? Change your name to "Spoonfed"

[spookyturtle 9,466]

No no my son. Sensible ppl quit spending when they realize the PARTY is over. This thing about getting ppl to spend is bullshite! Ppl wil never return to spending like it was before.

Of course they will. Two oil embargos didn't stop people from buying gas guzzlers and driving a lot. $150 a barrel oil and a faltering economy finally slowed things down. If gas stayed at $2 gal and the economy recovers, what do you think will happen?

Your bein taught a lesson and dont even realize it. Hint Hint, Mr. ACORN is the teacher FOOL!

I've lived thru the two oil embargos in the 70's. People didn't learn their lesson until gas hit $4 gal. If it went down to $2, they'd drive as they always have. I've learned plenty of lessons in life. I'm not a young punk like you. I tell it like it is, you talk out of your shithole.

So......... you drive a moped? We are bad because we want to drive? Change your name to "Spoonfed"

No oh wise one, read what you wrote again. You said people were not going to spend money like they once did. I used gas as an example. Your lack of logic, reasoning and brains never ceases to amaze me.

[john & jean 37]

When we payed four dollars a gallon, everyone had work. The price goes down and jobs go away....

I would rather pay four dollars a gallon

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

When we payed four dollars a gallon, everyone had work. The price goes down and jobs go away....

I would rather pay four dollars a gallon

Edited September 18, 2009 by Mr. Big Dog

[NickD 203]

Stimulus worked for me, use all that money to offset part of our increased property, sales, fuel, and state income taxes.

[alienlovechild 75]

Nothing will sway the Obama believers. None of them read the article but went through their usual litany of excuses. To them, Obama has somehow "saved" America and no statistics or analysis will ever convince them otherwise. For them, the only thing that counts is a national healthcare plan and to hell with everything else.