Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'

[*Robert* 2]

Another way to put it is: Retired veterans receive health care as a government benefit, not necessarily a "government run" health care, unless you consider that it is government employees providing the service.

A "government run" health care program would be using civilian doctors and civilian hospitals, which would cost a heck of a lot more, since they don't get paid the same low wages of government employees.

Let's see.... go to a VA hospital, or go to a civilian hospital?!!!

Edited September 18, 2009 by *Robert*

[luckytxn 2,264]

Charles thanks for your service. Civilians could never understand why there is this benefit. Every year in the military takes a toll on ones body that is irreversible and that is just in peacetime. Then many go to war and the mental and physical toll is magnified. My only quarrel with this benefit is that a servicemember should be able to go to any hospital or clinic and not just the VA ones to get care. My congressman thinks the same. (Ron Paul)

[*Robert* 2]

Charles thanks for your service. Civilians could never understand why there is this benefit. Every year in the military takes a toll on ones body that is irreversible and that is just in peacetime. Then many go to war and the mental and physical toll is magnified. My only quarrel with this benefit is that a servicemember should be able to go to any hospital or clinic and not just the VA ones to get care. My congressman thinks the same. (Ron Paul)

And that is the point I'm trying to make above. TriCare allows you to go to a military or VA hospital, and only on rare occasions go to a "civilian" hospital.

Let's just sat that the doctors from Johns Hopkins aren't flocking to VA hospitals or to get commisioned in the military.

[*Robert* 2]

To get a little back on topic, Pike said that there are humanitarians overseas in dangerous situations. My question to that is... why the hell are they overseas when there are plenty of people in need in our own country?!!!

At least Carter, after getting out of office, finally found something he was good at, and that was Habitat for Humanity. He wasn't overseas building houses, but building them HERE, in the USA!

As for his job as a president, history has already weighed in on that, and there's not much to say, which goes to the fact that he's trying to get back into the lime light with lame comments such as saying Wilson's comment was "based on racism". Give me a break! He needs to go back to building homes and letting Roz be in charge!

[nowhereman 1]

Charles thanks for your service. Civilians could never understand why there is this benefit. Every year in the military takes a toll on ones body that is irreversible and that is just in peacetime. Then many go to war and the mental and physical toll is magnified. My only quarrel with this benefit is that a servicemember should be able to go to any hospital or clinic and not just the VA ones to get care. My congressman thinks the same. (Ron Paul)

I think you are somewhat misinformed... I have over 20 years in the Army & I don't think I have ever gone to a VA hospital or clinic. Depending on where I was stationed sometimes I did have to go to on post for care but more often than not my healthcare provider was a private doctor.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The claim that the House health care bill as it stood at the time Wilson challenged Obama prevented illegals from participating in the plan is a misunderstanding. It did not. While it contained language saying they were not allowed the benefit, there were no provisions for verification of citizenship or any enforcement provisions outlined. In fact, attempts by Republicans to add such measures had all been blocked by Democrats.

The omission was acknowledged after Wilson's outburst by the ** leadership and the White House. Prior to this correction, not a peep in opposition to any barrier to illegals was heard. After the announcement that enforcement will be added, the whining started, Rep. Guiterrez leading the charge.

This is a game lawmakers play. They add toothless language to bills with no enforcement or funding so they can claim they are doing something that won't actually come to pass. The public is lulled into a false sense of security and they placate their base. Don't be fooled.

VW you started out so well with this one... the first paragraph is spot on. However the fact is Wilson's "you lie" outburst is the actual lie, since Obama didn't lie. I do however agree with you that enforcement measures suck & a percentage of illegal immigrants slip through the cracks.

On a completely different note Charles' comment about Tri-Care and 20 yrs was misunderstood & the reaction was an over-reaction IMO.

Barry has been a legislator long enough to know that without enforcement, no law is worth the paper it's written on. If he didn't know there was no enforcement in the bill to bar illegals, then he's a worst president than I think he is. If he did know, then he outright lied about illegals being kept out of the public option. I believe he knew there was no enforcement, since he was before Congress to talk about what was in the bill.

However, Barry not only lied about keeping illegals out of the public option, he also has repeated a lie in that speech and several others. A favorite anecdote he has told may crowds is the "sad" story about a man named Otto Raddatz, who, according to Barry, died after being denied treatment for cancer after being dropped by his insurance company.

Only, that's not happened to Mr. Raddatz. He not only had his insurance reinstated a few weeks after being dropped, but he went on to have the treatment, then lived another four years. Now, I don't know about you, but I expect better due diligence from what has been touted as a top notch White House staff. We all know that this POTUS mostly just read TOTUS, so he may not even be aware he is spreading a falsehood. Yet, the man is the chief executive of the nation. Would it be too much to expect him not to repeat falsehoods that are easily fact checked?

Or, maybe it's just habot. In one of his autobiographies, he describes how he met his wife at a law firm were they both worked. That has been the story for years. But, while speaking before a graduation class, he related the story in a whole new scenario. In this version, he and Michelle met at school, in class?????? Doesn't he know how they met? Doesn't he know people notice such things?

[rebeccajo 14]

p.s I've not had any problems with Tricare (Prime). Other's experience may or may not be different....It was tough in the beginning to find a PCM out here that took it-but after that....eh...not too bad.

We have the same provider problem in our agency - there are only three clinicians and one doctor on our staff that participate in the Tri-Care network. I don't know whether Tri-Care is one of 'those' companies that only entertain credentials on invitation or if it's a case of fewer providers in areas with a smaller 'service person' population.

is this all .. or only a few?

I'll read forward to see if this is answered ... if not answered ... why so few?

I said I'm not sure why there are so few in our clinic. It might be that Tri-Care won't just credential the provider at the provider's request - in other words they may invite providers. Some insurance companies do that - they invite doctors on panel if they feel there is a need. Other insurance companies will consider credentials if you just send in the application.

It also might be that we (the agency) simply haven't bothered because we don't have more Tri-Care enrollees coming through our doors.

Edited September 18, 2009 by rebeccajo

[rebeccajo 14]

Well, gee maybe as a 'swabbies daughter' ( your words) you would understand alittle more of what is asked of military personnel and the toll it takes.

RJ-I could say well, gee maybe you should get a 'regular' job where 'people aren't crying in the hallways or teenagers arn't hanging themselves on vending machines or you have to line up the furniture to avoid being boxed in by the mentally ill'....

--I for one will say that EVERY military member active, retired or whatever has paid for and earned what they receive after duty; and no one should be made to feel like they are getting more than they deserve or that it is somehow a handout to be begrudged and envied. Go to the VA Hospital-envy those veterans 'availing themselves' of VA care or Tricare in the circumstances of no VA hospital.

You don't have to be gung ho about the military to acknowledge the sacrifices made by those folks. Do people that have not been in the Military get Military Tricare...No. Is that fair? YES! It's a commitment this country has made to it's servicemen and women and it's a promise they will follow through on. They created the military healthcare system for vets precisely for that. However; they are eroding away at it bit by bit.

I was told "Thank you from a grateful nation ' whilst I received my flag and letter from the prez while in hospital no less.....But after the photo op was over and after people were cheering for me it would seem that some underneath the 'support' for the military and it's vets 'begrudge' or envy what vets get.

I say to those people that believe they should get what vets get ( 'availed' to military doctors)---go do what the vets have done.

Please don't use patriotism, flag waving, or your pride in having served your country as some sort of "defense" into this discussion. There's absolutely no need to do that because there is no attack on my part on any of those things.

You, Charles and others have served this nation in the military and there are certain perks you have been granted because of that. Did I not say earlier I have no problem with that?

Now to having chosen a different path and "gotten a regular job" like the rest of us - had you done that you would be in the same situation as the rest of us working stiffs. You would be beholden to your an employer for whatever health care plan they select for you. You would have to take health care into account if you wanted to leave a job. You would have to worry about health insurance should you be unemployed.

There's no point in sitting here and discussing whether or not you 'deserve' your Tri-Care coverage because that's not what got me into this discussion in the first place. It is annoying to me though to see someone have this coverage and constantly complain about it. IMO it is better than what people in my situation have - which is nothing. But then I guess Americans (civilian or otherwise) are like that - they like to complain and they like to grumble and they like to forget about their blessings, earned or otherwise.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

To get a little back on topic, Pike said that there are humanitarians overseas in dangerous situations. My question to that is... why the hell are they overseas when there are plenty of people in need in our own country?!!!

At least Carter, after getting out of office, finally found something he was good at, and that was Habitat for Humanity. He wasn't overseas building houses, but building them HERE, in the USA!

As for his job as a president, history has already weighed in on that, and there's not much to say, which goes to the fact that he's trying to get back into the lime light with lame comments such as saying Wilson's comment was "based on racism". Give me a break! He needs to go back to building homes and letting Roz be in charge!

Perhaps you can extend the same reasoning to the armed forces and how the US government's military budget continues to exceed the total GDP of entire countries.

How can there not be enough money for education, healthcare or mass transit when we spend in excess of $600 billion a year on wars of questionable benefit and R&D projects of dubious value?

[HAL 9000 96]

Didn't ignore your negative experiences... Charles... I know exactly what you are saying.

Current practitioners (last 10 years) is altogether something VERY different.

If there is a problem with the way its administered... that's another topic.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

I agree with all the comments so far, but am concerned that the more people (especially like a former President) throw out the "race card", the more polarized the country will become over race.

I think you're right...Carter should have chosen his wording more carefully.

Yes he should have used "code-words" like most libs do.

[Peikko 1,575]

Gee, this thread didn't get any better did it?

I am so glad the military folks can see beyond the noses on their faces, very encouraging.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

Well, gee maybe as a 'swabbies daughter' ( your words) you would understand alittle more of what is asked of military personnel and the toll it takes.

RJ-I could say well, gee maybe you should get a 'regular' job where 'people aren't crying in the hallways or teenagers arn't hanging themselves on vending machines or you have to line up the furniture to avoid being boxed in by the mentally ill'....

--I for one will say that EVERY military member active, retired or whatever has paid for and earned what they receive after duty; and no one should be made to feel like they are getting more than they deserve or that it is somehow a handout to be begrudged and envied. Go to the VA Hospital-envy those veterans 'availing themselves' of VA care or Tricare in the circumstances of no VA hospital.

You don't have to be gung ho about the military to acknowledge the sacrifices made by those folks. Do people that have not been in the Military get Military Tricare...No. Is that fair? YES! It's a commitment this country has made to it's servicemen and women and it's a promise they will follow through on. They created the military healthcare system for vets precisely for that. However; they are eroding away at it bit by bit.

I was told "Thank you from a grateful nation ' whilst I received my flag and letter from the prez while in hospital no less.....But after the photo op was over and after people were cheering for me it would seem that some underneath the 'support' for the military and it's vets 'begrudge' or envy what vets get.

I say to those people that believe they should get what vets get ( 'availed' to military doctors)---go do what the vets have done.

Please don't use patriotism, flag waving, or your pride in having served your country as some sort of "defense" into this discussion. There's absolutely no need to do that because there is no attack on my part on any of those things.

You, Charles and others have served this nation in the military and there are certain perks you have been granted because of that. Did I not say earlier I have no problem with that?

Now to having chosen a different path and "gotten a regular job" like the rest of us - had you done that you would be in the same situation as the rest of us working stiffs. You would be beholden to your an employer for whatever health care plan they select for you. You would have to take health care into account if you wanted to leave a job. You would have to worry about health insurance should you be unemployed.

There's no point in sitting here and discussing whether or not you 'deserve' your Tri-Care coverage because that's not what got me into this discussion in the first place. It is annoying to me though to see someone have this coverage and constantly complain about it. IMO it is better than what people in my situation have - which is nothing. But then I guess Americans (civilian or otherwise) are like that - they like to complain and they like to grumble and they like to forget about their blessings, earned or otherwise.

Hence all the complaining in this post.

Gee, this thread didn't get any better did it?

I am so glad the military folks can see beyond the noses on their faces, very encouraging.

So are you retracting your contempt for them?

[Peikko 1,575]

Well, gee maybe as a 'swabbies daughter' ( your words) you would understand alittle more of what is asked of military personnel and the toll it takes.

RJ-I could say well, gee maybe you should get a 'regular' job where 'people aren't crying in the hallways or teenagers arn't hanging themselves on vending machines or you have to line up the furniture to avoid being boxed in by the mentally ill'....

--I for one will say that EVERY military member active, retired or whatever has paid for and earned what they receive after duty; and no one should be made to feel like they are getting more than they deserve or that it is somehow a handout to be begrudged and envied. Go to the VA Hospital-envy those veterans 'availing themselves' of VA care or Tricare in the circumstances of no VA hospital.

You don't have to be gung ho about the military to acknowledge the sacrifices made by those folks. Do people that have not been in the Military get Military Tricare...No. Is that fair? YES! It's a commitment this country has made to it's servicemen and women and it's a promise they will follow through on. They created the military healthcare system for vets precisely for that. However; they are eroding away at it bit by bit.

I was told "Thank you from a grateful nation ' whilst I received my flag and letter from the prez while in hospital no less.....But after the photo op was over and after people were cheering for me it would seem that some underneath the 'support' for the military and it's vets 'begrudge' or envy what vets get.

I say to those people that believe they should get what vets get ( 'availed' to military doctors)---go do what the vets have done.

Please don't use patriotism, flag waving, or your pride in having served your country as some sort of "defense" into this discussion. There's absolutely no need to do that because there is no attack on my part on any of those things.

You, Charles and others have served this nation in the military and there are certain perks you have been granted because of that. Did I not say earlier I have no problem with that?

Now to having chosen a different path and "gotten a regular job" like the rest of us - had you done that you would be in the same situation as the rest of us working stiffs. You would be beholden to your an employer for whatever health care plan they select for you. You would have to take health care into account if you wanted to leave a job. You would have to worry about health insurance should you be unemployed.

There's no point in sitting here and discussing whether or not you 'deserve' your Tri-Care coverage because that's not what got me into this discussion in the first place. It is annoying to me though to see someone have this coverage and constantly complain about it. IMO it is better than what people in my situation have - which is nothing. But then I guess Americans (civilian or otherwise) are like that - they like to complain and they like to grumble and they like to forget about their blessings, earned or otherwise.

Hence all the complaining in this post.

Gee, this thread didn't get any better did it?

I am so glad the military folks can see beyond the noses on their faces, very encouraging.

So are you retracting your contempt for them?

You can take it any way you like, you always do.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I have to say Joe, that as far as anyone expressing contempt or emotionally loaded language - you seem to be a front runner..