Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Well, gee.

Maybe you should have had a regular job then!

yeah, excuse me for reading about jfk when i was a kid and he said something to the effect of "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

i shoulda sat around and waited for a handout.

Charles is a disenchanted Liberal? It's all making sense now.

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

Well, gee.

Maybe you should have had a regular job then!

yeah, excuse me for reading about jfk when i was a kid and he said something to the effect of "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

i shoulda sat around and waited for a handout.

Charles is a disenchanted Liberal? It's all making sense now.

i was a left wing liberal when i was 18. then i grew up.

[simpson_121919 0]

Well, gee.

Maybe you should have had a regular job then!

yeah, excuse me for reading about jfk when i was a kid and he said something to the effect of "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

i shoulda sat around and waited for a handout.

Charles is a disenchanted Liberal? It's all making sense now.

i was a left wing liberal when i was 18. then i grew up.

Winston Churchill - “ Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains.”

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Well, gee.

Maybe you should have had a regular job then!

yeah, excuse me for reading about jfk when i was a kid and he said something to the effect of "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

i shoulda sat around and waited for a handout.

Charles is a disenchanted Liberal? It's all making sense now.

i was a left wing liberal when i was 18. then i grew up.

You were 5'5" then and how tall are you now?

[luckytxn 2,264]

doesn't look all bad to me. At least the military MDs I know are excellent practitioners. I think any public service practitioners would seriously look to use an efficiency model if a public option were to use public system practitioners. I doubt that even if we did see a public option that the practitioners or most of the provider staff would be actual government employees and I'd not expect to see a whole lot of redundancy in the system... but it still looks like its too early to tell because people are playing politics over people's health.

doesn't look all bad? military md's are excellent practitioners?

maybe you could tell that to my dad, were he still alive. an "excellent" navy doc cost him one of his testicles in the early 60's from a wrong diagnosis. and then there was that one navy doc that didn't read about my mom's drug allergies on her chart and almost killed her with a drug reaction when she was in the hospital in the late 70's.

some of those "excellent" docs treated me while i was a military dependant, while i was on active duty, and since i've been retired. i think i've been to a military doctor about 15 times in the past 45 years. here's the real winners for you, as the ones i don't mention were minor ear infections:

- infected ingrown toenail when i was about 17 ('79-'80). docs didn't give me any antibiotics for it, just instructions to wash it and blah blah blah. took almost 6 months for it to heal.

- bitten by a rattlesnake labor day '84 on the tip of my finger. no painkiller administered, just sprayed with compressed air to numb it before they cut the tip of my finger open so it could swell.

- another ingrown toenail somewhere about '85, doc removed the toenail without realizing that all of the noise i was making meant the painkiller he gave me didn't work. i was sent home for the day due to being white as a sheet.

- from surgery to repair a hernia, one of the stitches became infected. took over 24 hours to get an appointment to see a military doctor, by then i'd had enough pain and lanced the area and drained it myself.

- all just a small example of why i complain about government health care!

add onto that the run around nessa gets. the run around i get when i try to get treated. the blatant inefficiency i see every time i'm there. oh btw, as a retiree i'm at the bottom of the list for treatment. nessa and baby boy have priority over me as they'e dependants.

what did all of this cost, you asked? how about 20 years of my life. my youth. my innocence. one divorce while in a combat zone. over 10 years assigned overseas. very little chance to see family obviously during that 10 years. eventual loss of communication with most friends from high school. no long term friends due to frequent moving around. no guarantees you'll be assigned anywhere close to your family when you do return stateside. no chance to grow roots anywhere due to frequent transfers and very little incentive to buy a house as one is never assured of returning to the same place. the long hours. the low pay. the heat. the cold. the insects/vermin/snakes etc that is a constant hazard while in the field. the rain. my bad knees. my bad back. my loss of hearing.

and from my time in what is now called the first gulf war - the constant threat of hostile fire. of friendly fire. of land mines. of chemical and biological weapons use. being forced to take a non-fda approved vaccine (anthrax). being exposed to god knows what environmental issues from the burning oil wells over there that turned noon into dusk, along with whatever else the government hasn't told us about du ammo and so on.

yeah, just a walk in the park for this benefit. and now so many want the same thing without paying any of the costs. and you wonder why i say so many have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement.

top off all of the above with congress talking about raising my yearly payment to such a level that it will eat up about half my post tax retirement pay. the same yearly payment that will pretty much eat up any money nessa would get from my retirement pay as i pay into the survivor benefit plan (sbp - like an insurance policy, she'd get 55% of it under the sbp plan) so she'd have that after i'm gone.

now you tell me if my 20 years of service was all worth it and why you deserve something similar at about the same cost i'll pay should congress have their way, without you putting in the sweat and tears i did.

I remember very few good medics in the military. The standard joke was they were there for a reason as they could never make it in the private sector.

[natty bumppo 297]

p.s I've not had any problems with Tricare (Prime). Other's experience may or may not be different....It was tough in the beginning to find a PCM out here that took it-but after that....eh...not too bad.

We have the same provider problem in our agency - there are only three clinicians and one doctor on our staff that participate in the Tri-Care network. I don't know whether Tri-Care is one of 'those' companies that only entertain credentials on invitation or if it's a case of fewer providers in areas with a smaller 'service person' population.

is this all .. or only a few?

I'll read forward to see if this is answered ... if not answered ... why so few?

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

Well, gee.

Maybe you should have had a regular job then!

yeah, excuse me for reading about jfk when i was a kid and he said something to the effect of "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

i shoulda sat around and waited for a handout.

Charles is a disenchanted Liberal? It's all making sense now.

i was a left wing liberal when i was 18. then i grew up.

You were 5'5" then and how tall are you now?

when did one's height have anything to do with their political leanings?

[nowhereman 1]

The claim that the House health care bill as it stood at the time Wilson challenged Obama prevented illegals from participating in the plan is a misunderstanding. It did not. While it contained language saying they were not allowed the benefit, there were no provisions for verification of citizenship or any enforcement provisions outlined. In fact, attempts by Republicans to add such measures had all been blocked by Democrats.

The omission was acknowledged after Wilson's outburst by the ** leadership and the White House. Prior to this correction, not a peep in opposition to any barrier to illegals was heard. After the announcement that enforcement will be added, the whining started, Rep. Guiterrez leading the charge.

This is a game lawmakers play. They add toothless language to bills with no enforcement or funding so they can claim they are doing something that won't actually come to pass. The public is lulled into a false sense of security and they placate their base. Don't be fooled.

VW you started out so well with this one... the first paragraph is spot on. However the fact is Wilson's "you lie" outburst is the actual lie, since Obama didn't lie. I do however agree with you that enforcement measures suck & a percentage of illegal immigrants slip through the cracks.

On a completely different note Charles' comment about Tri-Care and 20 yrs was misunderstood & the reaction was an over-reaction IMO.

[natty bumppo 297]

- all just a small example of why i complain about government health care!

add onto that the run around nessa gets. the run around i get when i try to get treated. the blatant inefficiency i see every time i'm there. oh btw, as a retiree i'm at the bottom of the list for treatment. nessa and baby boy have priority over me as they'e dependants.

what did all of this cost, you asked? how about 20 years of my life. my youth. my innocence. one divorce while in a combat zone. over 10 years assigned overseas. very little chance to see family obviously during that 10 years. eventual loss of communication with most friends from high school. no long term friends due to frequent moving around. no guarantees you'll be assigned anywhere close to your family when you do return stateside. no chance to grow roots anywhere due to frequent transfers and very little incentive to buy a house as one is never assured of returning to the same place. the long hours. the low pay. the heat. the cold. the insects/vermin/snakes etc that is a constant hazard while in the field. the rain. my bad knees. my bad back. my loss of hearing.

and from my time in what is now called the first gulf war - the constant threat of hostile fire. of friendly fire. of land mines. of chemical and biological weapons use. being forced to take a non-fda approved vaccine (anthrax). being exposed to god knows what environmental issues from the burning oil wells over there that turned noon into dusk, along with whatever else the government hasn't told us about du ammo and so on.

yeah, just a walk in the park for this benefit. and now so many want the same thing without paying any of the costs. and you wonder why i say so many have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement.

top off all of the above with congress talking about raising my yearly payment to such a level that it will eat up about half my post tax retirement pay. the same yearly payment that will pretty much eat up any money nessa would get from my retirement pay as i pay into the survivor benefit plan (sbp - like an insurance policy, she'd get 55% of it under the sbp plan) so she'd have that after i'm gone.

now you tell me if my 20 years of service was all worth it and why you deserve something similar at about the same cost i'll pay should congress have their way, without you putting in the sweat and tears i did.

charles here is my .02 ¢ ...

lost my adopted father to military health care. he was a marine from the old corp with extensive combat experience and a disability due serving in the PTO.

my sister was able to keep her left leg because the on call ER doctor was a retired military MD with experience in treating combat wounds (this was verified by the hospital ... my sister was lucky he was on call that day)

I have no problem with my tax $ supporting you and your family. thank you for your service.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Natty Bumppo

[*Robert* 2]

Steven, I realize that you have a fleeting aquaintance with the truth and twist it to benefit your view, so I understand why you stretched my position on government health care for military families into a general statement that I have granted value to government health care.

You don't speak for me. I am steadfast in my position that Health care on the taxpayers dime for all is a bad idea and beyond the government's purview. The goverment owes it's military,but it doesn't owe everyone. Health care on the dole is not a human right or an entitlement for any able bodied Tom, ####### or Harriet who thinks they deserve it. The idea that thegovernment owes you just because you exist or make bad choices is an anathema to a thriving, healthy society that relies on intiative, independence and self-reliance. Those traits will soon die out in a nanny state where people look to government instead of themselves for what they need. I won't support policies that encouage that kind of dependance. Earn what you get. My views on this haven't changed.

Tri Care isn't government health care.

It's the Defense Department contracting with insurance companies. It's the government contracting with the private sector.

complete bs. it is government health care - you need to read up on tricare prime, the one you are probably only familiar with is tricare standard. nessa and i both go to ft leavenworth and are seen there first. only if they cannot treat us, then are we referred off base (or possibly to another military base).

So kind of like a 'public' option with private options.

if you want to call it that, feel free.

let's review how much of a non-government health care option it is.

- i go to the id card section, where a government employee (gs) verifies my eligibility, nessa's, and our baby boy's.

- i go to the hospital, where another government employee (gs) enters the data into the tricare database and i fill out the forms for my payment to be paid from my military retirement.

- the payment is withdrawn from my military retirement by the military.

- nessa, baby boy, myself - we all see military doctors first. i wonder if they are part of the government?

yup, sounds like the government has nothing to do with it at all.

Charles, that is what is called government "oversight", not the same as government "run". It is contractors that run the actual program, which is much better in my mind, than the actual government, however as you know, contractors cost more money than if they were actual government employees.

[tmma 467]

doesn't look all bad to me. At least the military MDs I know are excellent practitioners. I think any public service practitioners would seriously look to use an efficiency model if a public option were to use public system practitioners. I doubt that even if we did see a public option that the practitioners or most of the provider staff would be actual government employees and I'd not expect to see a whole lot of redundancy in the system... but it still looks like its too early to tell because people are playing politics over people's health.

doesn't look all bad? military md's are excellent practitioners?

maybe you could tell that to my dad, were he still alive. an "excellent" navy doc cost him one of his testicles in the early 60's from a wrong diagnosis. and then there was that one navy doc that didn't read about my mom's drug allergies on her chart and almost killed her with a drug reaction when she was in the hospital in the late 70's.

some of those "excellent" docs treated me while i was a military dependant, while i was on active duty, and since i've been retired. i think i've been to a military doctor about 15 times in the past 45 years. here's the real winners for you, as the ones i don't mention were minor ear infections:

- infected ingrown toenail when i was about 17 ('79-'80). docs didn't give me any antibiotics for it, just instructions to wash it and blah blah blah. took almost 6 months for it to heal.

- bitten by a rattlesnake labor day '84 on the tip of my finger. no painkiller administered, just sprayed with compressed air to numb it before they cut the tip of my finger open so it could swell.

- another ingrown toenail somewhere about '85, doc removed the toenail without realizing that all of the noise i was making meant the painkiller he gave me didn't work. i was sent home for the day due to being white as a sheet.

- from surgery to repair a hernia, one of the stitches became infected. took over 24 hours to get an appointment to see a military doctor, by then i'd had enough pain and lanced the area and drained it myself.

- all just a small example of why i complain about government health care!

add onto that the run around nessa gets. the run around i get when i try to get treated. the blatant inefficiency i see every time i'm there. oh btw, as a retiree i'm at the bottom of the list for treatment. nessa and baby boy have priority over me as they'e dependants.

what did all of this cost, you asked? how about 20 years of my life. my youth. my innocence. one divorce while in a combat zone. over 10 years assigned overseas. very little chance to see family obviously during that 10 years. eventual loss of communication with most friends from high school. no long term friends due to frequent moving around. no guarantees you'll be assigned anywhere close to your family when you do return stateside. no chance to grow roots anywhere due to frequent transfers and very little incentive to buy a house as one is never assured of returning to the same place. the long hours. the low pay. the heat. the cold. the insects/vermin/snakes etc that is a constant hazard while in the field. the rain. my bad knees. my bad back. my loss of hearing.

and from my time in what is now called the first gulf war - the constant threat of hostile fire. of friendly fire. of land mines. of chemical and biological weapons use. being forced to take a non-fda approved vaccine (anthrax). being exposed to god knows what environmental issues from the burning oil wells over there that turned noon into dusk, along with whatever else the government hasn't told us about du ammo and so on.

yeah, just a walk in the park for this benefit. and now so many want the same thing without paying any of the costs. and you wonder why i say so many have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement.

top off all of the above with congress talking about raising my yearly payment to such a level that it will eat up about half my post tax retirement pay. the same yearly payment that will pretty much eat up any money nessa would get from my retirement pay as i pay into the survivor benefit plan (sbp - like an insurance policy, she'd get 55% of it under the sbp plan) so she'd have that after i'm gone.

now you tell me if my 20 years of service was all worth it and why you deserve something similar at about the same cost i'll pay should congress have their way, without you putting in the sweat and tears i did.

Well, gee.

Maybe you should have had a regular job then!

Well, gee maybe as a 'swabbies daughter' ( your words) you would understand alittle more of what is asked of military personnel and the toll it takes.

RJ-I could say well, gee maybe you should get a 'regular' job where 'people aren't crying in the hallways or teenagers arn't hanging themselves on vending machines or you have to line up the furniture to avoid being boxed in by the mentally ill'....

--I for one will say that EVERY military member active, retired or whatever has paid for and earned what they receive after duty; and no one should be made to feel like they are getting more than they deserve or that it is somehow a handout to be begrudged and envied. Go to the VA Hospital-envy those veterans 'availing themselves' of VA care or Tricare in the circumstances of no VA hospital.

You don't have to be gung ho about the military to acknowledge the sacrifices made by those folks. Do people that have not been in the Military get Military Tricare...No. Is that fair? YES! It's a commitment this country has made to it's servicemen and women and it's a promise they will follow through on. They created the military healthcare system for vets precisely for that. However; they are eroding away at it bit by bit.

I was told "Thank you from a grateful nation ' whilst I received my flag and letter from the prez while in hospital no less.....But after the photo op was over and after people were cheering for me it would seem that some underneath the 'support' for the military and it's vets 'begrudge' or envy what vets get.

I say to those people that believe they should get what vets get ( 'availed' to military doctors)---go do what the vets have done.

[*Robert* 2]

You know RJ is on to something here. AND what the F _ _ _! I am a taxpayer why shouldn't I get free healthcare just like the military of USA does???? I mean without me paying all these taxes there is no military! Totally pisses me off!

Let's make one thing PERFECTLY CLEAR here... US military members PAY TAXES TOO!!!

Not to mention, are some of the lowest paid members of society. If you were to compare military members with their civilian counterparts, they are WAY UNDERPAID!!! You think that when you join the military you make enormous amounts of money?!!! NO WAY!!! That's why many military members, with families, actually qualify for food stamps. NOW LETS BE REAL HERE!!!

You people amaze me with your distain for military members who sacrafice their lives for this country, yet some people think they don't deserve a few benefits!!!!

Sheesh!!!

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

Charles, that is what is called government "oversight", not the same as government "run". It is contractors that run the actual program, which is much better in my mind, than the actual government, however as you know, contractors cost more money than if they were actual government employees.

the people at the military clinic on fort leavenworth aren't contractors. they are gs or military.

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

You know RJ is on to something here. AND what the F _ _ _! I am a taxpayer why shouldn't I get free healthcare just like the military of USA does???? I mean without me paying all these taxes there is no military! Totally pisses me off!

Let's make one thing PERFECTLY CLEAR here... US military members PAY TAXES TOO!!!

Not to mention, are some of the lowest paid members of society. If you were to compare military members with their civilian counterparts, they are WAY UNDERPAID!!! You think that when you join the military you make enormous amounts of money?!!! NO WAY!!! That's why many military members, with families, actually qualify for food stamps. NOW LETS BE REAL HERE!!!

You people amaze me with your distain for military members who sacrafice their lives for this country, yet some people think they don't deserve a few benefits!!!!

Sheesh!!!

not to mention when you figure in everything say the average e-5 makes in a month versus the hours he's working, he's making less than minimum wage. yet they do it out of a sense of duty and pride. something that a few don't understand.

[*Robert* 2]

Charles, that is what is called government "oversight", not the same as government "run". It is contractors that run the actual program, which is much better in my mind, than the actual government, however as you know, contractors cost more money than if they were actual government employees.

the people at the military clinic on fort leavenworth aren't contractors. they are gs or military.

Yes, the actual people in the clinic, but what about the ones running the program?

I know what you're saying, but I still wouldn't say it is "government health care" in the terms being proposed by the current administration, which is why MC, RJ and others are trying to corner you into saying you are already recieivng "government health care" and how great it is. We are talking apples and oranges here.