Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'

[rebeccajo 14]

*jumps back in* Sorry. Veteran hot button pressed.

How do you quantify the answer in 'what do you pay for Military TriCare?' . It should be 'What HAVE you PAID for Military TriCare?' IMO-the premium was paid at the end of AD service, with an honorable discharge. But that's me; and Veteran's and defending their entitlements and making sure that the commitment made to them upon enlistment by the nation is followed through with.

IMO-Charles and countless others ( myself included) have paid the premium. Even though I pay $$$ ( it doesn't matter how many dollars-take a look at my scars and tell me how much they are worth.....) for Prime-I don't mind. It's for my son.

That's how I view the whole 'military tricare'.

Asking what a veteran is paying now vs. what he/she might be paying in the event of a future increase is an interesting concept relative to what the rest of us are paying, don't you think?

Your contention is you should be receiving a 'discount' because of past service. I'm not disagreeing with that point.

Ask what you want of course but I said nothing of discounts. All I am saying is that the premium for MILITARY Tricare is expressed as much more than dollars and cents...IMO of course.

You gave something of value to the US government - your service. You consider that as part of the premium you have paid for your future health care.

Is there something about that which does not imply a 'discount' off the standard charges other persons would pay?

I think that's very relative to the discussion. No one here is implying you or any other service person should not receive some recompense for your service. What is that recompense compared to "traditional premiums" the rest of us pay?

If the rest of us have to keep paying more and more and more and more for health cover, should our service persons also be expected to bear some of that cost?

[tmma 467]

*jumps back in* Sorry. Veteran hot button pressed.

How do you quantify the answer in 'what do you pay for Military TriCare?' . It should be 'What HAVE you PAID for Military TriCare?' IMO-the premium was paid at the end of AD service, with an honorable discharge. But that's me; and Veteran's and defending their entitlements and making sure that the commitment made to them upon enlistment by the nation is followed through with.

IMO-Charles and countless others ( myself included) have paid the premium. Even though I pay $ ( it doesn't matter how many dollars-take a look at my scars and tell me how much they are worth.....) for Prime-I don't mind. It's for my son.

That's how I view the whole 'military tricare'.

But that's how most people view entitlements - that they've paid into in some form or another. If we have a public option, it will by funded through taxes of some sort, just as Social Security and Medicare are funded. It's just that many opponents of a public option are against the idea that some may get more than what they paid into it....but that's the nature of all insurance.

I think we are in kind of agreement.... Yes, if you have paid in either in hard cash or commitment to a cause that the promise is made of Tricare- or whatever- at the end is made--then the expectation is that you should be able to claim it. And you should. That's the 'promise' or commitment'.

But what about LPRs ? They haven't paid in...Where will they stand? What about illegals? No hospital is going to turn someone away-but who will pay?

I beg your pardon. My wife currently pays federal taxes and contributes to Medicare and Social Security as an LPR. Anyone, including illegals, who are on a company payroll, pay taxes unless they are paid under the table. But for those not paying into the system through payroll - their tab is picked up by you and me either way - through higher premiums or through taxes. The argument then isn't about whether we should pay for them, but which method is cheaper - letting emergency rooms be the place for care or insuring them. Our current system is costing us considerably more.

Ok-----My husband does too. I meant no insult. What I was getting at is that your wife and Mark and countless others have to pay into those taxes for years before they are allowed to see any kind of benefit---If the govt started a program---would they state the same restriction...? That was my point...No insult meant at all.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

*jumps back in* Sorry. Veteran hot button pressed.

How do you quantify the answer in 'what do you pay for Military TriCare?' . It should be 'What HAVE you PAID for Military TriCare?' IMO-the premium was paid at the end of AD service, with an honorable discharge. But that's me; and Veteran's and defending their entitlements and making sure that the commitment made to them upon enlistment by the nation is followed through with.

IMO-Charles and countless others ( myself included) have paid the premium. Even though I pay $ ( it doesn't matter how many dollars-take a look at my scars and tell me how much they are worth.....) for Prime-I don't mind. It's for my son.

That's how I view the whole 'military tricare'.

But that's how most people view entitlements - that they've paid into in some form or another. If we have a public option, it will by funded through taxes of some sort, just as Social Security and Medicare are funded. It's just that many opponents of a public option are against the idea that some may get more than what they paid into it....but that's the nature of all insurance.

I think we are in kind of agreement.... Yes, if you have paid in either in hard cash or commitment to a cause that the promise is made of Tricare- or whatever- at the end is made--then the expectation is that you should be able to claim it. And you should. That's the 'promise' or commitment'.

But what about LPRs ? They haven't paid in...Where will they stand? What about illegals? No hospital is going to turn someone away-but who will pay?

I beg your pardon. My wife currently pays federal taxes and contributes to Medicare and Social Security as an LPR. Anyone, including illegals, who are on a company payroll, pay taxes unless they are paid under the table. But for those not paying into the system through payroll - their tab is picked up by you and me either way - through higher premiums or through taxes. The argument then isn't about whether we should pay for them, but which method is cheaper - letting emergency rooms be the place for care or insuring them. Our current system is costing us considerably more.

Ok-----My husband does too. I meant no insult. What I was getting at is that your wife and Mark and countless others have to pay into those taxes for years before they are allowed to see any kind of benefit---If the govt started a program---would they state the same restriction...? That was my point...No insult meant at all.

I could be wrong, but I think within the same number of years of contributing to SS, you are eligible as an LPR as you would be when first start contributing. If there is some discrepancy between wait times of USC and LPR's, I'm not aware of it.

[rebeccajo 14]

Ok-----My husband does too. I meant no insult. What I was getting at is that your wife and Mark and countless others have to pay into those taxes for years before they are allowed to see any kind of benefit---If the govt started a program---would they state the same restriction...? That was my point...No insult meant at all.

Everybody has to work 40 quarters before they can draw Social Security benefit. Not just immigrants. And everybody has to reach a certain age before they are Medicare eligible.

Law abiding taxpayers should be allowed to access government benefits. LPR's are law abiding taxpayers.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Steven, I realize that you have a fleeting aquaintance with the truth and twist it to benefit your view, so I understand why you stretched my position on government health care for military families into a general statement that I have granted value to government health care.

You don't speak for me. I am steadfast in my position that Health care on the taxpayers dime for all is a bad idea and beyond the government's purview. The goverment owes it's military,but it doesn't owe everyone. Health care on the dole is not a human right or an entitlement for any able bodied Tom, ####### or Harriet who thinks they deserve it. The idea that thegovernment owes you just because you exist or make bad choices is an anathema to a thriving, healthy society that relies on intiative, independence and self-reliance. Those traits will soon die out in a nanny state where people look to government instead of themselves for what they need. I won't support policies that encouage that kind of dependance. Earn what you get. My views on this haven't changed.

[rebeccajo 14]

Steven, I realize that you have a fleeting aquaintance with the truth and twist it to benefit your view, so I understand why you stretched my position on government health care for military families into a general statement that I have granted value to government health care.

You don't speak for me. I am steadfast in my position that Health care on the taxpayers dime for all is a bad idea and beyond the government's purview. The goverment owes it's military,but it doesn't owe everyone. Health care on the dole is not a human right or an entitlement for any able bodied Tom, ####### or Harriet who thinks they deserve it. The idea that thegovernment owes you just because you exist or make bad choices is an anathema to a thriving, healthy society that relies on intiative, independence and self-reliance. Those traits will soon die out in a nanny state where people look to government instead of themselves for what they need. I won't support policies that encouage that kind of dependance. Earn what you get. My views on this haven't changed.

Tri Care isn't government health care.

It's the Defense Department contracting with insurance companies. It's the government contracting with the private sector.

Edited September 17, 2009 by rebeccajo

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

Steven, I realize that you have a fleeting aquaintance with the truth and twist it to benefit your view, so I understand why you stretched my position on government health care for military families into a general statement that I have granted value to government health care.

You don't speak for me. I am steadfast in my position that Health care on the taxpayers dime for all is a bad idea and beyond the government's purview. The goverment owes it's military,but it doesn't owe everyone. Health care on the dole is not a human right or an entitlement for any able bodied Tom, ####### or Harriet who thinks they deserve it. The idea that thegovernment owes you just because you exist or make bad choices is an anathema to a thriving, healthy society that relies on intiative, independence and self-reliance. Those traits will soon die out in a nanny state where people look to government instead of themselves for what they need. I won't support policies that encouage that kind of dependance. Earn what you get. My views on this haven't changed.

Tri Care isn't government health care.

It's the Defense Department contracting with insurance companies. It's the government contracting with the private sector.

complete bs. it is government health care - you need to read up on tricare prime, the one you are probably only familiar with is tricare standard. nessa and i both go to ft leavenworth and are seen there first. only if they cannot treat us, then are we referred off base (or possibly to another military base).

[HAL 9000 96]

Steven, I realize that you have a fleeting aquaintance with the truth and twist it to benefit your view, so I understand why you stretched my position on government health care for military families into a general statement that I have granted value to government health care.

You don't speak for me. I am steadfast in my position that Health care on the taxpayers dime for all is a bad idea and beyond the government's purview. The goverment owes it's military,but it doesn't owe everyone. Health care on the dole is not a human right or an entitlement for any able bodied Tom, ####### or Harriet who thinks they deserve it. The idea that thegovernment owes you just because you exist or make bad choices is an anathema to a thriving, healthy society that relies on intiative, independence and self-reliance. Those traits will soon die out in a nanny state where people look to government instead of themselves for what they need. I won't support policies that encouage that kind of dependance. Earn what you get. My views on this haven't changed.

Tri Care isn't government health care.

It's the Defense Department contracting with insurance companies. It's the government contracting with the private sector.

complete bs. it is government health care - you need to read up on tricare prime, the one you are probably only familiar with is tricare standard. nessa and i both go to ft leavenworth and are seen there first. only if they cannot treat us, then are we referred off base (or possibly to another military base).

So kind of like a 'public' option with private options.

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

Steven, I realize that you have a fleeting aquaintance with the truth and twist it to benefit your view, so I understand why you stretched my position on government health care for military families into a general statement that I have granted value to government health care.

You don't speak for me. I am steadfast in my position that Health care on the taxpayers dime for all is a bad idea and beyond the government's purview. The goverment owes it's military,but it doesn't owe everyone. Health care on the dole is not a human right or an entitlement for any able bodied Tom, ####### or Harriet who thinks they deserve it. The idea that thegovernment owes you just because you exist or make bad choices is an anathema to a thriving, healthy society that relies on intiative, independence and self-reliance. Those traits will soon die out in a nanny state where people look to government instead of themselves for what they need. I won't support policies that encouage that kind of dependance. Earn what you get. My views on this haven't changed.

Tri Care isn't government health care.

It's the Defense Department contracting with insurance companies. It's the government contracting with the private sector.

complete bs. it is government health care - you need to read up on tricare prime, the one you are probably only familiar with is tricare standard. nessa and i both go to ft leavenworth and are seen there first. only if they cannot treat us, then are we referred off base (or possibly to another military base).

So kind of like a 'public' option with private options.

if you want to call it that, feel free.

let's review how much of a non-government health care option it is.

- i go to the id card section, where a government employee (gs) verifies my eligibility, nessa's, and our baby boy's.

- i go to the hospital, where another government employee (gs) enters the data into the tricare database and i fill out the forms for my payment to be paid from my military retirement.

- the payment is withdrawn from my military retirement by the military.

- nessa, baby boy, myself - we all see military doctors first. i wonder if they are part of the government?

yup, sounds like the government has nothing to do with it at all.

[HAL 9000 96]

Steven, I realize that you have a fleeting aquaintance with the truth and twist it to benefit your view, so I understand why you stretched my position on government health care for military families into a general statement that I have granted value to government health care.

You don't speak for me. I am steadfast in my position that Health care on the taxpayers dime for all is a bad idea and beyond the government's purview. The goverment owes it's military,but it doesn't owe everyone. Health care on the dole is not a human right or an entitlement for any able bodied Tom, ####### or Harriet who thinks they deserve it. The idea that thegovernment owes you just because you exist or make bad choices is an anathema to a thriving, healthy society that relies on intiative, independence and self-reliance. Those traits will soon die out in a nanny state where people look to government instead of themselves for what they need. I won't support policies that encouage that kind of dependance. Earn what you get. My views on this haven't changed.

Tri Care isn't government health care.

It's the Defense Department contracting with insurance companies. It's the government contracting with the private sector.

complete bs. it is government health care - you need to read up on tricare prime, the one you are probably only familiar with is tricare standard. nessa and i both go to ft leavenworth and are seen there first. only if they cannot treat us, then are we referred off base (or possibly to another military base).

So kind of like a 'public' option with private options.

if you want to call it that, feel free.

let's review how much of a non-government health care option it is.

- i go to the id card section, where a government employee (gs) verifies my eligibility, nessa's, and our baby boy's.

- i go to the hospital, where another government employee (gs) enters the data into the tricare database and i fill out the forms for my payment to be paid from my military retirement.

- the payment is withdrawn from my military retirement by the military.

- nessa, baby boy, myself - we all see military doctors first. i wonder if they are part of the government?

yup, sounds like the government has nothing to do with it at all.

doesn't look all bad to me. At least the military MDs I know are excellent practitioners. I think any public service practitioners would seriously look to use an efficiency model if a public option were to use public system practitioners. I doubt that even if we did see a public option that the practitioners or most of the provider staff would be actual government employees and I'd not expect to see a whole lot of redundancy in the system... but it still looks like its too early to tell because people are playing politics over people's health.

[rebeccajo 14]

Steven, I realize that you have a fleeting aquaintance with the truth and twist it to benefit your view, so I understand why you stretched my position on government health care for military families into a general statement that I have granted value to government health care.

You don't speak for me. I am steadfast in my position that Health care on the taxpayers dime for all is a bad idea and beyond the government's purview. The goverment owes it's military,but it doesn't owe everyone. Health care on the dole is not a human right or an entitlement for any able bodied Tom, ####### or Harriet who thinks they deserve it. The idea that thegovernment owes you just because you exist or make bad choices is an anathema to a thriving, healthy society that relies on intiative, independence and self-reliance. Those traits will soon die out in a nanny state where people look to government instead of themselves for what they need. I won't support policies that encouage that kind of dependance. Earn what you get. My views on this haven't changed.

Tri Care isn't government health care.

It's the Defense Department contracting with insurance companies. It's the government contracting with the private sector.

complete bs. it is government health care - you need to read up on tricare prime, the one you are probably only familiar with is tricare standard. nessa and i both go to ft leavenworth and are seen there first. only if they cannot treat us, then are we referred off base (or possibly to another military base).

Yes I understand. It's an HMO. You picked your PCP who happens to be at Ft. Leavenworth. He refers you out.

Plain old vanilla HMO's for the rest of the working world work the exact same way - except they don't get to avail themselves of physicians who work for the military.

Edited September 18, 2009 by rebeccajo

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

doesn't look all bad to me. At least the military MDs I know are excellent practitioners. I think any public service practitioners would seriously look to use an efficiency model if a public option were to use public system practitioners. I doubt that even if we did see a public option that the practitioners or most of the provider staff would be actual government employees and I'd not expect to see a whole lot of redundancy in the system... but it still looks like its too early to tell because people are playing politics over people's health.

doesn't look all bad? military md's are excellent practitioners?

maybe you could tell that to my dad, were he still alive. an "excellent" navy doc cost him one of his testicles in the early 60's from a wrong diagnosis. and then there was that one navy doc that didn't read about my mom's drug allergies on her chart and almost killed her with a drug reaction when she was in the hospital in the late 70's.

some of those "excellent" docs treated me while i was a military dependant, while i was on active duty, and since i've been retired. i think i've been to a military doctor about 15 times in the past 45 years. here's the real winners for you, as the ones i don't mention were minor ear infections:

- infected ingrown toenail when i was about 17 ('79-'80). docs didn't give me any antibiotics for it, just instructions to wash it and blah blah blah. took almost 6 months for it to heal.

- bitten by a rattlesnake labor day '84 on the tip of my finger. no painkiller administered, just sprayed with compressed air to numb it before they cut the tip of my finger open so it could swell.

- another ingrown toenail somewhere about '85, doc removed the toenail without realizing that all of the noise i was making meant the painkiller he gave me didn't work. i was sent home for the day due to being white as a sheet.

- from surgery to repair a hernia, one of the stitches became infected. took over 24 hours to get an appointment to see a military doctor, by then i'd had enough pain and lanced the area and drained it myself.

- all just a small example of why i complain about government health care!

add onto that the run around nessa gets. the run around i get when i try to get treated. the blatant inefficiency i see every time i'm there. oh btw, as a retiree i'm at the bottom of the list for treatment. nessa and baby boy have priority over me as they'e dependants.

what did all of this cost, you asked? how about 20 years of my life. my youth. my innocence. one divorce while in a combat zone. over 10 years assigned overseas. very little chance to see family obviously during that 10 years. eventual loss of communication with most friends from high school. no long term friends due to frequent moving around. no guarantees you'll be assigned anywhere close to your family when you do return stateside. no chance to grow roots anywhere due to frequent transfers and very little incentive to buy a house as one is never assured of returning to the same place. the long hours. the low pay. the heat. the cold. the insects/vermin/snakes etc that is a constant hazard while in the field. the rain. my bad knees. my bad back. my loss of hearing.

and from my time in what is now called the first gulf war - the constant threat of hostile fire. of friendly fire. of land mines. of chemical and biological weapons use. being forced to take a non-fda approved vaccine (anthrax). being exposed to god knows what environmental issues from the burning oil wells over there that turned noon into dusk, along with whatever else the government hasn't told us about du ammo and so on.

yeah, just a walk in the park for this benefit. and now so many want the same thing without paying any of the costs. and you wonder why i say so many have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement.

top off all of the above with congress talking about raising my yearly payment to such a level that it will eat up about half my post tax retirement pay. the same yearly payment that will pretty much eat up any money nessa would get from my retirement pay as i pay into the survivor benefit plan (sbp - like an insurance policy, she'd get 55% of it under the sbp plan) so she'd have that after i'm gone.

now you tell me if my 20 years of service was all worth it and why you deserve something similar at about the same cost i'll pay should congress have their way, without you putting in the sweat and tears i did.

[rebeccajo 14]

doesn't look all bad to me. At least the military MDs I know are excellent practitioners. I think any public service practitioners would seriously look to use an efficiency model if a public option were to use public system practitioners. I doubt that even if we did see a public option that the practitioners or most of the provider staff would be actual government employees and I'd not expect to see a whole lot of redundancy in the system... but it still looks like its too early to tell because people are playing politics over people's health.

doesn't look all bad? military md's are excellent practitioners?

maybe you could tell that to my dad, were he still alive. an "excellent" navy doc cost him one of his testicles in the early 60's from a wrong diagnosis. and then there was that one navy doc that didn't read about my mom's drug allergies on her chart and almost killed her with a drug reaction when she was in the hospital in the late 70's.

some of those "excellent" docs treated me while i was a military dependant, while i was on active duty, and since i've been retired. i think i've been to a military doctor about 15 times in the past 45 years. here's the real winners for you, as the ones i don't mention were minor ear infections:

- infected ingrown toenail when i was about 17 ('79-'80). docs didn't give me any antibiotics for it, just instructions to wash it and blah blah blah. took almost 6 months for it to heal.

- bitten by a rattlesnake labor day '84 on the tip of my finger. no painkiller administered, just sprayed with compressed air to numb it before they cut the tip of my finger open so it could swell.

- another ingrown toenail somewhere about '85, doc removed the toenail without realizing that all of the noise i was making meant the painkiller he gave me didn't work. i was sent home for the day due to being white as a sheet.

- from surgery to repair a hernia, one of the stitches became infected. took over 24 hours to get an appointment to see a military doctor, by then i'd had enough pain and lanced the area and drained it myself.

- all just a small example of why i complain about government health care!

add onto that the run around nessa gets. the run around i get when i try to get treated. the blatant inefficiency i see every time i'm there. oh btw, as a retiree i'm at the bottom of the list for treatment. nessa and baby boy have priority over me as they'e dependants.

what did all of this cost, you asked? how about 20 years of my life. my youth. my innocence. one divorce while in a combat zone. over 10 years assigned overseas. very little chance to see family obviously during that 10 years. eventual loss of communication with most friends from high school. no long term friends due to frequent moving around. no guarantees you'll be assigned anywhere close to your family when you do return stateside. no chance to grow roots anywhere due to frequent transfers and very little incentive to buy a house as one is never assured of returning to the same place. the long hours. the low pay. the heat. the cold. the insects/vermin/snakes etc that is a constant hazard while in the field. the rain. my bad knees. my bad back. my loss of hearing.

and from my time in what is now called the first gulf war - the constant threat of hostile fire. of friendly fire. of land mines. of chemical and biological weapons use. being forced to take a non-fda approved vaccine (anthrax). being exposed to god knows what environmental issues from the burning oil wells over there that turned noon into dusk, along with whatever else the government hasn't told us about du ammo and so on.

yeah, just a walk in the park for this benefit. and now so many want the same thing without paying any of the costs. and you wonder why i say so many have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement.

top off all of the above with congress talking about raising my yearly payment to such a level that it will eat up about half my post tax retirement pay. the same yearly payment that will pretty much eat up any money nessa would get from my retirement pay as i pay into the survivor benefit plan (sbp - like an insurance policy, she'd get 55% of it under the sbp plan) so she'd have that after i'm gone.

now you tell me if my 20 years of service was all worth it and why you deserve something similar at about the same cost i'll pay should congress have their way, without you putting in the sweat and tears i did.

Well, gee.

Maybe you should have had a regular job then!

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

Well, gee.

Maybe you should have had a regular job then!

yeah, excuse me for reading about jfk when i was a kid and he said something to the effect of "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

i shoulda sat around and waited for a handout.

[rebeccajo 14]

Well, gee.

Maybe you should have had a regular job then!

yeah, excuse me for reading about jfk when i was a kid and he said something to the effect of "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

i shoulda sat around and waited for a handout.

You're the one belly-aching about it. Not me.

Which is how this whole thing started in the first place.