Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'

[zqt3344 21]

All Americans earn it and deserve free health care not just the military, if we can do it for them we can do it for all of us, and that includes me paying all these taxes, the real unsung heroes out here are Joe and Nelly middle class tax payer that work and get ripped off all the time and expected to foot the bill for the military, welfare, ACORN, I mean you name it and then get handed the damn bill and asked to pay more! Sick of it.

I believe those in the military are more deserving of government bennies than those who did not serve, and that includes me. I'm grateful to them.

So you're in favor of government health care, just not for everyone?

Yes, for the military members and their families. They earn my tax dollars.

[Ling Ling 22]

I believe those in the military are more deserving of government bennies than those who did not serve, and that includes me. I'm grateful to them.

So you're in favor of government health care, just not for everyone?

Yes, for the military members and their families. They earn my tax dollars.

So you're saying YOU don't earn your own tax dollars?

Or are you saying that we all just work for the military. They should get world class healthcare, and the rest of the tax payers should fend for themselves?

Would your slogan be something like, "If you want affordable world class healthcare, join the military. Otherwise, you're on your own"?

[zqt3344 21]

You pretty much summed it up there!

I believe those in the military are more deserving of government bennies than those who did not serve, and that includes me. I'm grateful to them.

So you're in favor of government health care, just not for everyone?

Yes, for the military members and their families. They earn my tax dollars.

So you're saying YOU don't earn your own tax dollars?

Or are you saying that we all just work for the military. They should get world class healthcare, and the rest of the tax payers should fend for themselves?

Would your slogan be something like, "If you want affordable world class healthcare, join the military. Otherwise, you're on your own"?

[Ling Ling 22]

All Americans earn it and deserve free health care not just the military, if we can do it for them we can do it for all of us, and that includes me paying all these taxes, the real unsung heroes out here are Joe and Nelly middle class tax payer that work and get ripped off all the time and expected to foot the bill for the military, welfare, ACORN, I mean you name it and then get handed the damn bill and asked to pay more! Sick of it.

I disagree that ALL Americans earn it. Those who are not criminals, those who are not delinquent in child support, those who are not on welfare, and those that pay their taxes...to me that's a first-class citizen, deserving of first class treatment. Criminals, dead beats, welfare recipients and tax cheats are all detracting from our society, and creating a burden the rest of us have to share. So just like on the airline when they say, "put your oxygen mask on before attempting to help others" those of us that are contributing to society deserve the best healthcare...because as was pointed out, we pay for the military, welfare, etc. etc. etc.

[tmma 467]

I don't know about anyone else ( and it's NOMB) but I PAY FOR TRICARE PRIME ( for my family)......and I had to forfeit my retirement that I had paid into , even though I was medically retired-no choice.

I AM grateful that the DoD has provisions and mechanisms in place for veterans; but even that comes with it's own drawbacks & shortcomings. If people are working for an employer that does not offer such provisions after being in a hazardous workplace for God-knows-how-long is no one's fault but the ungrateful employer and legislation that makes this country a tough place to be employed in.

Similarly- (IMO) I believe that adequate health insurance should be a requirement to the I-134 when petitioning a SO from overseas; but when I said that a couple of years back (that Mark and I were spending time covering that and checking on his prospective employer...etc and that was our delay), I got accused of being uptight and 'unromantic' or whatever.

Hmmmmmm.

Anyway; I have a flag, bunch of medals and a letter from the Prez and Tricare from a grateful nation....Thanks guys!

edit--Mark's employer covers health insurance; that's one of the things he was looking at when he was applying to employers before he flew here.

Edited September 17, 2009 by tmma

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I don't know about anyone else ( and it's NOMB) but I PAY FOR TRICARE PRIME ( for my family)......and I had to forfeit my retirement that I had paid into , even though I was medically retired-no choice.

I AM grateful that the DoD has provisions and mechanisms in place for veterans; but even that comes with it's own drawbacks & shortcomings. If people are working for an employer that does not offer such provisions after being in a hazardous workplace for God-knows-how-long is no one's fault but the ungrateful employer and legislation that makes this country a tough place to be employed in.

Shele,

That's the heart of the argument over health care reform - short of an employee mandate, how do we get everyone covered because keeping the status quo of 48 million uninsured and growing, all of us are paying for more than we would with everyone covered.

Second, you and Sofi have effectively acknowledge the value of government health care entitlements to military veterans. So at least, the argument that government health care can't work has just been negated by at least one person (Sofi) who has argued for awhile now that there is no value in government paid health care.

The Sixty four dollar question is how do we go about getting everyone covered?

[rebeccajo 14]

Just in case anybody is confused here, there are many employers that offer health insurance but either

1. Pay a far lower percentage of the monthly premium than the traditional contribution; or

2. The premiums are ridiculously high to begin with; or

3. The wages of the staff are way out of proportion with what they are asked to pay; or

4. The plan selected by the employer has abysmal benefits.

You can find these four points separately or in any combination for many persons, including myself. My employer only pays 60% of the monthly premium. The industry average is 75% to 80%. We are in open enrollment right now with a new plan. I will give my employer credit in that they have found us better coverage with a better insurance company. My employer uses the 'excuse' that they can only contribute 60% due to the fact they are a non-profit agency. The consequence for many of the employees is that purchasing health insurance through the agency makes employment a non-profit proposition.

Tri-Care offers great coverage for a very low cost to the member. Most benefits require no co-pays. Most services are covered at 100%. In short, it is the equivalent of what most Americans USED to have. I just find it really non-sensical for anyone to continually belabor how horrible it is, especially when they know good and well there are others worse off.

[tmma 467]

I don't know about anyone else ( and it's NOMB) but I PAY FOR TRICARE PRIME ( for my family)......and I had to forfeit my retirement that I had paid into , even though I was medically retired-no choice.

I AM grateful that the DoD has provisions and mechanisms in place for veterans; but even that comes with it's own drawbacks & shortcomings. If people are working for an employer that does not offer such provisions after being in a hazardous workplace for God-knows-how-long is no one's fault but the ungrateful employer and legislation that makes this country a tough place to be employed in.

Shele,

That's the heart of the argument over health care reform - short of an employee mandate, how do we get everyone covered because keeping the status quo of 48 million uninsured and growing, all of us are paying for more than we would with everyone covered.

Second, you and Sofi have effectively acknowledge the value of government health care entitlements to military veterans. So at least, the argument that government health care can't work has just been negated by at least one person (Sofi) who has argued for awhile now that there is no value in government paid health care.

The Sixty four dollar question is how do we go about getting everyone covered?

Employment Law here in the US has been something that has not only shocked me ( I grew up in the UK) but intrigued me. I remember having to work until the day before my scheduled C-Section and muttering to myself ' what kind of a Fu77ed up country IS this? This is barbaric'...Telling my mother about it in the UK and she was absolutly disgusted because there they get a couple of months off before the birth...Anyway I am off on a tangent...Sorry.

Do employers have a responsibility to their employees...YES! Does 'something' need to be done about the uninsured here in the US...Hell, yes. Do I have answers...No...I am not to proud to say I don't. What i do know is that for all the good employment practices in the UK-the NHS Trust that my mother was in 'couldn't afford to give her the bone scan that fiscal quarter' subsequently the spread of her cancer went undetected for too long waiting....

arrrgh anyway to answer you ques...I don't know. Obama speaks a good talk and makes it sound deficit neutral but the ques is can we do it?

edit-can i have my $64 now....?

Edited September 17, 2009 by tmma

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Just in case anybody is confused here, there are many employers that offer health insurance but either

1. Pay a far lower percentage of the monthly premium than the traditional contribution; or

2. The premiums are ridiculously high to begin with; or

3. The wages of the staff are way out of proportion with what they are asked to pay; or

4. The plan selected by the employer has abysmal benefits.

You can find these four points separately or in any combination for many persons, including myself. My employer only pays 60% of the monthly premium. The industry average is 75% to 80%. We are in open enrollment right now with a new plan. I will give my employer credit in that they have found us better coverage with a better insurance company. My employer uses the 'excuse' that they can only contribute 60% due to the fact they are a non-profit agency. The consequence for many of the employees is that purchasing health insurance through the agency makes employment a non-profit proposition.

Tri-Care offers great coverage for a very low cost to the member. Most benefits require no co-pays. Most services are covered at 100%. In short, it is the equivalent of what most Americans USED to have. I just find it really non-sensical for anyone to continually belabor how horrible it is, especially when they know good and well there are others worse off.

Very important points.

I posted the actual costs for McDonald's employees awhile back when someone suggested that even McDonald's offers health insurance to their employers.

[rebeccajo 14]

I have never understood why it should be the responsibility of the employer to provide health insurance for employees.

From a purely capitalistic standpoint, it makes no sense. It is a drain on resources and the tax advantages it provides are being overridden by the bottom line cost.

People worry about care being dictated by the government. The way I see it, care is now dictated by our employers and the plans they choose for us. As the cost has risen, not only has more of the cost been transferred to the employee, but the type of coverage has changed. Employers 'shop' insurance plans by cost. It is rare that coverage is a factor. They are looking to lower what they pay out and we have to accept whatever they buy for us.

In my city, I am seeing more and more United Healthcare cards. United Healthcare is ranked as one of the worst insurers in the US. Yet more employers in this area are signing up with them. Three guesses (and the first two don't count) as to why that might be.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I don't know about anyone else ( and it's NOMB) but I PAY FOR TRICARE PRIME ( for my family)......and I had to forfeit my retirement that I had paid into , even though I was medically retired-no choice.

I AM grateful that the DoD has provisions and mechanisms in place for veterans; but even that comes with it's own drawbacks & shortcomings. If people are working for an employer that does not offer such provisions after being in a hazardous workplace for God-knows-how-long is no one's fault but the ungrateful employer and legislation that makes this country a tough place to be employed in.

Shele,

That's the heart of the argument over health care reform - short of an employee mandate, how do we get everyone covered because keeping the status quo of 48 million uninsured and growing, all of us are paying for more than we would with everyone covered.

Second, you and Sofi have effectively acknowledge the value of government health care entitlements to military veterans. So at least, the argument that government health care can't work has just been negated by at least one person (Sofi) who has argued for awhile now that there is no value in government paid health care.

The Sixty four dollar question is how do we go about getting everyone covered?

Employment Law here in the US has been something that has not only shocked me ( I grew up in the UK) but intrigued me. I remember having to work until the day before my scheduled C-Section and muttering to myself ' what kind of a Fu77ed up country IS this? This is barbaric'...Telling my mother about it in the UK and she was absolutly disgusted because there they get a couple of months off before the birth...Anyway I am off on a tangent...Sorry.

Do employers have a responsibility to their employees...YES! Does 'something' need to be done about the uninsured here in the US...Hell, yes. Do I have answers...No...I am not to proud to say I don't. What i do know is that for all the good employment practices in the UK-the NHS Trust that my mother was in 'couldn't afford to give her the bone scan that fiscal quarter' subsequently the spread of her cancer went undetected for too long waiting....

arrrgh anyway to answer you ques...I don't know. Obama speaks a good talk and makes it sound deficit neutral but the ques is can we do it?

edit-can i have my $64 now....?

Sorry about your mother.

I personally don't think it should be the responsibility of employers to provide health insurance to their employees. It was the unions that successfully made health insurance as part of the benefits from employment, but the unions have since weakened combined with job growth mostly in low-skilled labor, employers aren't about to start providing adequate and affordable health insurance to their low-skilled workers, unless there was some kind of government mandate.

[tmma 467]

p.s I've not had any problems with Tricare (Prime). Other's experience may or may not be different....It was tough in the beginning to find a PCM out here that took it-but after that....eh...not too bad.

[rebeccajo 14]

p.s I've not had any problems with Tricare (Prime). Other's experience may or may not be different....It was tough in the beginning to find a PCM out here that took it-but after that....eh...not too bad.

We have the same provider problem in our agency - there are only three clinicians and one doctor on our staff that participate in the Tri-Care network. I don't know whether Tri-Care is one of 'those' companies that only entertain credentials on invitation or if it's a case of fewer providers in areas with a smaller 'service person' population.

[tmma 467]

I have never understood why it should be the responsibility of the employer to provide health insurance for employees.

From a purely capitalistic standpoint, it makes no sense. It is a drain on resources and the tax advantages it provides are being overridden by the bottom line cost.

People worry about care being dictated by the government. The way I see it, care is now dictated by our employers and the plans they choose for us. As the cost has risen, not only has more of the cost been transferred to the employee, but the type of coverage has changed. Employers 'shop' insurance plans by cost. It is rare that coverage is a factor. They are looking to lower what they pay out and we have to accept whatever they buy for us.

In my city, I am seeing more and more United Healthcare cards. United Healthcare is ranked as one of the worst insurers in the US. Yet more employers in this area are signing up with them. Three guesses (and the first two don't count) as to why that might be.

I only mentioned employer responsibility because you mentioned the hazardous workplace your ex-husband was in. I suppose I connected the dots wrong, it's just i have seen just how bad the Govt can get in the way of healthcare. How underfunded it can get and yes, how care is rationed but the term used is 'budget available the quarter'...... But I understand that my experience is only one among many and alot of folks have had good experiences with Govt run h/c.

that's all-but then my opinion of Govt h/c is maybe skewed because I am still hurting...and I admit that.

I don't know about anyone else ( and it's NOMB) but I PAY FOR TRICARE PRIME ( for my family)......and I had to forfeit my retirement that I had paid into , even though I was medically retired-no choice.

I AM grateful that the DoD has provisions and mechanisms in place for veterans; but even that comes with it's own drawbacks & shortcomings. If people are working for an employer that does not offer such provisions after being in a hazardous workplace for God-knows-how-long is no one's fault but the ungrateful employer and legislation that makes this country a tough place to be employed in.

Shele,

That's the heart of the argument over health care reform - short of an employee mandate, how do we get everyone covered because keeping the status quo of 48 million uninsured and growing, all of us are paying for more than we would with everyone covered.

Second, you and Sofi have effectively acknowledge the value of government health care entitlements to military veterans. So at least, the argument that government health care can't work has just been negated by at least one person (Sofi) who has argued for awhile now that there is no value in government paid health care.

The Sixty four dollar question is how do we go about getting everyone covered?

Employment Law here in the US has been something that has not only shocked me ( I grew up in the UK) but intrigued me. I remember having to work until the day before my scheduled C-Section and muttering to myself ' what kind of a Fu77ed up country IS this? This is barbaric'...Telling my mother about it in the UK and she was absolutly disgusted because there they get a couple of months off before the birth...Anyway I am off on a tangent...Sorry.

Do employers have a responsibility to their employees...YES! Does 'something' need to be done about the uninsured here in the US...Hell, yes. Do I have answers...No...I am not to proud to say I don't. What i do know is that for all the good employment practices in the UK-the NHS Trust that my mother was in 'couldn't afford to give her the bone scan that fiscal quarter' subsequently the spread of her cancer went undetected for too long waiting....

arrrgh anyway to answer you ques...I don't know. Obama speaks a good talk and makes it sound deficit neutral but the ques is can we do it?

edit-can i have my $64 now....?

Sorry about your mother.

......

Thanks , i appreciate it....and apols for going on tangent.

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

Tri-Care offers great coverage for a very low cost to the member. Most benefits require no co-pays. Most services are covered at 100%. In short, it is the equivalent of what most Americans USED to have. I just find it really non-sensical for anyone to continually belabor how horrible it is, especially when they know good and well there are others worse off.

for now........until the rates get jacked up 12-14 times what they are now - and yes, that's currently being discussed in washington.

Edited September 17, 2009 by charles!