Don't cut our (public) health care

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

you obviously failed Critical Thinking 101, and are bedazzled by the spin the author puts upon the facts which little jennifer herself has presented us with. the benefit the UMW retirees receive is an EMPLOYMENT BENEFIT that was paid for long ago by the company they were working for. it doesn't matter if the .gov helped the miners union get the benefit negotiated into the terms of their employment, or not. it is still an EMPLOYMENT BENEFIT.

this is not what osama wants to force American taxpayers to pay for. he wants us to pay for health care for EVERYBODY, including illegals, whether they are working or have worked or are married to someone who has or are a child of someone who has, OR NOT. this is called socialism, a system in which the rich take from the middle and the poor, keep 30% for unrelated spending and general graft and corruption, spend 30% on inflated salaries for their buds, and give 40% back to the people they took it from.

shame on the rest of you for not reading the article and seeing it for yourselves.

Shame on you for not only failing to understand the point of the article but also failing to understand what the administration is looking for in health care reform. Shame on you also for being complacent with being ripped off by the current fractured, inefficient, unsustainable and failed system. Shame on you for refusing to argue on merits but rather parrot the nonsense sound bites the protectors of the profiteers of the status quo have prepared for people like you and resorting to infantile name calling of the President of United States of America.

Edited September 17, 2009 by Mr. Big Dog

[NickD 203]

Including prenatal care, delivery, and the hospital, my son cost me 460 bucks, was hardly a weeks pay back then. My son's daughter cost him over $15,000 last year for the same thing. But I don't believe he earns 15,000 bucks per week.

It's not healthcare cost that is the problem, we just ain't making enough.

My non-deductible family policy was costing me 78 buck per month for a family policy, son has a deductible plus has to pay 20% so he was billed over 5,000 bucks, his insurance picked up the rest, if there was any rest.

If I were to quit or leave my job back then, could keep that same exact policy and continue to pay 78 bucks per month, today for lack of a better word, you are screwed blue.

Over that same time period, wages have only increased by 38%. All the politicians have to do is to look up those regulation laws and reinstate them, healthcare was not a problem back then.

[rebeccajo 14]

Including prenatal care, delivery, and the hospital, my son cost me 460 bucks, was hardly a weeks pay back then. My son's daughter cost him over $15,000 last year for the same thing. But I don't believe he earns 15,000 bucks per week.

It's not healthcare cost that is the problem, we just ain't making enough.

My non-deductible family policy was costing me 78 buck per month for a family policy, son has a deductible plus has to pay 20% so he was billed over 5,000 bucks, his insurance picked up the rest, if there was any rest.

If I were to quit or leave my job back then, could keep that same exact policy and continue to pay 78 bucks per month, today for lack of a better word, you are screwed blue.

Over that same time period, wages have only increased by 38%. All the politicians have to do is to look up those regulation laws and reinstate them, healthcare was not a problem back then.

Nick - Health insurance cost a LOT less back when your son was born. A lot. That's why most of us didn't pay a dime for it 30 years ago.

Sure we aren't making enough - we aren't making enough to cover the escalated costs. Otherwise wages have nothing to do with it, IMO.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Including prenatal care, delivery, and the hospital, my son cost me 460 bucks, was hardly a weeks pay back then. My son's daughter cost him over $15,000 last year for the same thing. But I don't believe he earns 15,000 bucks per week.

It's not healthcare cost that is the problem, we just ain't making enough.

My non-deductible family policy was costing me 78 buck per month for a family policy, son has a deductible plus has to pay 20% so he was billed over 5,000 bucks, his insurance picked up the rest, if there was any rest.

If I were to quit or leave my job back then, could keep that same exact policy and continue to pay 78 bucks per month, today for lack of a better word, you are screwed blue.

Over that same time period, wages have only increased by 38%. All the politicians have to do is to look up those regulation laws and reinstate them, healthcare was not a problem back then.

Nick - Health insurance cost a LOT less back when your son was born. A lot. That's why most of us didn't pay a dime for it 30 years ago.

Sure we aren't making enough - we aren't making enough to cover the escalated costs. Otherwise wages have nothing to do with it, IMO.

Agreed. Health insurance cost has gone up well over 100% in the last decades alone. There cannot be an expectation that wages would rise in that manner.

[zqt3344 21]

You are just as ignorant and wildly radical to the left as the people you describe here to the right and neither of you are the solution to our problems in the USA, as matter of fact you make me sick because of these to wildly radical sides there is gridlock now and no health care reform but a mess, you are a hater of other Americans unlike you, takes a racist to know one And birthers? Come on look at the kooks on the left and what they did to Bush and Clinton!

Ovomit has been a total failure on this health care, no leadership at all and that is why it is not going to get done thanks to him he has only made it worse. More division now and fighting than before and now this dropping Eastern Europe missile shield, he just showed all or any one that was an ally of the USA that he is weak and that he is afraid of mother Russia and that those countries are on their own without USA help at all. So go ahead and spin it all you want but that is the truth to those people living in Easter Europe and rest of the world, makes the USA look weak even more so.

Once again the normal Americans in the moderate middle are going to get screwed, but that is why you are seeing so many protesters at these teabag parties and town hall meetings, moderate America is fed up with both you on the left and the right and are mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!

The America hating tea baggers, birthers and racists ought to take note of what the American Way really is and has been.

Don't cut our (public) health care

By Jennifer Klein

NEW HAVEN, Connecticut (CNN) -- "We worked hard to get it and we're going to keep it," said Nancy Snyder, one of the protesters attending this summer's health care town meetings.

Nancy and her husband Robert, retirees from Philipsburg, Pennsylvania, showed up at a town hall held by Sen. Arlen Specter, in State College, Pennsylvania, with signs condemning socialist takeover of their health care, and she was interviewed by Michel Martin on National Public Radio's "Tell Me More."

When asked how she had insurance coverage, Nancy explained that because her husband was a retired coal miner, they received insurance and care through the United Mine Workers. She attended the town hall because she said she had "had enough of the government interfering with our lives, after working hard all of our lives, especially to get the health care."

The historical reality, however, is that there would be no UMW health and retirement plan without the federal government. Our inability to acknowledge the real role of government plays right into the hands of private companies that have never solved the challenges of health security.

In April 1946, John L. Lewis, leader of the UMW, led the coal miners out on strike around a pioneering demand: employer contributions to a union health and welfare fund. Miners had long suffered debilitating health problems and notorious medical neglect in camps and towns run by authoritarian mine companies. For Lewis, changing the balance of power between workers and owners necessitated independent and guaranteed health security, but the mine owners had no intention of settling.

Facing a strike that could choke the economy, President Harry Truman intervened through the War Labor Disputes Act. With the mines officially under federal jurisdiction, Truman was ready to make a deal. The mine owners however were not as eager.

Truman pressured mine owners into signing a contract in which they would pay for a union Welfare and Retirement Fund -- hospital, medical, and retirement plans -- all financed by a royalty assessed on the amount of coal extracted by union workers.

The Social Security Administration provided technical assistance in designing the union-run welfare program. The settlement was industry-wide, regardless of company, thus equalizing the sharing of risk and the benefits of "social" insurance.

The Social Security Administration and the Public Health Service recruited staff for the UMW program. Physicians, public health experts, and industrial health experts came from the Public Health Service and the Farm Security Administration. The FSA had successfully run rural medical programs during the 1930s and World War II. Through the fund, UMW built a network of well equipped, modern hospitals, bringing about a major improvement in living standards.

Over the next two decades, federal subsidy became more direct. Social Security disability benefits and federal rehabilitation programs aided thousands of disabled miners, many of whom had been bedridden for years. By picking up the tab for rehabilitation and disability support, the federal government also kept the UMW program financially sustainable.

As employment declined and mining families struggled in the 1960s, mineworkers launched widespread protest demonstrations and traveled to Washington to lobby for federal support of UMW hospitals. Presidents Kennedy and Johnson responded with the Area Redevelopment Administration, the 1964 Economic Opportunity Act, the Appalachian Redevelopment Act, and of course, Medicare.

Government stabilized and expanded the miners' health system. Miners were proud beneficiaries of Johnson's Great Society -- today so much maligned by the conservative talk show hosts. Miners continued their pressure, leading to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, marshalling public force to protect their health in the private workplace.

If Nancy Snyder "did not pay one penny" for her husband's cancer treatment or her surgeries, it's because government subsidized that care since Robert's early days as a miner.

While she and her husband undoubtedly worked hard for what they have, these were by no means individual or private achievements. They represent shared social projects that were fought for and won collectively. The entire system of employee health insurance emerged because of direct federal support for unions and collective bargaining during the formative decades of the 1940s, 50s, and 60s.

The thousands of people who poured into the Remote Area Medical care emergency clinic on one August weekend in Virginia have no health insurance. They are suffering like the miners of 80 years ago. Who will tip the balance of power again in their favor?

Health care reform will derail once more if we can't learn to talk honestly about public benefits and public goods -- how they protect us from the insecurities and inequities of the market and promote genuine economic security in the face of real imbalances of economic power and resources.

The only moments when health security has been achieved in America are those founded on a partnership between empowered citizens and the federal government.

It's been the American way all along.

[Peikko 1,575]

Thems fighting words, ZQT has joined the ranks of domestic terrorism!

[justashooter 430]

you obviously failed Critical Thinking 101, and are bedazzled by the spin the author puts upon the facts which little jennifer herself has presented us with. the benefit the UMW retirees receive is an EMPLOYMENT BENEFIT that was paid for long ago by the company they were working for. it doesn't matter if the .gov helped the miners union get the benefit negotiated into the terms of their employment, or not. it is still an EMPLOYMENT BENEFIT.

this is not what osama wants to force American taxpayers to pay for. he wants us to pay for health care for EVERYBODY, including illegals, whether they are working or have worked or are married to someone who has or are a child of someone who has, OR NOT. this is called socialism, a system in which the rich take from the middle and the poor, keep 30% for unrelated spending and general graft and corruption, spend 30% on inflated salaries for their buds, and give 40% back to the people they took it from.

shame on the rest of you for not reading the article and seeing it for yourselves.

Shame on you for not only failing to understand the point of the article but also failing to understand what the administration is looking for in health care reform. Shame on you also for being complacent with being ripped off by the current fractured, inefficient, unsustainable and failed system. Shame on you for refusing to argue on merits but rather parrot the nonsense sound bites the protectors of the profiteers of the status quo have prepared for people like you and resorting to infantile name calling of the President of United States of America.

like i said, you can't see the forest for the trees. you want to see a parking lot, so it's a parking lot, despite the acres of trees.

calling Obama Osama, oh, like the terrorist.. such logic and observation there...

Freedom of speech has responsibility as well.. or else, you look like a fool, i.e. calling Obama "the fuhrer"..

two guys with similar education and orientation, both intent on destroying the cohesive America of my youth. neither one gets any points with me. neither one is adding to order in our society.

freedom of speach is for all of us, pedro, not just you.

Hitler and Obama have similar Orientation... now that's news to me... so are we living in the fourth Reich now?

osama and obama, dufus. cleo was being obsequious, but you're just a dufus.

[HAL 9000 96]

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Once again the normal Americans in the moderate middle are going to get screwed, but that is why you are seeing so many protesters at these teabag parties and town hall meetings, moderate America is fed up with both you on the left and the right and are mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!

There wasn't a moderate American at any of these tea parties. Not one.

you obviously failed Critical Thinking 101, and are bedazzled by the spin the author puts upon the facts which little jennifer herself has presented us with. the benefit the UMW retirees receive is an EMPLOYMENT BENEFIT that was paid for long ago by the company they were working for. it doesn't matter if the .gov helped the miners union get the benefit negotiated into the terms of their employment, or not. it is still an EMPLOYMENT BENEFIT.

this is not what osama wants to force American taxpayers to pay for. he wants us to pay for health care for EVERYBODY, including illegals, whether they are working or have worked or are married to someone who has or are a child of someone who has, OR NOT. this is called socialism, a system in which the rich take from the middle and the poor, keep 30% for unrelated spending and general graft and corruption, spend 30% on inflated salaries for their buds, and give 40% back to the people they took it from.

shame on the rest of you for not reading the article and seeing it for yourselves.

Shame on you for not only failing to understand the point of the article but also failing to understand what the administration is looking for in health care reform. Shame on you also for being complacent with being ripped off by the current fractured, inefficient, unsustainable and failed system. Shame on you for refusing to argue on merits but rather parrot the nonsense sound bites the protectors of the profiteers of the status quo have prepared for people like you and resorting to infantile name calling of the President of United States of America.

like i said, you can't see the forest for the trees. you want to see a parking lot, so it's a parking lot, despite the acres of trees.

Like I said, you are refusing to argue on merits.

Edited September 17, 2009 by Mr. Big Dog

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Please try to continue the discussion on this topic without resorting to name-calling and insults. They really derail the focus from the discussion and add absolutely nothing to the debate. Resorting to name calling and insults usually indicates that the poster knows their arguments are weak and hopes to divert the attention away from the actual topic. So, if you really want to prove your point of view- stay on topic and forget the insults, personal attacks and name-calling.

[pedroh 21]

you obviously failed Critical Thinking 101, and are bedazzled by the spin the author puts upon the facts which little jennifer herself has presented us with. the benefit the UMW retirees receive is an EMPLOYMENT BENEFIT that was paid for long ago by the company they were working for. it doesn't matter if the .gov helped the miners union get the benefit negotiated into the terms of their employment, or not. it is still an EMPLOYMENT BENEFIT.

this is not what osama wants to force American taxpayers to pay for. he wants us to pay for health care for EVERYBODY, including illegals, whether they are working or have worked or are married to someone who has or are a child of someone who has, OR NOT. this is called socialism, a system in which the rich take from the middle and the poor, keep 30% for unrelated spending and general graft and corruption, spend 30% on inflated salaries for their buds, and give 40% back to the people they took it from.

shame on the rest of you for not reading the article and seeing it for yourselves.

Shame on you for not only failing to understand the point of the article but also failing to understand what the administration is looking for in health care reform. Shame on you also for being complacent with being ripped off by the current fractured, inefficient, unsustainable and failed system. Shame on you for refusing to argue on merits but rather parrot the nonsense sound bites the protectors of the profiteers of the status quo have prepared for people like you and resorting to infantile name calling of the President of United States of America.

like i said, you can't see the forest for the trees. you want to see a parking lot, so it's a parking lot, despite the acres of trees.

calling Obama Osama, oh, like the terrorist.. such logic and observation there...

Freedom of speech has responsibility as well.. or else, you look like a fool, i.e. calling Obama "the fuhrer"..

two guys with similar education and orientation, both intent on destroying the cohesive America of my youth. neither one gets any points with me. neither one is adding to order in our society.

freedom of speach is for all of us, pedro, not just you.

Hitler and Obama have similar Orientation... now that's news to me... so are we living in the fourth Reich now?

osama and obama, dufus. cleo was being obsequious, but you're just a dufus.

Oh Yea, Osama and Obama, have similar orientation as well, I forgot that we had a muslim extremist president... Obama has many pictures of him wearing a turban, and with his long beard..

btw, the America of your youth, the America that you reminisce of, it's long gone.. I think that people should embrace a changed America (no, not Obama Change, just a changed America), and that's the main problem, America is not the America of the youth of anybody, it's different, and people should change as well and adapt

[PlatyPius 5]

Please try to continue the discussion on this topic without resorting to name-calling and insults. They really derail the focus from the discussion and add absolutely nothing to the debate. Resorting to name calling and insults usually indicates that the poster knows their arguments are weak and hopes to divert the attention away from the actual topic. So, if you really want to prove your point of view- stay on topic and forget the insults, personal attacks and name-calling.

See, I completely disagree with that. If I insult someone, it's because they are so mind-numbingly moronic that name-calling and insults are the only things my mind can come up with in it's befuddled state.

[natty bumppo 297]

Please try to continue the discussion on this topic without resorting to name-calling and insults. They really derail the focus from the discussion and add absolutely nothing to the debate. Resorting to name calling and insults usually indicates that the poster knows their arguments are weak and hopes to divert the attention away from the actual topic. So, if you really want to prove your point of view- stay on topic and forget the insults, personal attacks and name-calling.

See, I completely disagree with that. If I insult someone, it's because they are so mind-numbingly moronic that name-calling and insults are the only things my mind can come up with in it's befuddled state.

and about the only words the mind-numbingly moronic person can understand?

[Peikko 1,575]

Name calling can be cathartic as long as it is recognized that all parties are equally adult. I suppose the mods are trying to prevent some bullying incident or something but...I just think it's silly.

[justashooter 430]

btw, the America of your youth, the America that you reminisce of, it's long gone.. I think that people should embrace a changed America (no, not Obama Change, just a changed America), and that's the main problem, America is not the America of the youth of anybody, it's different, and people should change as well and adapt

in the America of my youth we didn't have such a large percentage of society on welfare, or working jobs that don't pay taxes, drug related killings, MS13 gang activity, illlegal aliens in mass, road rage confrontations, mass murders by lunatics in public places, latino run whorehouses staffed by kidnapped underaged illegal girls, illegals killing thru homicide by vehicle while DUI, terrorist acts within the US, "home invasions", muslim prayer calls from towers in detroit that offend non-muslims in the area, black on white violence on anything near the scale we have today, etc.

maybe you weren't in America in the 70's, but it was a much more coherent and sedate place. people were safer because their fellows behaved more appropriately. much of the change we have seen since then can be placed squarely at the feet of illegal immigration, and the rest can be blamed on "diversity". remind me again what i got in exchange for the peace of my youth that has been worth the price.