Beating on school bus upsets parents

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Now you got it.

And in your opinion, is that a function of race or is that a function of something else?

That right there is why these discussions inevitably go to hell.

The discussion goes to hell because you guys discredit facts based on your opinion. I have so far posted four sets of stats, which you have either overlooked or discredited on the basis of your opinion. I think bla bla bla. Who cares what you think. Either prove them wrong using your own facts or shut up.

You have a one-track mind don't you.

I haven't disputed or discredited your statistics at all - I have no reason to. They may well be entirely accurate. Suggesting that they are wrong has never been my point.

I do however find fault in your selective cherry-picking of statistics and your limited analysis of them.

Edited September 16, 2009 by Private Pike

[HAL 9000 96]

So if they are scaled per 100K, and the absolute numbers where the data comes from are still weighed 2 to 1, White to Black in your example, then the scaling factor applies to both absolute sets. What difference in population are you referring to?

Population stats of the same year of the crime stats

White population: 221.3 million

Black Population: 40.9 million

Black perps total = 32,443 + 7,705 = 40,148 perps

White perps total = 98,300 + 0 = 98,300 perps

As such:

1 in every 2251 white Americans committed rape.

1 in every 1018 black Americans committed rape

Now you got it.

And in your opinion, is that a function of race or is that a function of something else?

Is the not a no brainer. A black male is twice as likely to rape a woman as is a white male. Or is that because of economic injustice too? I guess the president's opinion that rape is more acceptable in some societies than others is wrong too?

Why is a black male twice as likely to rape a woman as a white man? Lets have your conclusion, not others' misrepresented statements.

Simple answer...

[Heracles 417]

I think the mistake you are making (if you are really interested in sociology) is you are focussing on crime statistics to the exclusion of everything else.

That statistic is certainly disturbing, but if you refuse to look at other aspects of the problem (family history, socio-economics for example), you aren't really going to get the full picture of what is actually going on and what the real causes of these problems are.

Sorry six but there is no justification of rape. None period. As there is no justification of beating a kid senseless going to school, who just wants to sit down.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think the mistake you are making (if you are really interested in sociology) is you are focussing on crime statistics to the exclusion of everything else.

That statistic is certainly disturbing, but if you refuse to look at other aspects of the problem (family history, socio-economics for example), you aren't really going to get the full picture of what is actually going on and what the real causes of these problems are.

Sorry six but there is no justification of rape. None period. As there is no justification of beating a kid senseless going to school, who just wants to sit down.

You don't need to apologise - I know there is no justification of those things.

I never said that they are, and if you think that's what I'm saying - you're drawing the wrong conclusion.

[Heracles 417]

You have a one-track mind don't you.

I haven't disputed or discredited your statistics at all - I have no reason to. They may well be entirely accurate. Suggesting that they are wrong has never been my point.

I do however find fault in your selective cherry-picking of statistics and your limited analysis of them.

So show me otherwise? You guys have a history of playing down statistics but never ever show any of your own. Your opinion means squat until you can back it up.

[HAL 9000 96]

Certainly- and is that glorification of thuggery (since we are focusing as still on mere statistical correlates) a characteristic of race (causation by existence) or is it a byproduct of all the other factors combined (causation by consequence)?

Simple answer...

Nothing to do with race but culture and attitude. Gang banging is certainly not the Australian or Swedish or Japanese American thing to do.

Good. And now we can move on to the finer points.

Attitude- that's easy to define. I see it every freaking day in the hood.

Culture... that's more iffy. What do you define as culture in this very particular example?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You have a one-track mind don't you.

I haven't disputed or discredited your statistics at all - I have no reason to. They may well be entirely accurate. Suggesting that they are wrong has never been my point.

I do however find fault in your selective cherry-picking of statistics and your limited analysis of them.

So show me otherwise? You guys have a history of playing down statistics but never ever show any of your own. Your opinion means squat until you can back it up.

Statistics alone do not make truth BY, not the broad overarching truth that you're laying claim to.

Again - I don't dispute your statistics, only your limited and biased analysis.

[Heracles 417]

Why is a black male twice as likely to rape a woman as a white man? Lets have your conclusion, not others' misrepresented statements.

Simple answer...

I don't know why and never said I did. I am merely pointing out the problem; which many in America seem to deny.

[HAL 9000 96]

You have a one-track mind don't you.

I haven't disputed or discredited your statistics at all - I have no reason to. They may well be entirely accurate. Suggesting that they are wrong has never been my point.

I do however find fault in your selective cherry-picking of statistics and your limited analysis of them.

So show me otherwise? You guys have a history of playing down statistics but never ever show any of your own. Your opinion means squat until you can back it up.

If I may I think that Pike is trying to focus on how the statistical correlates are not actual evidence for causation. He is merely trying to show you that the statistic is the result of the factor, not the other way around.

Why is a black male twice as likely to rape a woman as a white man? Lets have your conclusion, not others' misrepresented statements.

Simple answer...

I don't know why and never said I did. I am merely pointing out the problem; which many in America seem to deny.

Indeed. Many do deny it. I haven't really seen many of these deniers to be honest. Even Pike has stated that there is a problem.

But in my questioning is the crux of the problem. Why do these things happen?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You mean there's more to the picture than simply pulling up stats of who does the raping and killing and linking it to teenage fighting on a school bus?

Say it isn't so

[Heracles 417]

Statistics alone do not make truth BY, not the broad overarching truth that you're laying claim to.

Again - I don't dispute your statistics, only your limited and biased analysis.

I did not cherry pick but they are the first I saw. There are hundreds of articles and stats on crome.

Off topic, I did find the following article interesting:

A nation of bad parents: Britain's youngsters amongst world's worst for drinking, smoking and teenage pregnancy, warns the OECD

Educational achievement is low given the billions poured in by Labour, with more than one in ten youngsters aged 15 to 19 not in school, training or work. This is the fourth highest rate in the 30 countries, ahead only of Italy, Turkey and Mexico. Which is interesting considering how poorly the UK is ranked compared to Australia in both education performance and quality.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Every country has its share of social problems, BY.

I don't think there is any need to sugar coat these things.

[HAL 9000 96]

Simple is better.

[Heracles 417]

If I may I think that Pike is trying to focus on how the statistical correlates are not actual evidence for causation. He is merely trying to show you that the statistic is the result of the factor, not the other way around.

...

But in my questioning is the crux of the problem. Why do these things happen?

I am not here to fix the country's problems. That is the job of those here. However, merely discussing the "crux of the problem" does nothing to fix it. First stage of fixing any issue is actually accept there is a problem and then identify the causes. This logic is the fundamental of engineering. Even if all of us agreed with each one another and figured out the best course of action, it's pointless until the African American community itself works on the issue.

What I won't do is sit here and turn a blind eye and just become desensitized to it like others. A country is what you make it and in certain areas you guys have allowed it to turn into a shithole; allowed crime to flourish. That is not acceptable. As is not beating a kid on the way to school or raping a woman. Yeah sure you guys say you don't condone this behavior but you sure as hell have an excuse, a reason, for it. It's always something external rather than the individual.

Edited September 16, 2009 by Booyah!

[HAL 9000 96]

If I may I think that Pike is trying to focus on how the statistical correlates are not actual evidence for causation. He is merely trying to show you that the statistic is the result of the factor, not the other way around.

...

But in my questioning is the crux of the problem. Why do these things happen?

I am not here to fix the country's problems. That is the job of those here. However, merely discussing the "crux of the problem" does nothing to fix it. First stage of fixing any issue is actually accept there is a problem and then identifying the causes. This logic is the fundamental of engineering. Even if all of us agreed with each other and figured out the best course of action, it's pointless until the African American community itself works on the issue.

What I won't do is sit here and turn a blind eye and just become desensitized to it like others.

This is your home isn't it?

You're here...

Nevertheless- noone is asking you to be the Solution. Just ID the root cause(s) as you've alluded to family unit breakdowns previously. Even that has root causes unless they are characteristic properties of the people involved.

You can't discuss fixing something that you haven't properly identified... so narrow down the conclusion to more simple things. An engineer can't discuss a completed project before first breaking it down into its components. You should know this man.

To add:

Yeah sure you guys say you don't condone this behavior but you sure as hell have an excuse, a reason, for it. It's always something external rather than the individual.

Not sure what you're trying to say. An excuse is one thing. A reason is another. People don't decide to be thugs out of the blue.