Q: How Obama treat 50 million new patients with no extra doctors?

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Look I know a few seniors and one of the problems I hear is finding doctors who will take their coverage now.

I know several seniors too, and none of them have trouble finding doctors who will take their coverage.

[HAL 9000 96]

So they can accept private insurance. New graduates can willfully and skillfully do some public service. People go to medical school, and graduate, and go to residency and internship you know.

Thank you for that nugget but you forgot to mention the concept of also enlisting the Boy scouts in this effort.

(With first aide merit badges of course)

Lame.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So they can accept private insurance. New graduates can willfully and skillfully do some public service. People go to medical school, and graduate, and go to residency and internship you know.

Thank you for that nugget but you forgot to mention the concept of also enlisting the Boy scouts in this effort. (With first aide merit badges of course)

Lame.

Danno's been confronted with facts countering his perception. He doesn't react well to that.

[SpiritAlight 1]

Forgive my not reading this entire thread.

I have an answer that might ease anyone's worried mind:

Hire all those that have immigrated here and have papers that have been working as cabbies, wait staff, etc. because their professional degrees were not honoured.

What makes the U.S. think that education here is better than in a foreign country?

That is almost laughable.

[Dan J 277]

Forgive my not reading this entire thread.

I have an answer that might ease anyone's worried mind:

Hire all those that have immigrated here and have papers that have been working as cabbies, wait staff, etc. because their professional degrees were not honoured.

What makes the U.S. think that education here is better than in a foreign country?

That is almost laughable.

That kinda depends on what country/school attended. But some sort of shortened program to allow foreign doctors to get what they need to be board certified would probably be a good idea.

[rika60607 215]

Well, yeah!

US doctors waste much of their time on admin issues in connection with insurances they accept and payments not received

That's a silly argument. Our doctor to population ratio is not significantly lower than that of many other OECD nations that offer universal coverage. Are our doctors (2.4/1000) really less efficient than those in Finland (2.4/1000), the UK (2.4/1000), Canada (2.2/1000), Japan (2/1000) or Luxembourg (2.5/1000)?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Well, yeah!

US doctors waste much of their time on admin issues in connection with insurances they accept and payments not received

That's a silly argument. Our doctor to population ratio is not significantly lower than that of many other OECD nations that offer universal coverage. Are our doctors (2.4/1000) really less efficient than those in Finland (2.4/1000), the UK (2.4/1000), Canada (2.2/1000), Japan (2/1000) or Luxembourg (2.5/1000)?

Exactly. Which is why the system needs reform badly. On the insurance side as well the reimbursement scheme. We're not gonna get it all at once but we gotta start somewhere. Doing nothing isn't going to help anyone but the profiteers of the ineffective, fractured, unsustainable and broken system that costs us dearly and delivers badly.

[doodlebugg 10]

Why can't the primary care physicians be replaced somewhat by physician assistants and nurse practioners? Half the time that is who you see anyway and if there's a real problem they always confer with the physicians so it's basically the same thing. The shortage is in primary care, correct? Honestly what do they do really other than refer you to a specialist?

[Danno 1,228]

So they can accept private insurance. New graduates can willfully and skillfully do some public service. People go to medical school, and graduate, and go to residency and internship you know.

Thank you for that nugget but you forgot to mention the concept of also enlisting the Boy scouts in this effort. (With first aide merit badges of course)

Lame.

Danno's been confronted with facts countering his perception. He doesn't react well to that.

The only thing you have "confronted" the question with is the same lame answer....you are basically saying.

there are 50 million uninsured people who are not getting doctors care, you are going to give them doctors care but you say this care will come from the same pool of doctors that are now "out there".

And this is your answer?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Why can't the primary care physicians be replaced somewhat by physician assistants and nurse practioners? Half the time that is who you see anyway and if there's a real problem they always confer with the physicians so it's basically the same thing. The shortage is in primary care, correct? Honestly what do they do really other than refer you to a specialist?

There needs to be a revisit of the remuneration. The shortage of primary care physicians is a direct result of the lack of compensation for primary care services. It doesn't pay to be in that business. Hence, nobody wants to - or can afford to - go into or stay in it.

[doodlebugg 10]

Why can't the primary care physicians be replaced somewhat by physician assistants and nurse practioners? Half the time that is who you see anyway and if there's a real problem they always confer with the physicians so it's basically the same thing. The shortage is in primary care, correct? Honestly what do they do really other than refer you to a specialist?

There needs to be a revisit of the remuneration. The shortage of primary care physicians is a direct result of the lack of compensation for primary care services. It doesn't pay to be in that business. Hence, nobody wants to - or can afford to - go into or stay in it.

Right...which is why maybe that whole class of physicians should be looked at. Seriously a nurse practioner or physician's assistant could fill that role quite easily leaving the physicians to go on to other things that pay better. Basically all they are is an administrator for the hmo's writing referrals, writing scripts according to the insurance plan, etc. etc.

[rebeccajo 14]

So they can accept private insurance. New graduates can willfully and skillfully do some public service. People go to medical school, and graduate, and go to residency and internship you know.

Thank you for that nugget but you forgot to mention the concept of also enlisting the Boy scouts in this effort. (With first aide merit badges of course)

Lame.

Danno's been confronted with facts countering his perception. He doesn't react well to that.

The only thing you have "confronted" the question with is the same lame answer....you are basically saying.

there are 50 million uninsured people who are not getting doctors care, you are going to give them doctors care but you say this care will come from the same pool of doctors that are now "out there".

And this is your answer?

Danno - They had the same problem with the NHS when it was first formed. It's a legitimate question. It was a bigger issue though with the NHS, because they were actually creating new hospitals too. They needed to equip and staff them. So they needed nurses also.

They had a huge recruiting drive for nurses. My husband's father was a psychiatric nurse - he was 're-accredited' for the NHS and we have the certificate hanging in our home with a date on it shortly after the formation of the NHS.

At any rate - it was a problem for them and I suspect it would be a problem for us. What I also know from a historical perspective with the NHS is that in time, the problem sorted itself out. People were able to get in and get long overdue problems taken care of. The overall health of the population improved and things settled down.

I doubt seriously that anyone would lose their life in the US because of a temporary doctor shortage. At least no more so than lose life now because they are uninsured. This is one of those situations where the overall good needs to outweigh the temporary inconvenience.

Edited September 16, 2009 by rebeccajo

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So they can accept private insurance. New graduates can willfully and skillfully do some public service. People go to medical school, and graduate, and go to residency and internship you know.

Thank you for that nugget but you forgot to mention the concept of also enlisting the Boy scouts in this effort. (With first aide merit badges of course)

Lame.

Danno's been confronted with facts countering his perception. He doesn't react well to that.

The only thing you have "confronted" the question with is the same lame answer....you are basically saying.

there are 50 million uninsured people who are not getting doctors care, you are going to give them doctors care but you say this care will come from the same pool of doctors that are now "out there".

And this is your answer?

My answer is that we have as many physicians per capita as other OECD nations with well functioning universal health care schemes. The question then becomes if that can be done elsewhere, why can't it be done here? The only ways to rationalize the position that there aren't enough physicians to support a UHC scheme in the US is to say that either the doctors here are less efficient than they are elsewhere, that people in the US are running to the doctor more often than our OECD counterparts or a combination thereof. Is that what you're suggesting?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Doctor Shortage Will Worsen Health Bill Impact

Wednesday, September 9, 2009 1:36 PM

By: ####### Morris & Eileen McGann

The fundamental question that the Obama administration has never answered is a simple one: How can it treat 50 million new patients with no extra doctors?

A new report from the American Association of Medical Colleges underscores the urgency of this concern. The Association notes that the United States now suffers from a shortage of 15,000 doctors — a shortfall that is expected to grow to 125,000 in 15 years. And, the Association reports, if universal health insurance is passed, the shortage will grow to over 150,000 by 2025.

While the number of elderly people in the U.S. is expected to grow by 60 percent over the next decade and a half, the number of doctors will increase by only about 6 percent (Total U.S. population will rise by about 17 percent over the same period).

This shortage of doctors will, inevitably, lead to the rationing of medical care, more quickly and drastically if the Obama plan is passed. In Massachusetts, where universal health coverage was enacted under Gov. Mitt Romney in 2006, the Medical Society found that the number of patients who reported difficulty in getting care has already risen by 50 percent, up to a quarter of the patient population. The New York Times reports that "a main reason for the logjam was long waiting times for appointments."

In 1949, when President Harry Truman first proposed mandatory health insurance, he coupled his initiative with an expansion of federal aid to medical schools. But Obama makes no provision for an expansion of the pool of doctors, even as he grows the population of patients by up to 50 million.

Indeed, by cutting medical fees by dropping the reimbursement rates under Medicare, he likely will hasten the retirement of many medical professionals, worsening the underlying shortage. The Times quotes medical experts as predicting that the three years specified in the House bill as the time by which universal health insurance coverage will take effect "is not nearly enough time to build the supply of doctors needed to care for the additional tens of millions of people who would become newly insured."

Because there will not be enough doctors, nurses, and medical equipment for the massive influx of patients under the Obama plan, there will be rationing, more draconian year after year. As in Canada, it is this fundamental discrepancy between the number of patients and the population of doctors that will lead to rationing. From there, the inevitable consequence will be cutbacks in care for the elderly. Optional procedures, vital to quality life but not to survival, are likely to be limited. Hip replacements, new knees, hearing aids, and such are less and less likely to be approved. And, medical administrators will be less likely to OK surgery or expensive medical treatments for the elderly, whom they perceive to be at the end of their "quality" years.

It is the shortage of doctors, not any specific language in the text of the legislation, that makes rationing and the so-called "death panels" cited by Sarah Palin inevitable.

We all agree that everybody should have health insurance, but let us precede this step by expanding the number of doctors and nurses so that we can cover everyone without sacrificing the care for anyone. Otherwise, we are not giving 50 million new people medical care. We are consigning 300 million, and particularly the elderly among them, to long waiting lists.

Except that 10 million Canadians and 17 million illegal immigrants will have to go back to their own country for medical treatment. well, the Canadians anyway. I am afraid if this passes our hospitals and clinics here (northern Vermont) The places are full of Quebecois now that seek treatment they have to wait months for in Canada. What will our local hospitals do? What will CANADA's do when all their citizens cannot come here anymore and pay cash to avoid the national healthcare in Canada? Without Canadians there is simply no need for 4 MRI machines in Burlington VT

Edited September 16, 2009 by Gary and Alla

[rebeccajo 14]

Except that 10 million Canadians and 17 million illegal immigrants will have to go back to their own country for medical treatment. well, the Canadians anyway. I am afraid if this passes our hospitals and clinics here (northern Vermont) The places are full of Quebecois now that seek treatment they have to wait months for in Canada. What will our local hospitals do? What will CANADA's do when all their citizens cannot come here anymore and pay cash to avoid the national healthcare in Canada? Without Canadians there is simply no need for 4 MRI machines in Burlington VT

You are so full of $hit.