Ten year Green Card trouble: Our evidence is "insufficient."

[antda 13]

Hi Matt_Stevens,

I was here on VJ posting about the N-400 and I couldn't help but notice your post about the I-751. Sorry that you got an RFE, and I hope that regardless of that, your case will be approved anyways.

If this is of any help, here is what I submitted last year (2008) for my I-751 case (which was approved in 2009), which totaled 100+ pages or so:

I-751 Removal of Conditions Evidence and Information..., Is this enough evidence?

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...c=118868&hl

Application form and application/biometric fees

Cover letter

Pregnancy and Miscarriage Medical Notes

Joint Home Purchase Agreement and Maintenence Fees Letters

Joint Homeowner Insurance Declaration and Invoice

Joint Home Renovation and Repair Receipts

Joint Checking Account Bank Statements

Joint Credit Card Statements

Joint Non-Filing of Income Tax Letter/Explanation

Joint Automobile Insurance Policy Declaration and Statements

Joint Electric Bills

Joint Gas Bills

Joint Water and Septic/Sewer Invoices

Joint Telephone Invoices

Photographs during the years of our marriage

Joint Trips and Events Receipts and Tickets

Joint Mail, Subscriptions, and Junk Mail

Affidavits from individuals who have known us since conditional residency

Permanent Residence Card (both front side and back side)

Canadian Passport (with added married surname)

Marriage Certificate

The bottom line: Submit anything and everything that you and your spouse have in joint names, regardless of what it is, as you never know what the USCIS wants exactly...."Better safe than sorry!" here....

Hope this helps. Good luck on the rest of your immigration journey.

Ant

P.S. If you are in New York State, and your spouse does not drive, they can still apply for a "New York State (Non-Driver) Identification Card" at the local DMV, which works well for idenfitication purposes, is quick to obtain (a few weeks, I think), and is very minimal costs (about $30-40).

OK, this is just nuts. Up to this point everything had been so easy, so I guess it was only a matter of time before we were hit with the whip.

We filed the I751 earlier this year with all the evidence we could give them. But we just received a form stating our evidence was insufficient and that we have to send more to be processed.

What more could we send? We have sent them every possible piece of evidence asked for that we had.

They list a number of items they want, most of which we have already sent them.

Joint tax returns, Leases for our apartments in both our names, joint health insurance, joint renters insurance, joint bank accounts, joint utilities, bla bla blah.

But things they list they want we do not have.

We do not own a home.

We do not jointly own a car because Anh doesn't drive. She has no license. So how can I list her on my car insurance?

We have no kids so how can we provide birth certificates for kids that do not exist?

We do not have any loans together.

They ask for copies of our lease(s) but we provided them already!

They want affidavits written by thirds parties, but we already gave them three! All three were very clearly written and properly done.

Since late winter this year things for us have been very bad. I lost my job and we had to move from our lovely apartment to a craphole in the wall we sublet, so we have no actual lease or utilities in our own name. No renters insurance either. This all happened just prior to filing, so at the time was not an issue.

But what to do now? Honestly, there is nothing else whatsoever we can provide to them. We have already provided every piece of evidence we have. #######?!

We had zero trouble with the interview process in Saigon and you all know how crazy they are. My wife spent a lot of time in Europe and Japan, so she was well traveled and an educated girl. Since coming here she has done very well and has a pretty darned good job in NYC, which she loves. But since late winter we have been subletting and have nothing in our name. No lease, no utilities at all. Yes, we have our bank account and a savings account and our health insurance.

What should we do? Our marriage is not bull----. I can't begin to describe how angry I am at this moment.

[Matt_Stevens 5]

You cannot list a person who does not drive and has no drivers license on an insurance policy. Anh has never had a license here or in Vietnam. Never. Our insurance is via The Hartford and I worked for them for years and know the rules.

[Rings 10]

You cannot list a person who does not drive and has no drivers license on an insurance policy. Anh has never had a license here or in Vietnam. Never. Our insurance is via The Hartford and I worked for them for years and know the rules.

Fair enough, but there are ways to gather evidence. It is dire if you want to succeed this. You have to think creatively and start gathering this information before it's too late. You have to file the RFE asap.

We are trying to help you with everything we can think of here.

Edited September 15, 2009 by Rings

[antda 13]

You cannot list a person who does not drive and has no drivers license on an insurance policy. Anh has never had a license here or in Vietnam. Never. Our insurance is via The Hartford and I worked for them for years and know the rules.

True about the auto insurance...but....as I mentioned before...

Here in New York State...your spouse can get a non-driver (driver's license) identification card...

No driving test or experience needed...just pay the fee..

Now if you have a driver's license..and she has a non-driver idenfitcation driver's license...

Shows the same address....(photocopy both cards)

Hence...shows joint relationship/marriage...

Hope this helps too.

Ant

[John9981 9]

I agree, throw everything in but the kitchen sink with you and your wife's name on it. I really think that they lost/misplaced your file and they're trying to cover their a$$es and you'll be fine in the end. Your evidence was aplenty, not sure why you get RFE for any other reason. Be creative, how about letter from your church? Any kind of letter/picture/flyer/mail that indicates you two live together?

[antda 13]

P.S. By the way...here is the info about the NYS Driver's licenses...

Non-Driver Photo ID Cards

A person of any age who does not have a driver license can apply to the DMV for a non-driver photo ID card. You must provide acceptable proofs of identity and date of birth.

A non-driver photo ID card contains the same personal information, photo, signature and special protection against alteration and fraud as a photo driver license. To get more information, read the DMV brochure, Non-Driver Photo IDs -- Secure Proof for Non-Drivers.

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/license.htm

Hope this helps as well.

Ant

Edited September 15, 2009 by Ant+D+A

[Otto 83]

You cannot list a person who does not drive and has no drivers license on an insurance policy. Anh has never had a license here or in Vietnam. Never. Our insurance is via The Hartford and I worked for them for years and know the rules.

Fair enough, but there are ways to gather evidence. It is dire if you want to succeed this. You have to think creatively and start gathering this information before it's too late. You have to file the RFE asap.

We are trying to help you with everything we can think of here.

Right - I think your focus needs to be on the strongest possible evidence that you guys are living together as a married couple.

• Living together - to get back to that (groan).. that is either your ace card or it could sink your boat. It is the most basic thing any married couple has (a place where they live together).

• Co-mingling of funds - married couples usually mix their money or somehow pay bills together (your bank statements shows this - from what you've said) - you just don't have a lot of other 'typical' bills you can provide - not a huge ship-sinker but every little bit helps.

Married couples often do things together and people see them together (as a couple). Often they'll introduce each other as 'my wife' or 'my husband' - this is where strong affidavits can come in to play. Also the things you do can often bring evidence (blockbuster video memberships, gym memberships, book-of-the-month memberships, etc etc etc).

[antda 13]

I agree, throw everything in but the kitchen sink with you and your wife's name on it.

Lol...heck..I even threw in a repair bill for the bathroom toilet of our former house (not exactly the kitchen sink...but close enough...poor plumber thought I was strange when I wanted that bill in joint names... )

Ant

[Rings 10]

I am fairly certain that one of the biggest issues here is that you did not change your address with the USCIS online. You should do that and both of you should make sure your identification cards are renewed to match that address. You don't have much time to do this, but if you are adiment and you work hard to gather what you need, I think you will recover just fine. The USCIS is a paper machine, they do not understand anything that's not written down on a formal document.

[Matt_Stevens 5]

Fair enough, but there are ways to gather evidence. It is dire if you want to succeed this. You have to think creatively and start gathering this information before it's too late. You have to file the RFE asap.

We are trying to help you with everything we can think of here.

I understand that. Please don't take offense. People keep talking about the car insurance, but that is not an option.

We don't have a Blockbuster account. We had one with Netflix, my name only, and I canceled it a few months ago.

No store cards. We had a Best Buy, but canceled it early 2008. That stuff was shredded long ago. So that's out.

I did just find the install bill and work order for Time Warner Cable in NYC, 2008, with both our names on it. Other than that, I can't find anything with both of our names.

We cannot get a NY ID without some kind of utility at our current address.

I cannot drop my NC Drivers License because I will lose my NC registration and insurance. My car is kept in NC and is rarely in NYC, where insurance rates are sky high and driving conditions way beyond what I can deal with.

Anyone know a way around the ID thing?

We can easily make copies of our NC ID's, which have the same address as our old NC bank statements. That can help with proving we lived in NC as a couple.

A prominent NYC Doctor will give us an affidavit, a strong one, but who knows if who he is will matter. He knew my wife before she came to the USA. His daughter did an exchange program and stayed with Anh's family for a month about four or five years ago. All of us are very close and when we moved to NYC we stayed at their spare studio apartment (they have money) in NYC while we looked for work and an apartment. But will any of that matter?

Anything else, I don't know. I'm out of ideas. I spent the entire day going through our entire file cabinet in search of anything that can help us.

[Otto 83]

Anything else, I don't know. I'm out of ideas. I spent the entire day going through our entire file cabinet in search of anything that can help us.

No offense (because truly none is intended) but you've got an awful lot of reasons to not have a lot of things. I'm sure there are valid reasons for all of them but USCIS is not going to fool around and at some point you're going to have to draw the line in the sand and figure out exactly what you can do. (In other words, instead of reasons why you can't do this or that, come up with solutions you can do because you're going to have to.)

I'd suggest give it a rest - sleep on it, let the information you've taken in recently time to mill around a bit. It is unfortunate that we have to 'document' our relationships like this but it is simply a fact that we have to deal with (I'm sure many 'regular' couples would also have a difficult time with this) but it is not impossible.

Hang in there buddy..

[Rings 10]

No offense (because truly none is intended) but you've got an awful lot of reasons to not have a lot of things. I'm sure there are valid reasons for all of them but USCIS is not going to fool around and at some point you're going to have to draw the line in the sand and figure out exactly what you can do. (In other words, instead of reasons why you can't do this or that, come up with solutions you can do because you're going to have to.)

I'd suggest give it a rest - sleep on it, let the information you've taken in recently time to mill around a bit. It is unfortunate that we have to 'document' our relationships like this but it is simply a fact that we have to deal with (I'm sure many 'regular' couples would also have a difficult time with this) but it is not impossible.

Hang in there buddy..

Right on the money. If you want this to work out for you, then think of solutions and not the reasons why you can't do this or that. You have come this far.. go the extra mile.. because your wife is worth it.. your life is worth it. Get a blockbuster card and walk into every damn store you can if you have too.... do what must be done, take the day off work to get it done. You can apply for many things and join both your names on it. As people have said before... gym memberships, etc... get creative... not because you have hard time, but because you must if you want to proceed.

Edited September 15, 2009 by Rings

[martindart 0]

Write up a signature petition (with a header statement) like, We the undersigned, having knowledge that a true and sincere marriage exists between… and have all neighbors, brothers and sister, co-workers, mom and dad Priests, Rabi and anyone else who can hold a pen… It worked for me to reaffirm my K-1 application before USCIS Service Center Nebraska, which HCMC sent back. a couple years ago.

[D&R 0]

Lots of good info here. Remember, Anh does not have a driver's license, so car insurance is a no-go here. Also, my driver's license is still in NC because I leave my car most of the year. I hate driving in NY. Anh's photo ID is for NC. Both our ID's have the old NC address. That's not going to be helpful to us.

One complication about the sublet is this... The girl we are paying is not on the lease either. Her rich friend is because the building management requires yearly income of 150k per person. This apartment situation is really going to kill us, I think. There is simply no way to fix the problem. It looks bad to an outsider, even though it made perfect sense for us to take the place.

I sent I think three bank statements from each account. Beginning, middle, latest/last.

The USCIS person I spoke to early this year said affidavits from family were not acceptable. But this time I will have my parents have one, notarized, stating how we lived in their in-law apartment in 2007. Maybe that will help.

We do not have joint credit cards because I do not have any credit cards at this time. None. It's a bad year for us financially.

I submitted loads of pics, but can submit more recent ones this time, but I don't think they are after that in our case.

Another complication... We had all our mail sent to NC for a time because we had trouble with thieves breaking into our box. The lock and door had to be replaced on the mail receptacle and that was only fixed recently. I am beginning to wonder if they have flagged us because of the mailing address being in NC and the home address in NY.

Tonight my wife used the F word for the first time. She has never said that word. She hates that word. I was stunned to hear it come out of her mouth, but she is screaming mad that people she knows who came here just through fraud by marrying their cousin or whatever had zero trouble going all the way to citizenship and yet we are getting shafted.

Any chance of you actually renting somewhere together, just the two of you to give you a lease in your names? Just a short term one, for like 6 months? even if it's more expensive, if it means you have the evidence you need, it'll be worth it?

Edit : Just a thought... is there any chance that there could be any 'red flags' in your case/history that might give them reason to be so strict with your application?

Edited September 15, 2009 by D&R

[Matt_Stevens 5]

OK, first of all, I'm not making excuses. If something is suggested that won't work, I am going to point that out so it's no longer a talking point and we can look at something else. That's natural. And unfortunately, our case is complicated because of our current living situation.

I sent a ton of evidence earlier this year. A huge amount and never ever thought this would happen. But the nature of the letter they sent points to "gaps" and the only gap would be times we have not had a lease, like in NC. We also have no real savings, because we just don't! Life has not been easy for us. We've had some back luck.

We could not possibly rent another apartment. We have no money to put down first, last month rent and security AND we would lose the security on where we are now if we leave before March. That's a grand, just gone. What little money we have we are putting away so we can go to Vietnam in January and attend her brother's wedding. If she doesn't go, her parents will disown her. My being out of work has meant we are in dire straights. You know how bad this economy is. It's ruined us. Thank heavens Anh has a good job that is very solid.

We had no prior red flags. Nothing. Before this fiasco everything was smooth as silk. So smooth that some here were in shock at how easy it was for us. The timing of all of this is very bad. If somehow this goes very wrong, we could end up in a spot where if Anh leaves to see her brother get married, she'll not be allowed back into the country. The fact that this is happening has shattered any love Anh had for America. She thinks her home communist government is fairer and better right now and I don't blame her.

As for more evidence...

Now we did try a Gym out for a few weeks and have that application. But we canceled the membership because it was too expensive. This was in August. We've got all the paperwork, so that is something involving our current address. It's all we've got right now, other than the next bank statement that will come and the next Verizon bill.

We'll have to go to Blockbuster and sign up and get cards with our address. Silly, but it's something, as you say.

What's funny is we sent a picture of Anh with Mayor Bloomberg amongst the evidence. She met him at a function where she was there as part of a Vietnamese cultural dance troop. How many cheaters would go and meet the mayor? Unreal. Maybe I can have all the members of the dance troop sign an affidavit on our behalf? We hang out with those gals all the time.

The receipt book for our rent payment is a good idea. I'll do that today and have Anna sign back dated receipts for us.

Edited September 15, 2009 by Matt_Stevens