a QUICK I-134 question (how many dependents???)

[Josh-and-Leona 0]

With my co-sponsor (dad) ive got me, my little brother, and my sister listed on their 2008 tax transcripts.

My mother is employed and they do their taxes jointly. Should I still write her as "partly depedent" on the co-sponsors I-134?

My sister is now dependent on her self, since she has anchored a job, should i still write her as "wholly dependent" on my co-sponsors i-134, since she was on the latest tax transcripts?

Now on MY i-134 form is it correct that i list myself AND my fiancee as wholly dependent (even though i am listed on my co-sponsers tax transcripts)....? pretty confused about this one.

Having recieved the NOA2 almost a month and a half ago I NEED to send this thing out ASAP so my fiancee can turn in her checklist. A Thanks.

[Josh-and-Leona 0]

please does anyone know what i should put down for the dependents/not dependents on the i-134's? i have looked at the example forms but they not apply to a co-sponsor situation. i would be eternally grateful for some help, i really need to send this thing out.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

The problem is that there is no longer any clear guidance in the I-134 instructions, and hasn't been since the I-134 was replaced by the I-864 for immigration purposes. The I-864 instructions aren't any help because the form isn't organized the same way.

A good rule of thumb is that anyone listed as a dependent on the tax return is WHOLLY dependent. Anyone who the sponsor is required by court order to provide support for (child support, for example) is WHOLLY dependent, even if the sponsor can't claim them as dependents on the tax return. Anyone who the sponsor voluntarily provides support for (Grandma lives in the spare bedroom, perhaps? ) is PARTIALLY dependent.

Note that a CO might consider someone partially or wholly dependent if they live in the same house, even if the sponsor doesn't actually spend any money on them. The consulate in New Delhi, for example, requires an I-134 sponsor to demonstrate they can support everyone who lives in the same house. The bottom line is that the consular officer gets to make a judgment call, so it's better to err on the side of caution and list everyone who might even remotely be construed as a dependent, especially if there's documents showing they exist. If you have to not count someone in order to qualify, and there's a chance the consulate might count them, then you might need a better qualified co-sponsor.

[Anh map 2,098]

Fill out the forms for the current 2009 situation.

I assume that dad will not claim you for 09. You said your sister now has a job. Will she be claimed by your dad for 09? Mom wouldn't be listed on Dad's form if she's employed. That leaves your brother.

For your form you do not list any dependents.

Go Heels!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

With my co-sponsor (dad) ive got me, my little brother, and my sister listed on their 2008 tax transcripts.

My mother is employed and they do their taxes jointly. Should I still write her as "partly depedent" on the co-sponsors I-134?

My sister is now dependent on her self, since she has anchored a job, should i still write her as "wholly dependent" on my co-sponsors i-134, since she was on the latest tax transcripts?

Now on MY i-134 form is it correct that i list myself AND my fiancee as wholly dependent (even though i am listed on my co-sponsers tax transcripts)....? pretty confused about this one.

Having recieved the NOA2 almost a month and a half ago I NEED to send this thing out ASAP so my fiancee can turn in her checklist. A Thanks.

YOU do not count on your father's I-134. YOU count on your own I-134.

Your mother is employed and is therefore not dependent on your father. If she did not work, she would be a dependent.

Your sister and breother DO count.

Your father's family size is FOUR (him, brother, sister, fiancee)

Yor family size is TWO (you and fiancee)

Your father will attach a copy of his joint tax return but claim only HIS income on the I-134 and attach only HIS w-2s. He also needs to attach proof of citizenship or permanent residency

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Fill out the forms for the current 2009 situation.

I assume that dad will not claim you for 09. You said your sister now has a job. Will she be claimed by your dad for 09? Mom wouldn't be listed on Dad's form if she's employed. That leaves your brother.

For your form you do not list any dependents.

Go Heels!

Anh Map makes a good point. I did not catch the part about your sister. If there will be any change in dependents for the 2009 tax year, he should attach an expanation of that. If your sister will no longer be claimed on his tax return for this year, then he should so state.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The problem is that there is no longer any clear guidance in the I-134 instructions, and hasn't been since the I-134 was replaced by the I-864 for immigration purposes. The I-864 instructions aren't any help because the form isn't organized the same way.

A good rule of thumb is that anyone listed as a dependent on the tax return is WHOLLY dependent. Anyone who the sponsor is required by court order to provide support for (child support, for example) is WHOLLY dependent, even if the sponsor can't claim them as dependents on the tax return. Anyone who the sponsor voluntarily provides support for (Grandma lives in the spare bedroom, perhaps? ) is PARTIALLY dependent.

Note that a CO might consider someone partially or wholly dependent if they live in the same house, even if the sponsor doesn't actually spend any money on them. The consulate in New Delhi, for example, requires an I-134 sponsor to demonstrate they can support everyone who lives in the same house. The bottom line is that the consular officer gets to make a judgment call, so it's better to err on the side of caution and list everyone who might even remotely be construed as a dependent, especially if there's documents showing they exist. If you have to not count someone in order to qualify, and there's a chance the consulate might count them, then you might need a better qualified co-sponsor.

And Jim is correct in that consulates can consider whtever they want, there are no hard and fast rules for the I-134. It is perfectly reasonable and plausible to count family size as stated above, and certainly not fraudulent or misrepresenting. However, look at worst case scenarios, if your father had a family size of 6 would he still qualify? If so, then no worries. Go with 3 (or 4) for him and 2 for you and let the consulate change it if they will, there is nothing you can do about that anyway.

[Josh-and-Leona 0]

"YOU do not count on your father's I-134. YOU count on your own I-134."

Thanks so much for the replies, my father makes much above the poverty level so household # I am less concerned about and more about just getting this right.

I am however still confused on two things.

I AM listed as a dependent on my fathers last tax returns and am currently unemployed, as of yet i dont know if I will or will not be still listed as a dependent in I-134 as I am attendiing grad school soon. In this situation would I not list myself as a wholly dependent on his I 134?

Should I list my fiancee as a WHOLLY dependent on my co-sponsers I-134? There are only three places to list who the dependents are, should i just create an additional attachment sheet to list the names on?

Lastly, if his gross income is enough to cover it all should I just leave the other sectins such as (health care insurance, property tax amount ect.. blank or with N/A? Thank You all SOO much

Edited September 12, 2009 by Josh-and-Leona

[Anh map 2,098]

Whomever Dad will claim for 09 should be listed on his form. As Jim and Gary said, listing all that were on his 08 tax return is the safest way to go. If Dad's income is well above the I-864P income requirement for his household size then you don't have anything to sweat. And there is no reason for him to list other assets.

For your I-134 follow the example form shown here on VJ. VJ I-134 Example Unless you are actually supplying your fiance(e) with enough to feed, clothe, and house she is not your dependent.

The I-134 is short lived document that you will replace with the I-864 after marraige when your then spouse adjusts status. The instructions are much clearer and the sponsor's responsibility is long term. Bes ure that Dad is comfortable with his commitment for this form if you will be asking him to co-sponsor at that time.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Anh map

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

"YOU do not count on your father's I-134. YOU count on your own I-134."

Thanks so much for the replies, my father makes much above the poverty level so household # I am less concerned about and more about just getting this right.

I am however still confused on two things.

I AM listed as a dependent on my fathers last tax returns and am currently unemployed, as of yet i dont know if I will or will not be still listed as a dependent in I-134 as I am attendiing grad school soon. In this situation would I not list myself as a wholly dependent on his I 134?

Should I list my fiancee as a WHOLLY dependent on my co-sponsers I-134? There are only three places to list who the dependents are, should i just create an additional attachment sheet to list the names on?

Lastly, if his gross income is enough to cover it all should I just leave the other sectins such as (health care insurance, property tax amount ect.. blank or with N/A? Thank You all SOO much

If your father is supporting you completely then he should list you as wholly dependent, especially if he will be claiming you as a dependent again for this year's taxes.

You DON'T LIST YOUR FIANCE! Your fiance is already included in section 3 of the affidavit. The consular officer will automatically add him when figuring out the household size.

There is nothing about expenses like health care insurance or property taxes on the I-134. There ARE assets, like life insurance and real estate. These don't have to be listed if the income alone is enough to qualify. Leave those sections blank.

Also, it's not gross income they go by - it's total income. This is line 22 on the 1040 form. For some people, especially self employed, this may be substantially less than their gross income because it takes into account business expenses.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

"YOU do not count on your father's I-134. YOU count on your own I-134."

Thanks so much for the replies, my father makes much above the poverty level so household # I am less concerned about and more about just getting this right.

I am however still confused on two things.

I AM listed as a dependent on my fathers last tax returns and am currently unemployed, as of yet i dont know if I will or will not be still listed as a dependent in I-134 as I am attendiing grad school soon. In this situation would I not list myself as a wholly dependent on his I 134?

Should I list my fiancee as a WHOLLY dependent on my co-sponsers I-134? There are only three places to list who the dependents are, should i just create an additional attachment sheet to list the names on?

Lastly, if his gross income is enough to cover it all should I just leave the other sectins such as (health care insurance, property tax amount ect.. blank or with N/A? Thank You all SOO much

If your father is supporting you completely then he should list you as wholly dependent, especially if he will be claiming you as a dependent again for this year's taxes.

You DON'T LIST YOUR FIANCE! Your fiance is already included in section 3 of the affidavit. The consular officer will automatically add him when figuring out the household size.

There is nothing about expenses like health care insurance or property taxes on the I-134. There ARE assets, like life insurance and real estate. These don't have to be listed if the income alone is enough to qualify. Leave those sections blank.

Also, it's not gross income they go by - it's total income. This is line 22 on the 1040 form. For some people, especially self employed, this may be substantially less than their gross income because it takes into account business expenses.

And this was supposed to be a quick question. LOL

Jim is right, your fiancee is included in your family size by default, she does not need to be listed, my bad for not being clear.

The USC sponsor (and you ARE the sponsor) cannot be counted twice in the process. Even if you were (or are) a dependent on your father's tax return and even if you do not have income currently. You must file an I-134 and you MUST count yourself on that form. There is no prohibition against a USC collecting welfare, now or ever, and neither you nor your father would ver have to re-imburse the government if YOU collected welfare, only your fiancee. If she collects welfare and YOU have no income then they have to have someone to go after that has sufficient income for them to garnish..Hello Daddy!

However as Anh Map points out the I-134 is so unregulated and so nebulous in meaning (especially in countries such as Ireland) that it is basically a "cover letter", as Jim likes to say, for what is attached behind it. The decision for the visa is a subjective one made by the consulate which they know is for a very short period of time. It sounds as though you do not have a problem. I would still attach a sheet explaining any differences between 2008 tax return and 2009 actual dependents. people's lives and family situations change and are not always the same in September 2009 as they were in December 2008. The income tax return is history, the I-134 is "present tense"

And you are getting a couple of the best people to answer your questions on this issue, thanks to Jim and Anh Map.

[Josh-and-Leona 0]

Okay, i think i am drilling this down to the tee. Thank you so much for your time and expertise, Anh Map, Jim, & Gary. I really cannot express how valuable this information is to me. After this whole process this is just the sort of thing that i do not want to screw up. Cheers.

Go Heels!

Edited September 12, 2009 by Josh-and-Leona