Application 'suspended' at interview today in London :-(

[AdamF 1]

Hi,

I went for my K1 interview today in London and my application was suspended

Reason being I need to supply,

1) Long version of birth certificate

2) I-134

I now have point (1) covered and am collecting it on Tuesday. I'm willing to admit that was a miss on my part. But point (2) has be confused and worried.

I interpretted this page on the London Embassy web site as saying you do not need I-134 if you are self-sponsoring:

http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_new/visa/iv/faffidavit.html

Therefore I supplied plenty of detail about my finances, but none about my fiancee (US citizen). When I asked the interviewer about this, she simply said that 'she wished all the departments were on the same page and she needs to see it'.

My fiancee is a student with a part-time job, making next to no money with no savings.

The I-134 or it's instructions don't make any reference to specific income levels, but everywhere on this forum seems to point to the requirement being the same as the I-864 - i.e. 125% of the poverty guideline. Is this correct?

If it is correct and my fiancee doesn't meet 125% , is there anything we can do? The London Embassy web site doesn't make any mention of using co-sponsors and nor do the official forms - are they allowed? Can anyone point out an official source that confirms/denies this?

I feel like we're so close but it's all in danger of unravelling very quickly

Thanks in advance,

Adam

[Cuchita 1]

In the USCIS.gov webpage, in the forms section they explain in detail, what docs. go with each form, and for Affidavits they explain how to determine if you need co-sponsor.

If the embassy sent you a package requesting what your fiance and you had to submitt for interview, then you both were supposed to figure out how to fill out forms and what to attach, that's why many people use lawyers, but many lucky others find VJ .

Good luck!

[AdamF 1]

In the USCIS.gov webpage, in the forms section they explain in detail, what docs. go with each form, and for Affidavits they explain how to determine if you need co-sponsor.

If the embassy sent you a package requesting what your fiance and you had to submitt for interview, then you both were supposed to figure out how to fill out forms and what to attach, that's why many people use lawyers, but many lucky others find VJ .

Good luck!

I don't consider myself to be stupid, if that's what you are implying?

I did read the USCIS web site, the I-134 form (and the instructions for it) and searched the forum before posting, but I posted because I couldn't find the answer to my questions.

The London Embassy directs you to a web page detailing what to bring to the interview. the page says,

"Evidence of Support

All applicants are required to establish that they will not become a public charge in the United States. Please follow this link for detailed information."

The second link then goes on to say,

"An applicant for K-1 or K-3 visa may generally satisfy the requirement of the law by the presentation of documentary evidence establishing that:

1. the applicant has, or will have in the U.S. personal funds sufficient to provide support for the applicant and dependent family members, if any, or sufficient to provide support until suitable employment is located;

2. the applicant has arranged employment in the U.S. that will provide an adequate income for the applicant and dependent family members;

3. relatives or friends in the U.S. will assure the applicant's support; or

4. a combination of the above circumstances"

All a bit of a moot point anyway, since the interviewer has said I require the form. I'm just looking for some assistance with my questions

When looking at the I-134 on the The forms section of the USCIS.gov web site (here: I-134 ) it does not "explain how to determine if you need co-sponsor". Neither does the PDF form, or the PDF instructions for completing the form.

Please can you give me some more clues as to where to find the information I'm after?

Thansk again,

Adam

[Stephen + Elisha 92]

Adam, I would contact the embassy again and ask to speak to the section chief.

According to the State Department Foreign Affairs Manual, the I-134 is not required for the K-1 visa but may be asked for if the consular officer deems it useful. From the links you've posted, it sounds like the consular policy at London is the same.

It sounds as if one of two things happened:

1. You did not establish to the consular officer's satisfaction that you would not become a public charge (i.e., didn't demonstrate enough assets and/or sustained income that would continue after entry to the US). This should have been explained to you if it were the case.
2. The officer you got made a unilateral decision that an I-134 is required. Since this appears to be contrary to the FAM and London policy, a chat with the section chief is in order.

Either way, it sounds like you were given short shrift. Contact the IV section at the embassy and ask to speak to the section chief.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Adam, I would contact the embassy again and ask to speak to the section chief.

According to the State Department Foreign Affairs Manual, the I-134 is not required for the K-1 visa but may be asked for if the consular officer deems it useful. From the links you've posted, it sounds like the consular policy at London is the same.

It sounds as if one of two things happened:

1. You did not establish to the consular officer's satisfaction that you would not become a public charge (i.e., didn't demonstrate enough assets and/or sustained income that would continue after entry to the US). This should have been explained to you if it were the case.
2. The officer you got made a unilateral decision that an I-134 is required. Since this appears to be contrary to the FAM and London policy, a chat with the section chief is in order.

Either way, it sounds like you were given short shrift. Contact the IV section at the embassy and ask to speak to the section chief.

9 FAM 40.41 leaves it up to the discretion of the consular officer. Unlike many consulates, London apparently treats K visas strictly as non-immigrant visas. Many other consulates would never issue a K visa without an affidavit of support, since the K visa WILL lead to immigration. Once a K visa holder is in the US and applies for the AOS they will NOT be allowed to self sponsor unless they ALSO become a self-petitioner under VAWA. Otherwise, the USC who petitioned for them will be their primary sponsor. The immigrant's income and assets MAY be used to help their USC sponsor meet the minimum income/asset requirements, but the immigrant can't be their own primary sponsor if their AOS is based on the petition of a USC or LPR relative.

It would be difficult for a CO to make a determination if a beneficiary's income and assets would be enough to help his USC sponsor qualify when it comes time to file the I-864 without knowing something about the financial situation of the USC sponsor. For example, without knowing the USC sponsor's household size, they couldn't even determine what threshold needed to be met. If the beneficiary has sufficient income and assets on their own to meet the minimum requirements, then an I-134 (or other acceptable affidavit) that provided only household size and zero income/assets would probably be enough. At the very least, it would tell the CO that the USC sponsor was aware of their obligations under the INA.

Adam, if the only people in your US household will be you and your new wife, then the minimum income requirements are currently $18,212. If you have 3X this amount in assets (cash, or property that can be liquidated within 12 months without significant hardship or penalty) then you might be able to get the CO to issue the visa without a co-sponsor once you get a signed I-134 from your fiancee, even if the I-134 lists no income or assets. There are no strict rules or requirements for the I-134 because it's up to the discretion of the CO, since they are trying to determine if you will satisfy the requirements AFTER you arrive in the US, marry your fiancee, and apply for AOS. There ARE strict rules for the I-864, which your wife will have to sign when you apply for AOS, and those are the rules most consulates apply to the I-134.

[Stephen + Elisha 92]

9 FAM 40.41 leaves it up to the discretion of the consular officer. Unlike many consulates, London apparently treats K visas strictly as non-immigrant visas. Many other consulates would never issue a K visa without an affidavit of support, since the K visa WILL lead to immigration. Once a K visa holder is in the US and applies for the AOS they will NOT be allowed to self sponsor unless they ALSO become a self-petitioner under VAWA. Otherwise, the USC who petitioned for them will be their primary sponsor. The immigrant's income and assets MAY be used to help their USC sponsor meet the minimum income/asset requirements, but the immigrant can't be their own primary sponsor if their AOS is based on the petition of a USC or LPR relative.

It would be difficult for a CO to make a determination if a beneficiary's income and assets would be enough to help his USC sponsor qualify when it comes time to file the I-864 without knowing something about the financial situation of the USC sponsor. For example, without knowing the USC sponsor's household size, they couldn't even determine what threshold needed to be met. If the beneficiary has sufficient income and assets on their own to meet the minimum requirements, then an I-134 (or other acceptable affidavit) that provided only household size and zero income/assets would probably be enough. At the very least, it would tell the CO that the USC sponsor was aware of their obligations under the INA.

Adam, if the only people in your US household will be you and your new wife, then the minimum income requirements are currently $18,212. If you have 3X this amount in assets (cash, or property that can be liquidated within 12 months without significant hardship or penalty) then you might be able to get the CO to issue the visa without a co-sponsor once you get a signed I-134 from your fiancee, even if the I-134 lists no income or assets. There are no strict rules or requirements for the I-134 because it's up to the discretion of the CO, since they are trying to determine if you will satisfy the requirements AFTER you arrive in the US, marry your fiancee, and apply for AOS. There ARE strict rules for the I-864, which your wife will have to sign when you apply for AOS, and those are the rules most consulates apply to the I-134.

Jim, as usual, your advice is spot on.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Hi,

I went for my K1 interview today in London and my application was suspended

Reason being I need to supply,

1) Long version of birth certificate

2) I-134

I now have point (1) covered and am collecting it on Tuesday. I'm willing to admit that was a miss on my part. But point (2) has be confused and worried.

I interpretted this page on the London Embassy web site as saying you do not need I-134 if you are self-sponsoring:

http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_new/visa/iv/faffidavit.html

Therefore I supplied plenty of detail about my finances, but none about my fiancee (US citizen). When I asked the interviewer about this, she simply said that 'she wished all the departments were on the same page and she needs to see it'.

My fiancee is a student with a part-time job, making next to no money with no savings.

The I-134 or it's instructions don't make any reference to specific income levels, but everywhere on this forum seems to point to the requirement being the same as the I-864 - i.e. 125% of the poverty guideline. Is this correct?

If it is correct and my fiancee doesn't meet 125% , is there anything we can do? The London Embassy web site doesn't make any mention of using co-sponsors and nor do the official forms - are they allowed? Can anyone point out an official source that confirms/denies this?

I feel like we're so close but it's all in danger of unravelling very quickly

Thanks in advance,

Adam

Whether self sposoring or not, your USC finacee needs to submit an I-134. They may not use it as being adequate (and they do not have to accept you as self sponsoring) but they need it in any case. Get it, give it to them, and hope for the best. I would also line a co-sponsor and get them to do an I-134 also. You are depending on a lot of things that simply do not have to be accepted by the consulate rather than going in loaded for bear and having more than needed. Not a good idea. The co-sponsor will also have to include evidence of being a US citizen or legal permanent resident and their income must be adequate to support theiur own family AND you. If you go into this half-cocked do not be surprised if you fail. There is no such thing as "too much gun"

[AdamF 1]

Hi all,

Just to close out on this, after submitting the I-134 (along with a co-sponsor) my visa was approved.

To those who offered advice, clarification and support, thank you :-)

As an aside, does anyone know the reasoning behind why there are no hard and fast rules behind the I-134? It would make peoples lives a lot easier if they clarified the position surrounding when it is required (or not), whether co-sponsors are accepted, what the minimum income requirements are, etc. Why do they choose to make it a consular issue? Surely the same rules/benchmarks should apply to all?

The whole process was relatively straightforward thanks to the clear outlining of what exactly is required at each stage of the application...until I hit the I-134, at which point it just seemed to become a minefield of vagueness.

Thanks,

Adam

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Hi all,

Just to close out on this, after submitting the I-134 (along with a co-sponsor) my visa was approved.

To those who offered advice, clarification and support, thank you :-)

As an aside, does anyone know the reasoning behind why there are no hard and fast rules behind the I-134? It would make peoples lives a lot easier if they clarified the position surrounding when it is required (or not), whether co-sponsors are accepted, what the minimum income requirements are, etc. Why do they choose to make it a consular issue? Surely the same rules/benchmarks should apply to all?

The whole process was relatively straightforward thanks to the clear outlining of what exactly is required at each stage of the application...until I hit the I-134, at which point it just seemed to become a minefield of vagueness.

Thanks,

Adam

Yes, I can offer some clarification, though not particular to your case, per se. There are basically two vague areas in this process. One is the affidavit of support, the other is "proof of ongoing relationship". (we could also add this to the AOS and Lifting of of Conditions procedures) In either case, if there were "hard and fast" rules, immigration frauds would simply meet whatever rules were hard and fast and get a pass into the country. By leaving some things to the discretion of the consulate officer, it allows them to sort out wheat from chaff...or one would hope. It also leaves the door open for mistakes, which unfortunately become your problem to fix. On the one hand, I wish there were hard and fast rules, on the other hand, I understand where any such rules would be simple to circumvent by frauds. USCIS in the petition process has "hard and fast" rules which are equally applied in approving a petition, regardless of the country of the beneficiary. But an approved petition does not a visa make. It merely says your fiancee is eligible to request that you be allowed to apply for a visa. It is the basis by which you apply. It is asking permission to ask permission, basically. No harm no foul and the requirements are pretty straight forward. If there were "hard and fast" rules there would be no need for interviews and you could just mail everything in. The interview places a human screener in the process that can make a judgement call. It is not perfect by any means.

That said, London is one of the few consulates that allow, or even consider, self sponsoring for K-1 applicants. I have been given some reasons for this by people that should know, but you will never find it in writing, and therefore I cannot confirm it. Similarity in education and language are big reasons. A working age applicant from England with a good education and marketable skills has a much better chance of getting good employment in the US than someone from a country who does not speak English or very little. UK is also a country with a very low incidence of fraud. If this were not true the VWP would not extend to your country, for which you should feel very fortunate. I have also heard of other applicants self sponsoring from Australia and Canada, though it is fairly unusual in any case. Unfortunately it did not work for you for whatever reason. I would never suggest anyone "count" on self sponsoring, it just is not common enough to "plan on". The State Department rules allow a lot of latitude to the consulates, the consulates allow a lot of latitude in their rules (some of them anyway) and the result varies across the board. Bangkok will not allow co-sponsors for K-1s...period. London allows some to co-sponsor. Go figure. You have child in most consulates...bring them along. You have a child in Viet Nam or China? No way without DNA tests. It all has to do with local conditions and experiences. The ultimate reason is to assure that you will not become a public charge and if you do that there is a responsible party.

Glad you got it sorted out and good luck

[K & K 0]

Hi all,

Just to close out on this, after submitting the I-134 (along with a co-sponsor) my visa was approved.

To those who offered advice, clarification and support, thank you :-)

As an aside, does anyone know the reasoning behind why there are no hard and fast rules behind the I-134? It would make peoples lives a lot easier if they clarified the position surrounding when it is required (or not), whether co-sponsors are accepted, what the minimum income requirements are, etc. Why do they choose to make it a consular issue? Surely the same rules/benchmarks should apply to all?

The whole process was relatively straightforward thanks to the clear outlining of what exactly is required at each stage of the application...until I hit the I-134, at which point it just seemed to become a minefield of vagueness.

Thanks,

Adam

Congrats

Edited November 26, 2009 by K & K