Who or what is Terrorism??

[Ban Hammer 13,678]

anyone held - like a prisoner - is to be treated like a guest. in the case of a hostage, they are taken for political gain and in many cases executed.

yes

so you still thinking i'm a dumb redneck?

[almaty 19]

[Ban Hammer 13,678]

you still reading up on that egg, almaty?

[Veiled Princess 1]

I don't remember calling you a dumb redneck... a pig and a donkey is all I am guilty of calling you today.... no promises for tomorrow

[mawilson 2,133]

...next time you ask a blind man how he knows when he's done wiping after he takes a $hit...

Oh man.....how does he know, for real?

[iceyspots 0]

Not saying it is justifiable - just that the roots of this phenomenon don't begin and end with the terrorists. People tend to forget that. Rather like addressing the symptoms rather than the cause.

Suicide bombers are, in the main, uneducated people who, turn to a bastardised form of religion as a way of giving purpose to their lives. Do you wonder perhaps why it is that the leaders (the Bin Laden's, Al Zarqawis) aren't blowing themselves up all over the shop?

For the same reason that George Dubya and all the congresspeople don't serve in the war in Iraq, and their children that are excluded as well.

[Bosco 1]

compared to israeli ones?

maybe this will explain why kids get killed in the middle east. human shields.......

or maybe this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3650791.stm

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Not saying it is justifiable - just that the roots of this phenomenon don't begin and end with the terrorists. People tend to forget that. Rather like addressing the symptoms rather than the cause.

Suicide bombers are, in the main, uneducated people who, turn to a bastardised form of religion as a way of giving purpose to their lives. Do you wonder perhaps why it is that the leaders (the Bin Laden's, Al Zarqawis) aren't blowing themselves up all over the shop?

For the same reason that George Dubya and all the congresspeople don't serve in the war in Iraq, and their children that are excluded as well.

Pretty much.

[Boiler 46,322]

Source: Guardian - impeccable left wing credentials.

In August, 2001, the American television channel CBS aired an interview with a Hamas activist Muhammad Abu Wardeh, who recruited terrorists for suicide bombings in Israel. Abu Wardeh was quoted as saying: "I described to him how God would compensate the martyr for sacrificing his life for his land. If you become a martyr, God will give you 70 virgins, 70 wives and everlasting happiness." Wardeh was in fact shortchanging his recruits since the rewards in Paradise for martyrs was 72 virgins. But I am running ahead of things .

Since September 11, news stories have repeated the story of suicide bombers and their heavenly rewards, and equally Muslim scholars and Western apologists of Islam have repeated that suicide is forbidden in Islam. Suicide (qatlu nafsi-hi) is not referred to in the Koran but is indeed forbidden in the Traditions (Hadith in Arabic), which are the collected sayings and doings attributed to the Prophet and traced back to him through a series of putatively trustworthy witnesses. They include what was done in his presence that he did not forbid, and even the authoritative sayings and doings of his companions.

But the Hamas spokesman correctly uses the word martyr (shahid) and not suicide bomber, since those who blow themselves up almost daily in Israel and those who died on September 11 were dying in the noblest of all causes, Jihad, which is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Koran and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined for the purpose of advancing Islam. While suicide is forbidden, martyrdom is everywhere praised, welcomed, and urged: "By the Being in Whose Hand is my life, I love that I should be killed in the way of Allah; then I should be brought back to life and be killed again in His way..."; "The Prophet said, 'Nobody who enters Paradise will ever like to return to this world even if he were offered everything, except the martyr who will desire to return to this world and be killed 10 times for the sake of the great honour that has been bestowed upon him'." [sahih Muslim, chapters 781, 782, The Merit of Jihad and the Merit of Martyrdom.]

What of the rewards in paradise? The Islamic paradise is described in great sensual detail in the Koran and the Traditions; for instance, Koran sura 56 verses 12 -40 ; sura 55 verses 54-56 ; sura 76 verses 12-22. I shall quote the celebrated Penguin translation by NJ Dawood of sura 56 verses 12- 39: "They shall recline on jewelled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine (that will neither pain their heads nor take away their reason); with fruits of their own choice and flesh of fowls that they relish. And theirs shall be the dark-eyed houris, chaste as hidden pearls: a guerdon for their deeds... We created the houris and made them virgins, loving companions for those on the right hand..."

One should note that most translations, even those by Muslims themselves such as A Yusuf Ali, and the British Muslim Marmaduke Pickthall, translate the Arabic (plural) word Abkarun as virgins, as do well-known lexicons such the one by John Penrice. I emphasise this fact since many pudic and embarrassed Muslims claim there has been a mistranslation, that "virgins" should be replaced by "angels". In sura 55 verses 72-74, Dawood translates the Arabic word " hur " as "virgins", and the context makes clear that virgin is the appropriate translation: "Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents (which of your Lord's blessings would you deny?) whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched before." The word hur occurs four times in the Koran and is usually translated as a "maiden with dark eyes".

Two points need to be noted. First, there is no mention anywhere in the Koran of the actual number of virgins available in paradise, and second, the dark-eyed damsels are available for all Muslims, not just martyrs. It is in the Islamic Traditions that we find the 72 virgins in heaven specified: in a Hadith (Islamic Tradition) collected by Al-Tirmidhi (died 892 CE [common era*]) in the Book of Sunan (volume IV, chapters on The Features of Paradise as described by the Messenger of Allah [Prophet Muhammad], chapter 21, About the Smallest Reward for the People of Paradise, (Hadith 2687). The same hadith is also quoted by Ibn Kathir (died 1373 CE ) in his Koranic commentary (Tafsir) of Surah Al-Rahman (55), verse 72: "The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: 'The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a [Yemen]'."

Modern apologists of Islam try to downplay the evident materialism and sexual implications of such descriptions, but, as the Encyclopaedia of Islam says, even orthodox Muslim theologians such as al Ghazali (died 1111 CE) and Al-Ash'ari (died 935 CE) have "admitted sensual pleasures into paradise". The sensual pleasures are graphically elaborated by Al-Suyuti (died 1505 ), Koranic commentator and polymath. He wrote: "Each time we sleep with a houri we find her virgin. Besides, the ####### of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal; the sensation that you feel each time you make love is utterly delicious and out of this world and were you to experience it in this world you would faint. Each chosen one [ie Muslim] will marry seventy [sic] houris, besides the women he married on earth, and all will have appetising vaginas."

One of the reasons Nietzsche hated Christianity was that it "made something unclean out of sexuality", whereas Islam, many would argue, was sex-positive. One cannot imagine any of the Church fathers writing ecstatically of heavenly sex as al-Suyuti did, with the possible exception of St Augustine before his conversion. But surely to call Islam sex-positive is to insult all Muslim women, for sex is seen entirely from the male point of view; women's sexuality is admitted but seen as something to be feared, repressed, and a work of the devil.

Scholars have long pointed out that these images are clearly drawn pictures and must have been inspired by the art of painting. Muhammad, or whoever is responsible for the descriptions, may well have seen Christian miniatures or mosaics representing the gardens of paradise and has interpreted the figures of angels rather literally as those of young men and young women. A further textual influence on the imagery found in the Koran is the work of Ephrem the Syrian [306-373 CE], Hymns on Paradise, written in Syriac, an Aramaic dialect and the language of Eastern Christianity, and a Semitic language closely related to Hebrew and Arabic.

This naturally leads to the most fascinating book ever written on the language of the Koran, and if proved to be correct in its main thesis, probably the most important book ever written on the Koran. Christoph Luxenberg's book, Die Syro-Aramaische Lesart des Koran, available only in German, came out just over a year ago, but has already had an enthusiastic reception, particularly among those scholars with a knowledge of several Semitic languages at Princeton, Yale, Berlin, Potsdam, Erlangen, Aix-en-Provence, and the Oriental Institute in Beirut.

Luxenberg tries to show that many obscurities of the Koran disappear if we read certain words as being Syriac and not Arabic. We cannot go into the technical details of his methodology but it allows Luxenberg, to the probable horror of all Muslim males dreaming of sexual bliss in the Muslim hereafter, to conjure away the wide-eyed houris promised to the faithful in suras XLIV.54; LII.20, LV.72, and LVI.22. Luxenberg 's new analysis, leaning on the Hymns of Ephrem the Syrian, yields "white raisins" of "crystal clarity" rather than doe-eyed, and ever willing virgins - the houris. Luxenberg claims that the context makes it clear that it is food and drink that is being offerred, and not unsullied maidens or houris.

In Syriac, the word hur is a feminine plural adjective meaning white, with the word "raisin" understood implicitly. Similarly, the immortal, pearl-like ephebes or youths of suras such as LXXVI.19 are really a misreading of a Syriac expression meaning chilled raisins (or drinks) that the just will have the pleasure of tasting in contrast to the boiling drinks promised the unfaithful and damned.

As Luxenberg's work has only recently been published we must await its scholarly assessment before we can pass any judgements. But if his analysis is correct then suicide bombers, or rather prospective martyrs, would do well to abandon their culture of death, and instead concentrate on getting laid 72 times in this world, unless of course they would really prefer chilled or white raisins, according to their taste, in the next.

[Boiler 46,322]

Not saying it is justifiable - just that the roots of this phenomenon don't begin and end with the terrorists. People tend to forget that. Rather like addressing the symptoms rather than the cause.

Suicide bombers are, in the main, uneducated people who, turn to a bastardised form of religion as a way of giving purpose to their lives. Do you wonder perhaps why it is that the leaders (the Bin Laden's, Al Zarqawis) aren't blowing themselves up all over the shop?

For the same reason that George Dubya and all the congresspeople don't serve in the war in Iraq, and their children that are excluded as well.

Pretty much.

Unlike may other Political elites, Members of Congress have a long history of their families avoiding Military service, if memory serves me correctly none served during the American Civil War. And I think only one was at risk when Iraq was last invaded.

I remember at the time of Vietnam the comment was that the Army at least was mainly Blacks officered by White trash.

Which is a bit harsh, but perhaps indicative.

[*Robert* 2]

Good job Boiler finding that source, and good reading. Thanks.

[Veiled Princess 1]

Suicide (qatlu nafsi-hi) is not referred to in the Koran

ِAh, so much for this authors credibility....

"

004.029 O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!"

Al-Qur'an, 004.029 (An-Nisa [Women])

See what happens when someone makes up some stupid nonsense about Islam without any proof and how easily everyone believes it without looking into it for themselves?

I have a collection of ahadeeth on my PC and that hadeeth is also not there. There are many ahadeeth that are not reliable.... that's why we have wonderful scholars who devoted their entire lives to researching them and finding out if they are authentic or not

[ace13 0]

The one thing I don't understand is why the leaders and all the followers of islam are not protesting and yelling from the tops of mountains for these terrorists to stop and to stop using islam as an excuse for their evil. I agree that what they are doing should in no way reflect on the religion because it is asinine to make a comparison, but no one is making it clear-especially to all those ignorant you speak of-that islam in no way shape or form supports any of this in any way shape or form and denounce every single action repeatedly. You need to stick up for yourselves and not let your religion take a beating. I applaud you vailedprincess for coming on this thread and giving your side.

[Veiled Princess 1]

The one thing I don't understand is why the leaders and all the followers of islam are not protesting and yelling from the tops of mountains for these terrorists to stop and to stop using islam as an excuse for their evil. I agree that what they are doing should in no way reflect on the religion because it is asinine to make a comparison, but no one is making it clear-especially to all those ignorant you speak of-that islam in no way shape or form supports any of this in any way shape or form and denounce every single action repeatedly. You need to stick up for yourselves and not let your religion take a beating. I applaud you vailedprincess for coming on this thread and giving your side.

Well, honestly, it is really not the strategy of Islam's "war on terror" to teach the non-muslims what to think about Islam. Teaching the general population of non-muslims that it's wrong will not stop terrorism. After all, it's not those who deny Islam that are committing these acts. The reasons for teaching non-muslims Islam are two... 1. to bring them to Islam and 2. to promote tolerance, acceptance and unity. It does have some affect though, what non-muslims do, because when we're trying to teach our youth the proper way to make changes to their environment and have their voices heard and then they go and see America on the news killing hundreds or thousands of their fellow muslims, or supporting Israeli terrorists who do, all over the world it only makes it harder for those who are trying to direct them in the right way.

As far as Islam's war on terror, the strategy is simple... to teach the muslims in their places of worship. There have many Friday lectures dedicated to this very topic. There have been many lectures and refuations by the very noblest of scholars, in an attempt to get the word out to muslims that this is the wrong way. And it is working. In fact, there is an extensive lecture coming up sometime this month and the mosque that is hosting it will be broadcasting via Paltalk for those who are too far away or can't make it out I'm sure, but I don't have the details to that yet.

The scholars and imams (religious leaders) (the salafi scholars at least I know of) have been working very hard to teach the muslim community as a whole that this is wrong so that our youth does not fall into this trap from Satan. In those countries that are not being controlled by the terrorists now, the governments deal very harshly with terrorists who they catch inside their boarders.

As far as protesting in the streets, this is not an etiquette from Islam. When I saw those people protesting in the streets, burning flags and buildings because of the infamous cartoons, it sickened me because this is something they have learned from non-muslims. The prohpet taught us proper ways to handle these things and protesting with hateful signs and burning buildings was not one of them.

Anyway, my point is that Islam's religious leaders/scholars have been waging their own war on terror and they have tried to explain that it is an internal problem that is being fought against but unfortunately non-muslims don't understand our ways and will continue to condemn us because we don't run out in the streets wailing and screaming like crazy people.

Layla

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

From what you're saying then, is it accurate to suggest then that Islam is more decentralised than say, the various branches of christianity which have a hierarchical structure and clearly defined leaders?

If so, aside from the ideological similarities between Islam and christianity, I have to wonder if many of the criticisms of Islam stem simply by virtue of the fact that it is not christianity.