Who or what is Terrorism??

[mawilson 2,133]

charlesandnessa -- your cartoons are priceless

[one...two...tree 2,762]

You're right, you can't ignore a misbehaving child and in reality we're not talking about children but adults.

We should stop all foreign aid to both Israel and the Palenstinians except for humantarian aid.

so in effect, punish israel for having neighbors that kidnap their countrymen. so much for the war on terror

perhaps some have forgotten that the last time we left the jews to fend for themselves, over 6 million were killed.....

I"m curious how many people here believe in the biblical apocalypse?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The big issue I have with Israel here is that their response (terror with terror), amounts to an official government policy. The actions of disparate Palestinian militant groups and individuals are not necessarily representative the government and people of Palestine.

"not necessarily representative"?

So whether it in fact is or isn't ... matters not. What matters are appearances. As long as the Palestinians can plausibly deny that the actions of Hamas and Hizb-Allah are not reflective of official Palestinian policy, they can escape any consequences.

Well, in that case, how about if Israel had extremist paramilitaries of its own that went into Gaza from time to time and blew sh!t up? The Israeli government would deny involvement and suddenly they wouldn't be the bad guys anymore? Would that satisfy you?

That's not really my point. Do you think that this ongoing land dispute (which has become a political dispute) between two disparate communities and cultures can be resolved, long term, without each side having a viable, representative government in place?

A strong, capable government brings order. Whether it be led by Gandhi or Saddam Hussein.

The problem is that this has gone on so long it pushes both sides to polar extremes of nationalism. I've said this before. If you need any further proof, take a look at that troll-thread from this morning.

[Veiled Princess 1]

I"m curious how many people here believe in the biblical apocalypse?

not biblical

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

I"m curious how many people here believe in the biblical apocalypse?

not biblical

btw, i am curious about something. i've heard that the male suicide bombers are told they'll get 72 female virgins when they go to heaven.

as there has been the occasional female suicide bomber, do they get 72 male virgins when they go to heaven?

Edited July 13, 2006 by charlesandnessa

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

In the UK we lived under the shadow of terrorism for 30+ years. Yet whenever the paramilitaries blew up a pub or set explosives in public trash bins, you never saw the British army moving in demolishing homes, and depriving entire towns of essential utilities.

Goes back to (what I suspect) is at the core of this. That the rights of certain groups of people are relegated to the status of lesser human beings simply by virtue of their religion and where they live.

"That the rights of certain groups of people are relegated to the status of lesser human beings simply by virtue of their religion and where they live."

If that's true, then both sides are guilty. In fact, it is part of the rhetoric of extremists (I won't even call them muslim). How many times have you heard kill the infidels? How many times have you heard plans to kill any and all Americans? The only possible way you could have that attitude is if you do not see those people as human beings, and hate them based on their religion (or lack of practicing yours) and geographic location (in this case Israel or the U.S.).

The truth is that I don't buy your conclusion that Israel acts based on relgious superiority and geography. They want the right to exist and other people in that area have a problem with that, ironically, based on geography and religion as you accused above.

What would be a proper response, in your opinion, from Israel? One that would not be seen as discriminatory against religion or geography?

Both sides are guilty, as you say. The big issue I have with Israel here is that their response (terror with terror), amounts to an official government policy. The actions of disparate Palestinian militant groups and individuals are not necessarily representative the government and people of Palestine. Though the more resentment that is created, the more that will change.

Its in Israel's interest to see the establishment of a strong, autonomous Palestinian government, and its related institutions (i.e. law enforcement). Sadly each time they move tanks into civilian areas it only increases the resentment, resulting most recently in the increased political prescence of Hamas. How else will the problem be resolved (long term) if not diplomatically? Though at the moment both sides are moving so far from the table the only likely outcome is mutual jihad.

I asked you however how this particular instance should be handled, since you are calling their response terrorism.

Keep in mind.....these militants moved into Israel from Lebanon and abducted Israeli soldiers in Israel. This is an invasion. Clearly, Lebanon or anyone else for that matter can justify such an action - which means it is wrong. So....you are Lebanon.....you have a militant group acting within your borders and you choose not to do anything about it. These guys commit crimes in Israel and retreat back to Lebanon. As Lebanon....what would you anticipate Israel's response to be?

Don't you think Israel would jump for joy if Lebanon took aggresively took care of this themselves? How do you justify their government policy in this case?

Israel doesn't want to be there....but they have no choice in my eyes. Innocent people will die in Lebanon because Lebanon finds it more acceptable for their own innocent people to die rather than to have Hezbollah disappear.

I'm not justifying it - just saying that you can't boil this down to this one, current situation. Israel has done this before - it is a continuing and ongoing strategy. And by the way things are going, (Lets not mince words here - this is one of the worst political crises in the region in recent times), it is not working. Neither, I might add, is the terrorist bombing.

Needless to say, there isn't exactly any love lost between Israel and Lebanon... Check your history.

Bulldozing people's houses and disrupting civilian utilities (in an already economically deprived area) is simply unjustifiable, and reminds me of similar actions taken by the Nazis against the French resistance (terrorists from their perspective) - for everyone one of our men you kill, we shoot 10 of yours..

Essentially it's a racist policy sanctioned by a democratically elected government. It treats ALL Palestinian civilians and the terrorists as one and the same.

As I said, plenty of countries dealt with the threat of terrorism without resorting to barbarism and collective punishment.

There can be no viable long term solution without diplomacy. And that cannot be achieved until there is a strong Palestinian government and law enforcement agency to keep its dissidents under control.

I"m curious how many people here believe in the biblical apocalypse?

not biblical

btw, i am curious about something. i've heard that the male suicide bombers are told they'll get 72 female virgins when they go to heaven.

as there has been the occasional female suicide bomber, do they get 72 male virgins when they go to heaven?

Perhaps its a stereotype...

Edited July 13, 2006 by erekose

[Veiled Princess 1]

btw, i am curious about something. i've heard that the male suicide bombers are told they'll get 72 female virgins when they go to heaven.

as there has been the occasional female suicide bomber, do they get 72 male virgins when they go to heaven?

Don't be an @$$ Charles. If you can show me in the Quran where it mentions 72 virgins I'll have this discussion with you

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

btw, i am curious about something. i've heard that the male suicide bombers are told they'll get 72 female virgins when they go to heaven.

as there has been the occasional female suicide bomber, do they get 72 male virgins when they go to heaven?

Don't be an @$$ Charles. If you can show me in the Quran where it mentions 72 virgins I'll have this discussion with you

so they don't get anything then? and no need to be hostile, i was asking you a question.

you should be welcoming the chance to inform me........

Edited July 13, 2006 by charlesandnessa

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

btw, i am curious about something. i've heard that the male suicide bombers are told they'll get 72 female virgins when they go to heaven.

as there has been the occasional female suicide bomber, do they get 72 male virgins when they go to heaven?

Don't be an @$$ Charles. If you can show me in the Quran where it mentions 72 virgins I'll have this discussion with you

so they don't get anything then? and no need to be hostile, i was asking you a question.

Perhaps reading the Koran would help...? If you are really curious about understanding Islam, which admittedly many aren't. Before they pass judgement, at any rate.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

btw, i am curious about something. i've heard that the male suicide bombers are told they'll get 72 female virgins when they go to heaven.

as there has been the occasional female suicide bomber, do they get 72 male virgins when they go to heaven?

Don't be an @$$ Charles. If you can show me in the Quran where it mentions 72 virgins I'll have this discussion with you

so they don't get anything then? and no need to be hostile, i was asking you a question.

Perhaps reading the Koran would help...? If you are really curious about understanding Islam, which admittedly many aren't. Before they pass judgement, at any rate.

i was just trying to clarify something i've heard. so basically they get promised nothing?

and no need for the name calling "princess"

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

btw, i am curious about something. i've heard that the male suicide bombers are told they'll get 72 female virgins when they go to heaven.

as there has been the occasional female suicide bomber, do they get 72 male virgins when they go to heaven?

Don't be an @$$ Charles. If you can show me in the Quran where it mentions 72 virgins I'll have this discussion with you

so they don't get anything then? and no need to be hostile, i was asking you a question.

Perhaps reading the Koran would help...? If you are really curious about understanding Islam, which admittedly many aren't. Before they pass judgement, at any rate.

i was just trying to clarify something i've heard. so basically they get promised nothing?

and no need for the name calling "princess"

No name calling for my part. Just pointing out that the quickest and most reliable way to find something is to look it up for yourself.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

btw, i am curious about something. i've heard that the male suicide bombers are told they'll get 72 female virgins when they go to heaven.

as there has been the occasional female suicide bomber, do they get 72 male virgins when they go to heaven?

Don't be an @$$ Charles. If you can show me in the Quran where it mentions 72 virgins I'll have this discussion with you

so they don't get anything then? and no need to be hostile, i was asking you a question.

Perhaps reading the Koran would help...? If you are really curious about understanding Islam, which admittedly many aren't. Before they pass judgement, at any rate.

i was just trying to clarify something i've heard. so basically they get promised nothing?

and no need for the name calling "princess"

No name calling for my part. Just pointing out that the quickest and most reliable way to find something is to look it up for yourself.

was not saying you were. that was directed at the princess. and looks like i'll have to since she won't give me a straight answer.

[Veiled Princess 1]

that was directed at the princess. and looks like i'll have to since she won't give me a straight answer.

You did not just ask me a question you were making a false claim against my religion and being a smartbutt about it. You could have asked me what they get and I would have given you my opinion but that's not what you did.

I think it's great you'll read it for yourself. God willing you will be guided to the light.

Edited July 13, 2006 by veiledprincesslayla

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

that was directed at the princess. and looks like i'll have to since she won't give me a straight answer.

You did not just ask me a question you were making a false claim against my religion and being a smartbutt about it. You could have asked me what they get and I would have given you my opinion but that's not what you did.

I think it's great you'll read it for yourself. God willing you will be guided to the light.

it was a question, and you had the chance to state when it was first asked that what i'd heard was false. but no, you took the opportunity to offer up some choice words and leave me wondering what the answer was.

nor do i think it's necessary for you to think i need to be guided to the light, that's rather presumptious of you.

[Veiled Princess 1]