Who or what is Terrorism??

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

And the end result is you've just recruited hundreds more terrorists and won over more sympathizers to their cause. Israel's tactics have done NOTHING but perpetuate the violence. These terrorists are ruthless killers, but there are other ways to more effectively combat them without more innocent bloodshed.

I disagree. Collective punishment works. Every Palestinian terrorist knows that if he blows

himself up in Tel-Aviv, his elderly mother's house will be bulldozed to rubble the very next day.

Clearly many of them don't give a damn, but it's still a powerful deterrent.

Still not morally justifiable.

Nor is blowing yourself up on a bus full of people. The issue is that the tactics used are quite crude and they are not stupid....they fight from the shadows from among the people. It is not possible to counter that violence in a way that is so targeted and so specific that nobody gets hurt.

They declared war and in war, people die....innocent and otherwise.

I always wonder what, instead should be done. In the example today where 2 soldiers had been abducted by an organization that has representation in a government and funding from other countries. Should Israel say.....ok....we think this is a terrible thing and we would like to react, but since these people hide among innocent people and use them as shields we don't want to act because they might get hurt. Therefore, let's negotiate and give them prisoners as they requested. Or....well....those soldiers got abducted but nothing we can do now because we don't want to hurt anyone. I guess they will just have to die.

The truth is terrorists want innocent people to get killed....it's their only justification for their actions and their only way to recruit others. On the same coin, Israel has no choice but to take action. If they do not, what message do they send to their military? If you're abducted, sorry but you'll have to die because we're too scared of the possibility of killing an innocent person while going after the criminals? What about their lives? Are they not obligated to try to protect them and bring them home safely?

If the criminals had any sense of honor or if they really cared about their people, then they would not put their people in harm's way by hiding among them.

Not saying it is justifiable - just that the roots of this phenomenon don't begin and end with the terrorists. People tend to forget that. Rather like addressing the symptoms rather than the cause.

Suicide bombers are, in the main, uneducated people who, turn to a bastardised form of religion as a way of giving purpose to their lives. Do you wonder perhaps why it is that the leaders (the Bin Laden's, Al Zarqawis) aren't blowing themselves up all over the shop?

[*Robert* 2]

Suicide bombers are, in the main, uneducated people who, turn to a bastardised form of religion as a way of giving purpose to their lives. Do you wonder perhaps why it is that the leaders (the Bin Laden's, Al Zarqawis) aren't blowing themselves up all over the shop?

Sorry, but I had to laugh at that, because sometimes, the truth, no matter how terrible it is... is funny. You'd think the rest of them would see that as well. Why aren't the top dogs out there blowing themselves up? I'm sure they can rationalize it as, well who would be their leader then? Guess there will always be the sacraficial lambs/pawns of war and terror. Goes to survival of the fittest and natural selection. Have to weed out the metally weak.

[mercuryroad 0]

The issue is that the tactics used are quite crude and they are not stupid....they fight from the shadows from among the people. It is not possible to counter that violence in a way that is so targeted and so specific that nobody gets hurt.

Very well put, merc. I agree completely.

I always wonder what, instead should be done. In the example today where 2 soldiers had been abducted by an organization that has representation in a government and funding from other countries. Should Israel say.....ok....we think this is a terrible thing and we would like to react, but since these people hide among innocent people and use them as shields we don't want to act because they might get hurt. Therefore, let's negotiate and give them prisoners as they requested. Or....well....those soldiers got abducted but nothing we can do now because we don't want to hurt anyone. I guess they will just have to die.

You can always adopt the policy of take no prisoners. Eliminate them as soon as you have them. Then no one can use them as leverage. I'm not advocating this, mind you.. just pointing out one "solution".

But they seem to be big fans of taking prisoners......and then brutally torturing them when they don't get what they want. That's no better than the innocent little girl unintentionally being killed from a targeted missle attack.

Nobody wants to see innocent people get killed but you see a lot of emotion instead of rationale thought on this issue. I'm not saying Israel is right in their response, but what the h*ll are they supposed to do?

You've got a country that refuses to deal with this known problem in the North. Thus, this hate breeding ground grows and grows until something like this happens. And then people are shocked when Israel does something about it? How much is enough? How many more soldiers have to be abducted?

Israel didn't kill the innocent girl, Hezbollah did. Israel had no choice but to retaliate and I think any reasonable person could understand that. Israel is not the enemy of Lebanon.....they weren't bombing the airport in Beruit until after those soldiers were abducted. In fact, you could say that nobody hates the people of Lebanon more than Hezbollah.

Hezbollah uses, and flaunts terrorist tactics. It is known that Israel will respond to terrorist tactics. Hezbollah exists unchallenged in Northern Lebanon. Lebanon does nothing to remove them.

Therefore, Lebanon trades that innocent girl's death for the existance of Hezbollah and should mourn as much as the people of Israel for their part in her death.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

In the UK we lived under the shadow of terrorism for 30+ years. Yet whenever the paramilitaries blew up a pub or set explosives in public trash bins, you never saw the British army moving in demolishing homes, and depriving entire towns of essential utilities.

Goes back to (what I suspect) is at the core of this. That the rights of certain groups of people are relegated to the status of lesser human beings simply by virtue of their religion and where they live.

[Ban Hammer 13,678]

In the UK we lived under the shadow of terrorism for 30+ years. Yet whenever the paramilitaries blew up a pub or set explosives in public trash bins, you never saw the British army moving in demolishing homes, and depriving entire towns of essential utilities.

Goes back to (what I suspect) is at the core of this. That the rights of certain groups of people are relegated to the status of lesser human beings simply by virtue of their religion and where they live.

true, the british army did not do that. however it should be noted that the ira did not possess rockets. which is one thing israel is doing now - establishing a buffer zone so such cannot be fired into israel.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Clearly many of them don't give a damn, but it's still a powerful deterrent.

If they "clearly don't give a *&^%" then how does it work?

And it's not just his granny down the street.. it's the child across town that's never met him, the woman in the supermarket who just wants to buy food for her kids, the man at the airport who was just trying to catch a flight.....

As the OP stated - this 'eye for an eye' mentality leads to nowhere and no one involved can claim to be on the right side of justice because everyone's pointing their finger as to who started it. It's too bad Jesus is synonomous with Christianity, because that guy had a lot of great wisdom in the concept of forgiveness without retaliation that everyone could learn from. It's not just a Christian concept - it's an enlightened Truth.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

In the UK we lived under the shadow of terrorism for 30+ years. Yet whenever the paramilitaries blew up a pub or set explosives in public trash bins, you never saw the British army moving in demolishing homes, and depriving entire towns of essential utilities.

Goes back to (what I suspect) is at the core of this. That the rights of certain groups of people are relegated to the status of lesser human beings simply by virtue of their religion and where they live.

true, the british army did not do that. however it should be noted that the ira did not possess rockets. which is one thing israel is doing now - establishing a buffer zone so such cannot be fired into israel.

They were trying to acquire them. And don't forget the small matter of IRA affiliates were routinely visiting the US for the purposes of fundraising - up until a few years ago...

[mercuryroad 0]

In the UK we lived under the shadow of terrorism for 30+ years. Yet whenever the paramilitaries blew up a pub or set explosives in public trash bins, you never saw the British army moving in demolishing homes, and depriving entire towns of essential utilities.

Goes back to (what I suspect) is at the core of this. That the rights of certain groups of people are relegated to the status of lesser human beings simply by virtue of their religion and where they live.

"That the rights of certain groups of people are relegated to the status of lesser human beings simply by virtue of their religion and where they live."

If that's true, then both sides are guilty. In fact, it is part of the rhetoric of extremists (I won't even call them muslim). How many times have you heard kill the infidels? How many times have you heard plans to kill any and all Americans? The only possible way you could have that attitude is if you do not see those people as human beings, and hate them based on their religion (or lack of practicing yours) and geographic location (in this case Israel or the U.S.).

The truth is that I don't buy your conclusion that Israel acts based on relgious superiority and geography. They want the right to exist and other people in that area have a problem with that, ironically, based on geography and religion as you accused above.

What would be a proper response, in your opinion, from Israel? One that would not be seen as discriminatory against religion or geography?

[Ban Hammer 13,678]

In the UK we lived under the shadow of terrorism for 30+ years. Yet whenever the paramilitaries blew up a pub or set explosives in public trash bins, you never saw the British army moving in demolishing homes, and depriving entire towns of essential utilities.

Goes back to (what I suspect) is at the core of this. That the rights of certain groups of people are relegated to the status of lesser human beings simply by virtue of their religion and where they live.

true, the british army did not do that. however it should be noted that the ira did not possess rockets. which is one thing israel is doing now - establishing a buffer zone so such cannot be fired into israel.

They were trying to acquire them. And don't forget the small matter of IRA affiliates were routinely visiting the US for the purposes of fundraising - up until a few years ago...

good thing they didn't ask me. i despise the ira.

terrorists having artillery will certainly change the equation though.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

In the UK we lived under the shadow of terrorism for 30+ years. Yet whenever the paramilitaries blew up a pub or set explosives in public trash bins, you never saw the British army moving in demolishing homes, and depriving entire towns of essential utilities.

Goes back to (what I suspect) is at the core of this. That the rights of certain groups of people are relegated to the status of lesser human beings simply by virtue of their religion and where they live.

"That the rights of certain groups of people are relegated to the status of lesser human beings simply by virtue of their religion and where they live."

If that's true, then both sides are guilty. In fact, it is part of the rhetoric of extremists (I won't even call them muslim). How many times have you heard kill the infidels? How many times have you heard plans to kill any and all Americans? The only possible way you could have that attitude is if you do not see those people as human beings, and hate them based on their religion (or lack of practicing yours) and geographic location (in this case Israel or the U.S.).

The truth is that I don't buy your conclusion that Israel acts based on relgious superiority and geography. They want the right to exist and other people in that area have a problem with that, ironically, based on geography and religion as you accused above.

What would be a proper response, in your opinion, from Israel? One that would not be seen as discriminatory against religion or geography?

Both sides are guilty, as you say. The big issue I have with Israel here is that their response (terror with terror), amounts to an official government policy. The actions of disparate Palestinian militant groups and individuals are not necessarily representative the government and people of Palestine. Though the more resentment that is created, the more that will change.

Its in Israel's interest to see the establishment of a strong, autonomous Palestinian government, and its related institutions (i.e. law enforcement). Sadly each time they move tanks into civilian areas it only increases the resentment, resulting most recently in the increased political prescence of Hamas. How else will the problem be resolved (long term) if not diplomatically? Though at the moment both sides are moving so far from the table the only likely outcome is mutual jihad.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

The big issue I have with Israel here is that their response (terror with terror), amounts to an official government policy. The actions of disparate Palestinian militant groups and individuals are not necessarily representative the government and people of Palestine.

"not necessarily representative"?

So whether it in fact is or isn't ... matters not. What matters are appearances. As long as the Palestinians can plausibly deny that the actions of Hamas and Hizb-Allah are not reflective of official Palestinian policy, they can escape any consequences.

Well, in that case, how about if Israel had extremist paramilitaries of its own that went into Gaza from time to time and blew sh!t up? The Israeli government would deny involvement and suddenly they wouldn't be the bad guys anymore? Would that satisfy you?

[Peter Miami 0]

Man has not learned and will not learn to stop killing. Just look at World history. We alway have a reason to kill.

Peter Miami

Edited July 13, 2006 by Peter Miami

[Ban Hammer 13,678]

Man has not learned and will not learn to stop killing. Just look at World history. We alway have a reason to kill.

Peter Miami

and right now, i'd kill for a beer!

[Peter Miami 0]

Man has not learned and will not learn to stop killing. Just look at World history. We alway have a reason to kill.

Peter Miami

and right now, i'd kill for a beer!

And I would kill for a pizza; large, with extra cheese and a coke.

Peter Miami

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Man has not learned and will not learn to stop killing. Just look at World history. We alway have a reason to kill.

Peter Miami

or invent one. we are a destructive and creative species. a double edged sword.