Who or what is Terrorism??

[I'm Gone 60]

Terrorists are people that blow up something of yours.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Terrorists are people that blow up something of yours.

lol .. you're back on topic which makes you off-topic!!

[chri'stina 190]

From what you're saying then, is it accurate to suggest then that Islam is more decentralised than say, the various branches of christianity which have a hierarchical structure and clearly defined leaders?

If so, aside from the ideological similarities between Islam and christianity, I have to wonder if many of the criticisms of Islam stem simply by virtue of the fact that it is not christianity.

That would be pretty accurate. There are no priests or cardinals or bishops who control what everyone is allowed to believe as a collective. We have religious leaders and scholars but we pretty much are encouraged to learn it for ourselves instead of just taking another man's word for it. Of course if you have a question and you can't find the answer or the understanding then you refer to it the scholar that you trust and he will explain it and give you the proof to back it up. If he doesn't have the proof then you have the right to ask about it.

One learns to trust certain scholars based upon reading his/her works and seeing if they back up their statements/fatawa with proofs from the Quran and Sunnah (the ahadeeth we talked about before).

There is no room in Islam for things to be made up. There must be proof to back it up or you shouldn't say it.

Well I'm a protestant Christian and what you are saying above I agree with, but in my faith's point of view. Many Christians(not all of course) do not just let bishops or cardinals or popes tell them what to believe, unless they have no desire to find out for themselves and just take another man's word. Also there is Protestant and Catholic Christians, and there are differences between the two. But for me and the Christians around me, we back things up with Scripture, we don't just do whatever a leader says. Just wanted to clarify, that not all Christians just go along with what any leader says. Many Christians read the bible to make sure things are said that are accurate(of course I wish Christians more did!). There is no room in Christianity for things to be made up either. The problem of people just taking another man's word instead of looking it up themselves is present in every religion.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Hence, fight against them until there is no more oppression and all worship is devoted to God alone

Except I'm sure the verse uses the word Allah and not God, right?

And before you say Allah _is_ God, let me interject... no Allah is _your_ God.

Did you read the whole verse?

Hence, fight against them until there is no more oppression and all worship is devoted to God alone; but if they desist, then all hostility shall cease, save against those who [wilfully] do wrong.

This verse shows that there are 2 ends to fighting - 1. that muslims triumph completely or 2. we reach a compromise if the other side is willing to negotiate.

Edited July 14, 2006 by rahma

[mercuryroad 0]

If so, aside from the ideological similarities between Islam and christianity, I have to wonder if many of the criticisms of Islam stem simply by virtue of the fact that it is not christianity.

Nope. The criticism comes from the lack of ability to deal with the internal problem and the fact that governments sponsor these actions. Abducting soliders is criminal....and the organization that did it resides in Lebanon and in fact has representation in the government. They also choose to do nothing about it, making them criminals themselves. Israel attacks and innocent Lebanese people die. Like I said before, Lebanon values Hezbollah more than their own people and would rather see their own innocent people die than take down Hezbollah. Lebanon in a sense, sanctions the death of their own citizens by supporting a group that murders citizens of another country.

That's not what I said - I mean't general criticisms of Islam. You know this 'where is the outrage' tune that people seem so intent on playing - is based, I think, on a general misunderstanding not only of comparative religious doctrines but how the fact that it is not a organised, hierarchical institution - compared to say, the various denominations of the catholic church.

In that regard, Islam is often criticised simply because it is not more like christianity (structurally at least).

Am not condoning in any way the tactics of Hezbollah.

I can see your point to an extent, but I don't think it takes it far enough.

Basically, you are stating the criticism comes from the fact that Chritians don't like muslims because they are not Christians. I think that is absurd.

As far as the "where is the outrage" comment......don't you think that is acceptable? People are having their heads cut off...slowly I may add....people are being blown up in trains while going to work, people are being dismembered and having thier private parts stuffed in their mouths, etc.

Outrage is expected and required. What are we supposed to do then? Say....well all this stuff is happening....we don't really see the outrage but I trust it is there. I'm sure they are taking care of the problem.

The reason you do not see public outrage and larger scale movements is fear.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Hence, fight against them until there is no more oppression and all worship is devoted to God alone

Except I'm sure the verse uses the word Allah and not God, right?

And before you say Allah _is_ God, let me interject... no Allah is _your_ God.

Did you read the whole verse?

Hence, fight against them until there is no more oppression and all worship is devoted to God alone; but if they desist, then all hostility shall cease, save against those who [wilfully] do wrong.

This verse shows that there are 2 ends to fighting - 1. that muslims triumph completely or 2. we reach a compromise if the other side is willing to negotiate.

I was pointing out the fact that "muslims triumph completely" means everyone worships your false god. There is no allowance for defeat of the enemy but allowing the enemy to worship the deity of his/her choice. This betrays the intolerance that is at the heart of your false religion.

[Veiled Princess 1]

The reason you do not see public outrage and larger scale movements is fear.

I have already explained this.

I'm sorry I answered anyone's questions on here... I should have learned my lesson the last time.

[mercuryroad 0]

The reason you do not see public outrage and larger scale movements is fear.

I have already explained this.

I know....but I don't buy it.

This a global society now with global responsibilities. Silence and inaction are seen as agreement with the behavior.......especially when the behavior in question is done in the name of something else and is sponsored by governments in the region.

Hezbollah ownes how many seats in the democratic Lebanon government? Quite a few! Everyone knows their tactics.....which means people know it and vote for them anyway. They agree with those tactics. That's frightening.

I believe their is not more public outcry because they are afraid of being killed themselves......in a way, they are afraid of dying for their beliefs.

[Veiled Princess 1]

I believe their is not more public outcry because they are afraid of being killed themselves......in a way, they are afraid of dying for their beliefs.

And you are free to form any opinion as you see fit.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Hence, fight against them until there is no more oppression and all worship is devoted to God alone

Except I'm sure the verse uses the word Allah and not God, right?

And before you say Allah _is_ God, let me interject... no Allah is _your_ God.

Did you read the whole verse?

Hence, fight against them until there is no more oppression and all worship is devoted to God alone; but if they desist, then all hostility shall cease, save against those who [wilfully] do wrong.

This verse shows that there are 2 ends to fighting - 1. that muslims triumph completely or 2. we reach a compromise if the other side is willing to negotiate.

I was pointing out the fact that "muslims triumph completely" means everyone worships your false god. There is no allowance for defeat of the enemy but allowing the enemy to worship the deity of his/her choice. This betrays the intolerance that is at the heart of your false religion.

Weeeeee, are we having fun yet?

If one chooses to start a war with muslims, then they should be aware of the inevitable results. Choosing to comprimse instead has allowed religious communities to continue to worship their chosen way under a muslim government. Has it always been perfectly implimented? No, unfortunately.

Look at how we ended world war 2 with Japan. We bombed them into submission and then rewrote their entire government, destroying the diety of the emperor. It's not like Islam is unique in it's approach for war.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Look at how we ended world war 2 with Japan. We bombed them into submission and then rewrote their entire government, destroying the diety of the emperor. It's not like Islam is unique in it's approach for war.

Thank you for clearing that up

[Bosco 1]

Hence, fight against them until there is no more oppression and all worship is devoted to God alone

Except I'm sure the verse uses the word Allah and not God, right?

And before you say Allah _is_ God, let me interject... no Allah is _your_ God.

So silly. Read an Arabic bible. It uses Allah too. By your reasoning, Christian Arabs are worshipping "Allah is_your_God" too.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Hence, fight against them until there is no more oppression and all worship is devoted to God alone

Except I'm sure the verse uses the word Allah and not God, right?

And before you say Allah _is_ God, let me interject... no Allah is _your_ God.

So silly. Read an Arabic bible. It uses Allah too. By your reasoning, Christian Arabs are worshipping "Allah is_your_God" too.

Umm you go into a non-Arabic speaking part of the world with a Muslim army and tell people they must submit to Allah, what do you think that means? That they can merrily go on worshipping their tree gods as long as they call the tree Allah? No...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If so, aside from the ideological similarities between Islam and christianity, I have to wonder if many of the criticisms of Islam stem simply by virtue of the fact that it is not christianity.

Nope. The criticism comes from the lack of ability to deal with the internal problem and the fact that governments sponsor these actions. Abducting soliders is criminal....and the organization that did it resides in Lebanon and in fact has representation in the government. They also choose to do nothing about it, making them criminals themselves. Israel attacks and innocent Lebanese people die. Like I said before, Lebanon values Hezbollah more than their own people and would rather see their own innocent people die than take down Hezbollah. Lebanon in a sense, sanctions the death of their own citizens by supporting a group that murders citizens of another country.

That's not what I said - I mean't general criticisms of Islam. You know this 'where is the outrage' tune that people seem so intent on playing - is based, I think, on a general misunderstanding not only of comparative religious doctrines but how the fact that it is not a organised, hierarchical institution - compared to say, the various denominations of the catholic church.

In that regard, Islam is often criticised simply because it is not more like christianity (structurally at least).

Am not condoning in any way the tactics of Hezbollah.

I can see your point to an extent, but I don't think it takes it far enough.

Basically, you are stating the criticism comes from the fact that Chritians don't like muslims because they are not Christians. I think that is absurd.

As far as the "where is the outrage" comment......don't you think that is acceptable? People are having their heads cut off...slowly I may add....people are being blown up in trains while going to work, people are being dismembered and having thier private parts stuffed in their mouths, etc.

Outrage is expected and required. What are we supposed to do then? Say....well all this stuff is happening....we don't really see the outrage but I trust it is there. I'm sure they are taking care of the problem.

The reason you do not see public outrage and larger scale movements is fear.

Again, you are misunderstanding what was said. I'm saying part of the reason why people criticise Islam as not showing enough outrage over fundamentalist atrocities lies in the fact that the religion itself is structured differently to christianity. There is no Islamic equivalent to say, the Catholic Church.

It would be saying something if VJers from muslim countries were directly condoning extremism and fanaticism, but they aren't. Many muslim groups don't either - how then is that rationalised as (at best) a broad indifference in the islamic world?

People brought up in a western, predominantly christian culture in the main, have no other reference point for other religions than christianity. In that respect the criticisms they bring against muslims stem from that misunderstanding, not only of the doctrines themselves but of the way in which it is structured.

[Fuzzness 2]

From what you're saying then, is it accurate to suggest then that Islam is more decentralised than say, the various branches of christianity which have a hierarchical structure and clearly defined leaders?

If so, aside from the ideological similarities between Islam and christianity, I have to wonder if many of the criticisms of Islam stem simply by virtue of the fact that it is not christianity.

That would be pretty accurate. There are no priests or cardinals or bishops who control what everyone is allowed to believe as a collective. We have religious leaders and scholars but we pretty much are encouraged to learn it for ourselves instead of just taking another man's word for it. Of course if you have a question and you can't find the answer or the understanding then you refer to it the scholar that you trust and he will explain it and give you the proof to back it up. If he doesn't have the proof then you have the right to ask about it.

One learns to trust certain scholars based upon reading his/her works and seeing if they back up their statements/fatawa with proofs from the Quran and Sunnah (the ahadeeth we talked about before).

There is no room in Islam for things to be made up. There must be proof to back it up or you shouldn't say it.

Well I'm a protestant Christian and what you are saying above I agree with, but in my faith's point of view. Many Christians(not all of course) do not just let bishops or cardinals or popes tell them what to believe, unless they have no desire to find out for themselves and just take another man's word. Also there is Protestant and Catholic Christians, and there are differences between the two. But for me and the Christians around me, we back things up with Scripture, we don't just do whatever a leader says. Just wanted to clarify, that not all Christians just go along with what any leader says. Many Christians read the bible to make sure things are said that are accurate(of course I wish Christians more did!). There is no room in Christianity for things to be made up either. The problem of people just taking another man's word instead of looking it up themselves is present in every religion.

that makes you an intelligent christian. indeed, from what I have seen, you are the minority. most people, in the south especially, just take the pastor's word and don't think for themselves.

I was pointing out the fact that "muslims triumph completely" means everyone worships your false god. There is no allowance for defeat of the enemy but allowing the enemy to worship the deity of his/her choice. This betrays the intolerance that is at the heart of your false religion.

you, sir, are indeed brave!