The Saga Continues.....

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I don't want to sound condescending, but it's not like I'm a scholar with adoring pupils sitting at her feet eager to suck up whatever she has to say. I have to work a little harder, its a tough crowd!

I've been DYING to hear from the readers. Honestly, now, is what Layla promotes as halal what you would want for your daughter when she meets the man she wants to marry? Or would you want the whole enchilada for her? Could you make excuses to facilitate it?

[crazyinEgypt 0]

As husband of my wife I must say this

man fata beghir elm fal yataboua makadah men alnar which means

those people who give fatwa which is wrong to make people doubt,he or she will go to hell

[AngelK96 0]

Is this topic done now? or still up for debate?

I for one would like to see other things discussed

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Was that your fatwa? Would you care to expand on it? I haven't seen any other fatwas.

I was wondering when threats of hell and damnation would appear. Now I'm scared . . .

I agree, I think this is definitely a result of a clash of cultural values that tie into religion.

I know women who find the entire concept of mahr offensive because Western thought makes them feel "bought", as well as women who find the concept of a man as breadwinner degrading. There is a difference between choosing to be an equal partner financially as a result of means, choice desire, or rejecting it because you feel "kept" due to stereotypes. I think rejecting the ways they should be honored ties into the Western stereotypes of oppressed Muslim women and is a way of setting themselves apart from the stereotypes but it often is to their own disadvantage.

Wow! That was deep!

Angel, honey, what would you like to discuss? I'm not much for chit chat, but I'll entertain other meaty subjects.

Edited July 18, 2006 by szsz

[AngelK96 0]

Was that your fatwa? Would you care to expand on it? I haven't seen any other fatwas.

I agree, I think this is definitely a result of a clash of cultural values that tie into religion.

I know women who find the entire concept of mahr offensive because Western thought makes them feel "bought", as well as women who find the concept of a man as breadwinner degrading. There is a difference between choosing to be an equal partner financially as a result of means, choice desire, or rejecting it because you feel "kept" due to stereotypes. I think rejecting the ways they should be honored ties into the Western stereotypes of oppressed Muslim women and is a way of setting themselves apart from the stereotypes but it often is to their own disadvantage.

Wow! That was deep!

Angel, honey, what would you like to discuss? I'm not much for chit chat, but I'll entertain other meaty subjects.

Ok here's a question. Since there is no Islamic Court in the USA, and two people want to divorce. Is the contract valid here?

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

Ok here's a question. Since there is no Islamic Court in the USA, and two people want to divorce. Is the contract valid here?

that would be fun to watch

Edited July 18, 2006 by charlesandnessa

[AngelK96 0]

so much for that! the thread within a thread got busted

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'm not a lawyer, but I'll tell you what I know. Contracts are valid if they do not violate other established tenets of law. This applies to Islamic law as well as secular law. The articles that I posted before have examples of what didn't work. The same is true in Muslim countries that do have Islamic courts. There may be provisions other than the commonly accepted ones added into the contract that are rejected by the court. For example, I've heard people wrongly claim that to prevent a man from taking more than one wife, a codicil can be included to forbid it.

That may be allowed in some venues, but not in others, depending on how the sharia is interpreted, and the interpretation of sharia differs from place to place, even within a country. Recently, Morocco put the breaks on polgyny, requiring direct permission from the legal wife and adding hurdles that effectively outlawed it. One of my brothers-in-law learned this the hard way not long ago. Tunisia outlawed it altogether. The same would be true if a contract allowed polgyny in a country, like Tunisia, where it was not allowed. No court would sanction that (well, maybe if bribed).

Edited July 18, 2006 by szsz

[Bosco 1]

Angel, honey, what would you like to discuss? I'm not much for chit chat, but I'll entertain other meaty subjects.

Oh how about riba versus interest, and how some believe riba to be any interest and others view riba as only non-fixed amounts (mortgage versus credit cards). And is a credit card haram if you pay it off in full each month? Is bank interest acceptable? Are Islamic lending institutions (and their concept of rent) really any different than traditional ban loans?

Or how about women has financial providers/men marrying without financial means?

Or how about halal/zabihah? Is Qardawi's view that what is halal for people of the book is halal for Muslims valid since he is in a minority?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Oh how about riba versus interest, and how some believe riba to be any interest and others view riba as only non-fixed amounts (mortgage versus credit cards). And is a credit card haram if you pay it off in full each month? Is bank interest acceptable? Are Islamic lending institutions (and their concept of rent) really any different than traditional ban loans?

I don't know much about riba other than that there is disagreement about it and that the boundaries are evolving. I do have an article that may be of interest to you. As soon as I find it, I'll forward it.

Or how about women has financial providers/men marrying without financial means?

Well, several women in my family married men who were poorer than they were, myself included, for we are well-endowed. I look to the marriage of our Rasul and Khadijah, the union of a poor, much younger man to a rich older woman. If they could do it and not sin, why not let them be our example?

May I also add, there is opinion that says that the directive for a husband to be qawaam is conditional. Perhaps one can examine the Prophet's life as one source for the answer, for he died poor, as well, and some of his wives worked.

Or how about halal/zabihah? Is Qardawi's view that what is halal for people of the book is halal for Muslims valid since he is in a minority?

5:5 and 6:121 both address this issue:

This day (all) the good things are allowed to you; and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them

[6.121] And do not eat of that on which Allah's name has not been mentioned, and that is most surely a transgression; and most surely the Shaitans suggest to their friends that they should contend with you; and if you obey them, you shall most surely be polytheists.

Also there is a hadith that reports that Aisha narrated that when the ahl al kitab brought meat for the Muslims, and they did not know if Allah's name had been said over it, the Prophet said to say His Name, then eat. I would have to check the classification of this hadith.

Edited July 18, 2006 by szsz

[AngelK96 0]

I'm not a lawyer, but I'll tell you what I know. Contracts are valid if they do not violate other established tenets of law. This applies to Islamic law as well as secular law. The articles that I posted before have examples of what didn't work. The same is true in Muslim countries that do have Islamic courts. There may be provisions other than the commonly accepted ones added into the contract that are rejected by the court. For example, I've heard people wrongly claim that to prevent a man from taking more than one wife, a codicil can be included to forbid it.

That may be allowed in some venues, but not in others, depending on how the sharia is interpreted, and the interpretation of sharia differs from place to place, even within a country. Recently, Morocco put the breaks on polgyny, requiring direct permission from the legal wife and adding hurdles that effectively outlawed it. One of my brothers-in-law learned this the hard way not long ago. Tunisia outlawed it altogether. The same would be true if a contract allowed polgyny in a country, like Tunisia, where it was not allowed. No court would sanction that (well, maybe if bribed).

Thanks, Me and a friend were having this discussion because a person we knew was divorcing and wanted to know if it was valid. We thought maybe since we are now under the US law that we follow that, or the other option was to go back to the country you married in and enforce it there.

[deeshla 0]

As husband of my wife I must say this

man fata beghir elm fal yataboua makadah men alnar which means

those people who give fatwa which is wrong to make people doubt,he or she will go to hell

Wow, I am having flashbacks of middle Tennessee (where I grew up) Church of Christ folk who told us we would go to hell for listening to music or wearing shorts or chewing gum.

Aren't we adults here? Where is the tolerance?

Tolerance, sweet non-judgemental tolerance!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

My advice would be to consult an attorney familar with marriage law in the school of thought that applies to the contract. They do exist in the US.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I don't know about anyone else, but since I've been on this thread, I've met a lot of nice people who took the time to write and offer words of kindness and encouragement. Sometimes, the PMs came so fast, I couldn't post for the popups lol! I don't feel I can do you justice and I am truly humbled. You guys made my days! Each will receive a personal thank you, but this is for you all.

Much love!

[noura 0]

So, how about that weather today, huh?