is this a red flag?

[meauxna 15]

I have always imagined though that at some point the DS-230 must get tossed or simply put to the back of the file in the "facetious BS" tab as it simply is not required at any point in the visa or AOS process for the K-1. There just is no use for it, officially.

You always think the worst.

It's probably USCIS' fault. Since K-1s are processed as immigrant visas abroad, the DS-230 was useful. The K-1 needed to come to the US, get married, and take her visa + marriage certificate to the local USCIS office and have PR status granted.

A little more long winded and expensive now, but it's not DOS' fault.

[Stephen + Elisha 92]

Thanks, Gary. I've only read what's in packet 3 for a few consulates, and the DS-230 seemed to be one of the handful of forms that was pretty common.

It's interesting. The Foreign Affairs Manual (9 FAM 41.81 Procedural Notes, http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/87393.pdf) does not list the DS-230 as a required document (cf PN 1), but later refers to DS-230 as part of Packet 3 (PN 3.2) and states that DS-230 is necessary to initiate clearance procedures (PN 3.3).

The K-1 is a NON immigrant visa and as such does not require a DS-230 form which is for immigrant visas. However, many consulates treat the K-1 as an immigrant visa and require the DS-230 for whatever purpose they deem necessary. Consulates have huge latitude on what they can require before issuing visas. I have always imagined though that at some point the DS-230 must get tossed or simply put to the back of the file in the "facetious BS" tab as it simply is not required at any point in the visa or AOS process for the K-1. There just is no use for it, officially.

Gary, you might try actually reading the link I posted. 9 FAM 41.81 is the section of the Foreign Affairs Manual that covers the K-series visas. PN 3.2 refers to DS-230 as part of the packet that is to be sent to beneficiaries of an approved petition for alien fiance. PN 3.3 says that the consulate is to initiate clearance procedures (which for a K visa are the same as IV clearance procedures) when the DS-230 is received. My suspicion is that they use the biographical data on the DS-230 to help clear up any name hits that come up in CLASS, as well as to determine whether they need to cable for any security advisory opinions (Visas Viper, Visas Condor, etc.) based on the applicant's employment or residence history. Of course, that's pure supposition, as 9 FAM Appendix G (Clearance Procedures) is classified.

I'm not denying that Kiev didn't require the DS-230 for Alla's visa application. You are correct in saying that the individual consulates have wide latitude in what they require. But considering that the State Department's Foreign Affairs Manual specifically references the DS-230 as part of the K-1 issuance procedure, your contention that "[t]here just is no use for it, officially" is patently false.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Stephen + Elisha

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Thanks, Gary. I've only read what's in packet 3 for a few consulates, and the DS-230 seemed to be one of the handful of forms that was pretty common.

It's interesting. The Foreign Affairs Manual (9 FAM 41.81 Procedural Notes, http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/87393.pdf) does not list the DS-230 as a required document (cf PN 1), but later refers to DS-230 as part of Packet 3 (PN 3.2) and states that DS-230 is necessary to initiate clearance procedures (PN 3.3).

The K-1 is a NON immigrant visa and as such does not require a DS-230 form which is for immigrant visas. However, many consulates treat the K-1 as an immigrant visa and require the DS-230 for whatever purpose they deem necessary. Consulates have huge latitude on what they can require before issuing visas. I have always imagined though that at some point the DS-230 must get tossed or simply put to the back of the file in the "facetious BS" tab as it simply is not required at any point in the visa or AOS process for the K-1. There just is no use for it, officially.

Gary, you might try actually reading the link I posted. 9 FAM 41.81 is the section of the Foreign Affairs Manual that covers the K-series visas. PN 3.2 refers to DS-230 as part of the packet that is to be sent to beneficiaries of an approved petition for alien fiance. PN 3.3 says that the consulate is to initiate clearance procedures (which for a K visa are the same as IV clearance procedures) when the DS-230 is received. My suspicion is that they use the biographical data on the DS-230 to help clear up any name hits that come up in CLASS, as well as to determine whether they need to cable for any security advisory opinions (Visas Viper, Visas Condor, etc.) based on the applicant's employment or residence history. Of course, that's pure supposition, as 9 FAM Appendix G (Clearance Procedures) is classified.

I'm not denying that Kiev didn't require the DS-230 for Alla's visa application. You are correct in saying that the individual consulates have wide latitude in what they require. But considering that the State Department's Foreign Affairs Manual specifically references the DS-230 as part of the K-1 issuance procedure, your contention that "[t]here just is no use for it, officially" is patently false.

OK, but then answer me this. Ukraine does not use the DS 230. Alla never filled one out and neither did either of our sons. So there is no DS230 extant for Alla and the two boys, yet they have green cards. SO....what would the purpose be, unless it is some function that the particular consulate has for it which is clearly unnecessary as all the Ukrainian fiancees and probably many others never use it? If it has an official purpose how does anyone get a green card without it?

I mean if you are going thorugh a consulate that treats a K-1 as an immigrant visa, which it is not, then by all means fill it out, what choice do you have? But applying some magical importance to it when a large number of K-1s never use it is kind of silly. Until recently Ukraine did not use the DS157 either and now require it for all males over age 16. Had I read the manual you suggest, and filld out a DS 230 and gave to the consulate in Kiev, what would they do with it? They don't need it, or they would ask for it. USCIS doesn't need it or they would ask for it.

I really do not care to argue about it and my comments were tongue in cheek, anyway, my family all has thier green cards so I am happy.

[Stephen + Elisha 92]

Like I said, Gary, I'm not negating your family's experience. But your family's experience is just that: your family's experience. It's not normative. One consulate's practice is not normative, for that matter.

On the other hand, the Foreign Affairs Manual is the State Department's book of standard procedures that are in force worldwide. It is normative. Practices at particular consulates that differ from what is set out in the FAM are exceptions to the rule, departures from the norm. Ukraine doesn't require the DS-230? Fine. Ukraine is an exception. As Jim said earlier, DS-230 is pretty common—which is to be expected, as it's specified in the normative FAM.

Yes, your family has their green cards. Congratulations. You have some worthwhile experience to share. But your experience doesn't make you infallible.

[dancehallquana 5]

i will do that. is there a great deal of emphasis placed on this?

There's a great deal of emphasis placed on truthful answers and some significant penalties for getting caught lying on immigration forms or to immigration officials. When you grow up, you'll learn that, "I didn't want the truth known." is not an excuse for lying.

"when u grow up" is that necessary???.. everybody knows lying is not right, ADULTS lie everyday risking consequences so ur statement doesn't mean much .. the OP made a choice (good or bad) and was asking about the possible repurcussions and what should be the next step..

SOME ppl have made some great comments w/ great advice, i applaud u guys for giving clear concise steps on how to "fix" the problem, without passing judgement..

ive seen u help many ppl pushbrk and are highly regarded on vj but sometimes your ADDED smart comments and untactful wit is a bit much.. ppl should be made to feel welcome to ask questions not afraid of condemnation by others..

be blessed!

[dancehallquana 5]

To be fair, pushbrk is one of the most knowledgable and helpful members on VJ. I just wish he'd tone down the condescension a couple notches.

yes he is!!!..but at what cost do u have to get good information??.. he answered the question by saying there is alot of emphasis placed on lying, altho not giving any examples of this particular issue, i guess he really doesn't know FOR sure what KIND of emphasis or action could be placed on this as the OP was asking, but IN GENERAL "COULD" be very severe, duly noted, thank u sir!

the colorful commentary at the end could have been KEPT..

[Brad and Vika 129]

To be fair, pushbrk is one of the most knowledgable and helpful members on VJ. I just wish he'd tone down the condescension a couple notches.

yes he is!!!..but at what cost do u have to get good information??.. he answered the question by saying there is alot of emphasis placed on lying, altho not giving any examples of this particular issue, i guess he really doesn't know FOR sure what KIND of emphasis or action could be placed on this as the OP was asking, but IN GENERAL "COULD" be very severe, duly noted, thank u sir!

the colorful commentary at the end could have been KEPT..

Not to beat a dead horse here, but see my earlier post. I really think this is a misunderstanding.