Problem applying for Passport

[jsnearline 2]

I took my wife to the Highlands Ranch Post Office today to apply for her passport.

The post office asked to see my wife's driver's license as well and then told her they couldn't process the application because the name on her driver's license didn't match the name on her naturalization certificate(she changed her name when she naturalized). We told them they already had proof of her identity in the form of the naturalization certificate (the instructions on the passport application clearly state that the Certificate of Natualization is acceptable as proof of identify AND proof of citizenship), but they wouldn't listen. They told us we had to get her driver's license updated first. We then showed them the name change petition granted by the court when my wife naturalized. After having a long conference with a supervisor out of earshot, they reluctantly accepted her application, provided we included the approved name change petition in the application packet.

When we went to the Social Security office earlier today, they accepted her naturalization certificate as proof of identity and citizenship. I wonder if this is a case of subtle discrimination or one of the post office just not knowing or caring about the State Department's rules. Douglas County is one of the most anti-immigration (legal & illegal) areas in the country. Consider the fact that our county elected Tom Tancredo in Congress multiple times.

Edited September 4, 2009 by jsnearline

[Anh map 2,098]

I would imagine that the folks at the post office do not see many naturalization certificates and wouldn't expect that to be offered as a photo ID. And after you pointed out to them that it was in fact an acceptable, everything went well. So give them the benefit of the doubt.

That being said, no one here on VJ was there with you and all we can offer is our own guesses.

Congrats to your wife. And send a Mad Greens salad my way. One of my favorite Denver area places to eat.

[Bethany 1]

I wouldn't go as far as to say his is some sort of discrimination. The post office can require whatever ID they want (this should be posted somewhere) and yes, all names must match. It's just the way it works. I knew a USC who had a passport in her married name and her DL in her maiden name (never got it changed) when she went to get her child's passport they wouldn't give it to her because her DL didn't have her married name. Sorry, that's no fun and it doesn't really make sense, but it's the way it works.

[jsnearline 2]

And after you pointed out to them that it was in fact an acceptable, everything went well. So give them the benefit of the doubt.

The point is that they did not accept the naturalization certificate as proof of identity, even though the instructions state that they should. They insisted on the driver's license.

I agree that all documents submitted must match, but the issue of a non-matching document only came up when they demanded something that was not in fact required.

[jsnearline 2]

Having looked at our receipt, I'm leaning against discrimination and toward plain old incompetence. They didn't charge us for the passport photos they took - despite the fact my wife reminded them they needed to charge us for them.

Edited September 4, 2009 by jsnearline

[DEDixon 39]

And after you pointed out to them that it was in fact an acceptable, everything went well. So give them the benefit of the doubt.

The point is that they did not accept the naturalization certificate as proof of identity, even though the instructions state that they should. They insisted on the driver's license.

I agree that all documents submitted must match, but the issue of a non-matching document only came up when they demanded something that was not in fact required.

I guess you can think whatever you like... whatever makes you happy. <-- seriously, not trying to be a smart ####. Like the man said, we/you can only guess.

Having looked at our receipt, I'm leaning against discrimination and toward plain old incompetence. They didn't charge us for the passport photos they took - despite the fact my wife reminded them they needed to charge us for them.

Maybe just lazy... who knows.

[NickD 203]

From the DS-11 instructions:

"2. PROOF OF IDENTITY

You must establish your identity to the satisfaction of the acceptance agent.

You may submit items such as the following containing your signature AND physical description or photograph that is a good likeness of you: previous or current

U.S. passport book; previous or current U.S. passport card; driver’s license (not temporary or learner’s license); Certificate of Naturalization, Certificate of

Citizenship; military identification; or federal, state, or municipal government employee identification card or pass. Temporary or altered documents are not

acceptable. When necessary, we may ask you to provide additional evidence to establish your identity.

IF YOU CANNOT PROVIDE DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE OF IDENTITY as stated above, you must appear with an IDENTIFYING WITNESS who is a U.S. citizen,

non–citizen U.S. national, or permanent resident alien who has known you for at least 2 years. Your witness must prove his or her identity and complete and

sign an Affidavit of Identifying Witness (Form DS–71) before the acceptance agent. You must also submit some identification of your own."

It gets crazy at times, reason why my wife had her USC certificate is because of her green card, reason she has her green card is because of her foreign passport and birth certificate and all kinds of checks. Only reason why she has her drivers' license is because of her green card, drivers' license is completely redundant and the DMV certainly does not make the checks that the USCIS made.

That "or" above means any of those forms of identification, but you cannot argue with city hall. Or can you?

[jsnearline 2]

The disclaimers in the instructions "you must establish your identity to the satisfaction of the acceptance agent" and "when necessary, we may ask you to provide additional evidence to establish your identity" seem to give them broad enough discretion to sail an ocean liner through. I thought about making a call to the State Department's passport hotline and asking them about it, but since this is the only time she'll have to apply in person, it's probably not worth my time. As long as my wife's certificate of naturalization and original name change petition are returned with her new passport, we'll be happy.

Edited September 4, 2009 by jsnearline

[Kathryn41 3,205]

It does sound like your Post Office isn't familiar with the requirements. When I applied for my passport I made a copy of my DL to give with them after showing them my original, but they said they didn't need to see the original or to have a copy - that the Citizenship Certificate was all that was required - and it was all that they took.

[Old Dominion 26]

I have a feeling it was just the postal clerk's precaution at play. Better to go to the local court clerk to apply for a passport. Their staff is usually more well-informed on these things.

[MsAnn 0]

When we went to the Social Security office earlier today, they accepted her naturalization certificate as proof of identity and citizenship.

And in my case, they wanted to see both my DL and certificate at the SS office. I guess it's up to the government employees discretion?

[Tini27 0]

When we went to the Social Security office earlier today, they accepted her naturalization certificate as proof of identity and citizenship.

And in my case, they wanted to see both my DL and certificate at the SS office. I guess it's up to the government employees discretion?

Like MsAnn, I was asked to show both the naturalization certificate and DL for the passport. It did seem like it was standard procedure there as same happened with both persons who went right before me. I understand it's not required but it's customary to have a picture ID on you, so it does not generally represent a problem. The fact that you had required a name change is the real issue. Glad it all worked out well.

[jsnearline 2]

I'm sure it didn't help that the person taking my wife's application was already almost a half hour behind schedule on their passport appointments. She seemed like she wasn't paying attention to anything we told her. She even got suspicious about the name change petition, asking what county court had approved it, when the petition plainly said it had been approved by the US District Court. I sure hope we didn't make any mistakes in the application, because I have no faith that the person taking it would have caught them.

[80k 0]

thanks for the warning on this. My wife will be dealing with the same thing as she will be changing her name and will only have her naturalization certificate as ID and proof of citizenship with her new name.

We can go to either the County clerk or post office. Hopefully the County clerk will be more likely to be well informed on this.

[NickD 203]

Probably just a new guy, always seem to have problems with new people being extra careful, wife's IO at her USC was new. Don't mind asking them if they are new when I run into things like that, and did they every read the rules of the game.

One advantage of living in a smaller town, folks at the post office, DMV, SS office, and city clerk all know me and I know them. Can't say that with the USCIS.