Novak confirms Rove was Plame source

[Luvinmybaby 0]

I think you need to check your facts a little closer. First of all, I saw the interview with Novak. He clearly stated that Rove was NOT the original source. Novak said that he only confirmed it. And even there is some dispute over that. Novak said that when he asked Rove about Plame Novak stated that Rove said "Oh' you know that to?" Rove states that he said "Oh, heard that to?" Very small difference but the bottom line is Rove didn't leak the name. Second point, Fitzgerald said that no one was charged with leaking Plame's name because SHE WASN'T COVERT AT THE TIME!!!!!! There wasn't a crime, thats why no one was charged!! Even the woman (I can't think of her name right now) that wrote the law about outing covert operators said that she wasn't covert. Jees guys! Get your facts right. You want Bush and all his cronies in jail so bad you make things up just to make yourselfs feel better!!!

You're right, he didn't leak it - but he was one of the primary 'confirming sources'. That's pretty crucial - because it provides legitimacy to the original claim.

Similarly why do you think it is that Scooter Libby is currently in jail awaiting trial for perjury and obtruction of justice. Obstructing, I might add the investigation that was to determine whether or not a crime (and breach of national security had taken place)

The argument that she was not 'covert' is little different to trial lawyers (of which the govt has many) twisting definitions and legalities to fit their interpretation of events. Fact was she did work for the CIA, she did have a classified 'non-official cover' status. That is not in doubt. The only question that has arisen is to what extent she was entitled to legal protection and secrecy.

Let me ask you this why do you think her name was leaked? Do you think it had nothing whatsoever to do with Joseph Wilson's trip to Nigeria and his informing the press that based on his investigation (and other reports) claims that Saddam Hussein had tried to purchase raw uranium in 1999 were totally unsubstantiated?

Novak said that it wasn't a Bush administration source that gave him the name. He got it elsewhere. You can't "leak" a name that's in Who's Who!! She outed herself. She had no legal protection. She was just a office worker of little importance. Her goal was to damage the Bush adminastration for her own reasons. The trip to Nigeria was not givin to Wilson by anyone official. The whole thing was just a political ploy.

[Luvinmybaby 0]

Read it from Novak himself:

Headline: Columnist Novak Comments on 'Anti-Bush Furor' - Robert D. Novak

Source: CyberCastNews

Date: October 01, 2003

By: Robert Novak

I had thought I never again would write about retired diplomat Joseph Wilson's CIA-employee wife, but feel constrained to do so now that repercussions of my July 14 column have reached the front pages of major newspapers and led off network news broadcasts. My role and the role of the Bush White House have been distorted and need explanation.

The leak now under Justice Department investigation is described by former Ambassador Wilson and critics of President Bush's Iraq policy as a reprehensible effort to silence them. To protect my own integrity and credibility, I would like to stress three points. First, I did not receive a planned leak. Second, the CIA never warned me that the disclosure of Wilson's wife working at the agency would endanger her or anybody else. Third, it was not much of a secret.

The current Justice investigation stems from a routine, mandated probe of all CIA leaks, but follows weeks of agitation. Wilson, after telling me in July that he would say nothing about his wife, has made investigation of the leak his life's work -- aided by the relentless Sen. Charles Schumer of New York. These efforts cannot be separated from the massive political assault on President Bush.

This story began July 6 when Wilson went public and identified himself as the retired diplomat who had reported negatively to the CIA in 2002 on alleged Iraq efforts to buy uranium yellowcake from Niger. I was curious why a high-ranking official in President Bill Clinton's National Security Council (NSC) was given this assignment. Wilson had become a vocal opponent of President Bush's policies in Iraq after contributing to Al Gore in the last election cycle and John Kerry in this one.

During a long conversation with a senior administration official, I asked why Wilson was assigned the mission to Niger. He said Wilson had been sent by the CIA's counterproliferation section at the suggestion of one of its employees, his wife. It was an offhand revelation from this official, who is no partisan gunslinger. When I called another official for confirmation, he said: "Oh, you know about it." The published report that somebody in the White House failed to plant this story with six reporters and finally found me as a willing pawn is simply untrue.

At the CIA, the official designated to talk to me denied that Wilson's wife had inspired his selection but said she was delegated to request his help. He asked me not to use her name, saying she probably never again will be given a foreign assignment but that exposure of her name might cause "difficulties" if she travels abroad. He never suggested to me that Wilson's wife or anybody else would be endangered. If he had, I would not have used her name. I used it in the sixth paragraph of my column because it looked like the missing explanation of an otherwise incredible choice by the CIA for its mission.

How big a secret was it? It was well known around Washington that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA. Republican activist Clifford May wrote Monday, in National Review Online, that he had been told of her identity by a non-government source before my column appeared and that it was common knowledge. Her name, Valerie Plame, was no secret either, appearing in Wilson's "Who's Who in America" entry.

A big question is her duties at Langley. I regret that I referred to her in my column as an "operative," a word I have lavished on hack politicians for more than 40 years. While the CIA refuses to publicly define her status, the official contact says she is "covered"-working under the guise of another agency. However, an unofficial source at the Agency says she has been an analyst, not in covert operations.

The Justice Department investigation was not requested by CIA Director George Tenet. Any leak of classified information is routinely passed by the Agency to Justice, averaging one a week. This investigative request was made in July shortly after the column was published. Reported only last weekend, the request ignited anti-Bush furor.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think you need to check your facts a little closer. First of all, I saw the interview with Novak. He clearly stated that Rove was NOT the original source. Novak said that he only confirmed it. And even there is some dispute over that. Novak said that when he asked Rove about Plame Novak stated that Rove said "Oh' you know that to?" Rove states that he said "Oh, heard that to?" Very small difference but the bottom line is Rove didn't leak the name. Second point, Fitzgerald said that no one was charged with leaking Plame's name because SHE WASN'T COVERT AT THE TIME!!!!!! There wasn't a crime, thats why no one was charged!! Even the woman (I can't think of her name right now) that wrote the law about outing covert operators said that she wasn't covert. Jees guys! Get your facts right. You want Bush and all his cronies in jail so bad you make things up just to make yourselfs feel better!!!

You're right, he didn't leak it - but he was one of the primary 'confirming sources'. That's pretty crucial - because it provides legitimacy to the original claim.

Similarly why do you think it is that Scooter Libby is currently in jail awaiting trial for perjury and obtruction of justice. Obstructing, I might add the investigation that was to determine whether or not a crime (and breach of national security had taken place)

The argument that she was not 'covert' is little different to trial lawyers (of which the govt has many) twisting definitions and legalities to fit their interpretation of events. Fact was she did work for the CIA, she did have a classified 'non-official cover' status. That is not in doubt. The only question that has arisen is to what extent she was entitled to legal protection and secrecy.

Let me ask you this why do you think her name was leaked? Do you think it had nothing whatsoever to do with Joseph Wilson's trip to Nigeria and his informing the press that based on his investigation (and other reports) claims that Saddam Hussein had tried to purchase raw uranium in 1999 were totally unsubstantiated?

Novak said that it wasn't a Bush administration source that gave him the name. He got it elsewhere. You can't "leak" a name that's in Who's Who!! She outed herself. She had no legal protection. She was just a office worker of little importance. Her goal was to damage the Bush adminastration for her own reasons. The trip to Nigeria was not givin to Wilson by anyone official. The whole thing was just a political ploy.

So was the government's justification for war

And BTW - this is someone who worked for a CIA shell company which the CIA has admitted was linked to investigations into the proliferation of WMD. Office worker of little importance. Hardly... She did have an NOC status (again the question to which secrecy applies is in whether she held a covert post overseas for 5 years). As I said, twisting legalities and definitions - he had a high level security clearance, which the CIA was going

Rove confirmed it. He could have said 'no comment', or in fact, nothing at all. But he didn't - he purposefully confirmed it.

They got the name from 'who's who', as being married to Joseph Wilson. What was not clear, and the substance of the leak, was that she worked for the CIA. That allowed Novak to put 2+2 together, again with the help of administration officials.

Again I said, why is Scooter Libby indicted for perjury? Similarly Why did Karl Rove resign? If there was no crime, no wrongdoing....?

Why was the "yellowcake" claim included Bush's 2003 SOTU speech, when there were already significant doubts as to its authenticity (which Wilson's trip merely confirmed).

During a long conversation with a senior administration official, I asked why Wilson was assigned the mission to Niger. He said Wilson had been sent by the CIA's counterproliferation section at the suggestion of one of its employees, his wife.

As I said above.

Read Novak's article from the other day (at the beginning of the thread).

[Luvinmybaby 0]

During a long conversation with a senior administration official, I asked why Wilson was assigned the mission to Niger. He said Wilson had been sent by the CIA's counterproliferation section at the suggestion of one of its employees, his wife.

As I said above.

Read Novak's article from the other day (at the beginning of the thread).

Plame was the one that first had the idea to send Wilson. Plame WAS the CIA's counterproliferation official that sent him. It was an inside hachet job thought up by Plame and she used her husbands position to her own ends. If it were a "official" CIA operation Wilson would not have published his findings. It would have been secret!!! It was a setup from the begining.

But your getting away from the original point of the post. "Novak confirms Rove was Plame source" is an untrue statement. If you read the article I posted all of Washington knew Plame worked at the CIA. Rove was NOT the source and Novak himself said it wasn't a planned leak by Bush.

It was an offhand revelation from this official, who is no partisan gunslinger. When I called another official for confirmation, he said: "Oh, you know about it." The published report that somebody in the White House failed to plant this story with six reporters and finally found me as a willing pawn is simply untrue.

You should have quoted the rest of the statment. That really says it all.

Edited July 15, 2006 by Luvinmybaby

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Plame was the one that first had the idea to send Wilson. Plame WAS the CIA's counterproliferation official that sent him. It was an inside hachet job thought up by Plame and she used her husbands position to her own ends.

If it were a "official" CIA operation Wilson would not have published his findings. It would have been secret!!! It was a setup from the begining.

A set up for what exactly? That they had an agenda? I'm sure they did. But that still doesn't get away from the fact that the Nigeria claims were false, claims which featured prominently in Bush's SOTU speech and in their justification for war with Iraq. Claims I might add that were already seriously questionable at least a year before Wilson's trip to Nigeria.

Not only that but whole issue arising out of it is that government officials punished Wilson and his wife for presenting this to the media, and to the public. The basis of Wilson's argument was true, regardless of whether or not his trip there was officially sanctioned.

But your getting away from the original point of the post. "Novak confirms Rove was Plame source" is an untrue statement. If you read the article I posted all of Washington knew Plame worked at the CIA. Rove was NOT the source and Novak himself said it wasn't a planned leak by Bush.

Sure Rove was not the primary source, I agree with you there, he was a 'confirming source' as I've said. And knowing what his position was in the administration, its simply ludicrous to suggest he didn't know exactly what he was doing and what the implications of it would be. He legitimised the claims.

As to Plames name being 'well known around Washingon' , it doesn't say 'when'. News travels fast - and all that

Patrick Fitzgerald, the guy who investigated the affair had this to say:

Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer. In July 2003, the fact that Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer was classified. Not only was it classified, but it was not widely known outside the intelligence community. Valerie Wilson's friends, neighbors, college classmates had no idea she had another life. The fact that she was a CIA officer was not well-known, for her protection or for the benefit of all us. It's important that a CIA officer's identity be protected, that it be protected not just for the officer, but for the nation's security. Valerie Wilson's cover was blown in July 2003. The first sign of that cover being blown was when Mr. Novak published a column on July 14th, 2003.

Edited July 15, 2006 by erekose

[Luvinmybaby 0]

How big a secret was it? It was well known around Washington that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA. Republican activist Clifford May wrote Monday, in National Review Online, that he had been told of her identity by a non-government source before my column appeared and that it was common knowledge. Her name, Valerie Plame, was no secret either, appearing in Wilson's "Who's Who in America" entry.

A big question is her duties at Langley. I regret that I referred to her in my column as an "operative," a word I have lavished on hack politicians for more than 40 years. While the CIA refuses to publicly define her status, the official contact says she is "covered"-working under the guise of another agency. However, an unofficial source at the Agency says she has been an analyst, not in covert operations.

Face it Fishy, the anti-Bush libs were hoping to get a big juicy scandal that would take out Rove, Cheney and maybe even Bush. It didn't work out for you. This one is dead. You need to move on the the next lib-manufactured media driven scandal and try your luck there.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

How big a secret was it? It was well known around Washington that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA. Republican activist Clifford May wrote Monday, in National Review Online, that he had been told of her identity by a non-government source before my column appeared and that it was common knowledge. Her name, Valerie Plame, was no secret either, appearing in Wilson's "Who's Who in America" entry.

A big question is her duties at Langley. I regret that I referred to her in my column as an "operative," a word I have lavished on hack politicians for more than 40 years. While the CIA refuses to publicly define her status, the official contact says she is "covered"-working under the guise of another agency. However, an unofficial source at the Agency says she has been an analyst, not in covert operations.

Face it Fishy, the anti-Bush libs were hoping to get a big juicy scandal that would take out Rove, Cheney and maybe even Bush. It didn't work out for you. This one is dead. You need to move on the the next lib-manufactured media driven scandal and try your luck there.

You seem to see it as a politically motivated conspiracy fabricated by alleged 'liberals'. I see it as further evidence of this governments continued duplicity over the war, and a testament to how it respondes to any voice opposition with dirty tricks.

In any case I don't think 'liberals' actually exist in the sense that they are portrayed by the Likes of Ann Coulter, Bill O'Reilly andn Rush Limbaugh, any more than you can go fishing in the sea and catch a mermaid.

As I said, the outing of Plame is tangential to the central issue that Wilson was right about the Nigeria uranium claims. They were false, not only that but they were already compromised when they were used in Bush's 2003 SOTU speech. They were also heavily in doubt before Wilson visited Nigeria.

Edited July 15, 2006 by erekose

[Luvinmybaby 0]

You seem to see it as a politically motivated conspiracy fabricated by alleged 'liberals'. I see it as further evidence of this governments continued duplicity over the war, and a testament to how it respondes to any voice opposition with dirty tricks.

In any case I don't think 'liberals' actually exist in the sense that they are portrayed by the Likes of Ann Coulter, Bill O'Reilly andn Rush Limbaugh, any more than you can go fishing in the sea and catch a mermaid.

Oh I see, liberals don't exist! Yet another vast right wing conspiracy!!

And with that ladies and gentlemen I will bid you goodbye. I think Fishy has made my point. Go ahead, I give you the last word.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You seem to see it as a politically motivated conspiracy fabricated by alleged 'liberals'. I see it as further evidence of this governments continued duplicity over the war, and a testament to how it respondes to any voice opposition with dirty tricks.

In any case I don't think 'liberals' actually exist in the sense that they are portrayed by the Likes of Ann Coulter, Bill O'Reilly andn Rush Limbaugh, any more than you can go fishing in the sea and catch a mermaid.

Oh I see, liberals don't exist! Yet another vast right wing conspiracy!!

And with that ladies and gentlemen I will bid you goodbye. I think Fishy has made my point. Go ahead, I give you the last word.

Well to be fair you didn't read what I said - I don't think 'liberals' actually exist in the sense that they are portrayed by the Likes of Ann Coulter, Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh Note that I didn't politicise this by throwing in labels at what I perceivee to the people holding one side of the issue, as you have.

I think the issue is wider than partisan politics. Unfortunately however, it seems every issue must be tainted with it.

As I said, the point here is that is getting lost is that Wilson was essentially right. You didn't provide any mention of that whatsoever.

[Luvinmybaby 0]

As I said, the point here is that is getting lost is that Wilson was essentially right. You didn't provide any mention of that whatsoever.

And that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Sorry, now you can have the last word.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As I said, the point here is that is getting lost is that Wilson was essentially right. You didn't provide any mention of that whatsoever.

And that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Sorry, now you can have the last word.

Has everything to do with it - its the central issue. This issue with Plame and Wilson arose from administration officials effectively punishing someone for contradicting the party line and weakening their case for this war. Essentially they're saying that the needs of the party should come before telling the truth, and what is 'right' or moral comes much further down on the list.

No need to get angry or pissy. I'm not

Edited July 16, 2006 by erekose

[one...two...tree 2,762]

How big a secret was it? It was well known around Washington that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA. Republican activist Clifford May wrote Monday, in National Review Online, that he had been told of her identity by a non-government source before my column appeared and that it was common knowledge. Her name, Valerie Plame, was no secret either, appearing in Wilson's "Who's Who in America" entry.

A big question is her duties at Langley. I regret that I referred to her in my column as an "operative," a word I have lavished on hack politicians for more than 40 years. While the CIA refuses to publicly define her status, the official contact says she is "covered"-working under the guise of another agency. However, an unofficial source at the Agency says she has been an analyst, not in covert operations.

Face it Fishy, the anti-Bush libs were hoping to get a big juicy scandal that would take out Rove, Cheney and maybe even Bush. It didn't work out for you. This one is dead. You need to move on the the next lib-manufactured media driven scandal and try your luck there.

...and were you defending Clinton over the 40 million dollar witchhunt from Ken Star that led to no indictments? Is it always just politics as usual or just when it's your boys that are under the spotlight?

[Luvinmybaby 0]

Oh no, I am not angry at all. Just wanting to stay on topic. If you want to start a new topic and discuss what Wilson found or didn't find in Niger or why he was sent I would love to debate that. I personally don't like threads that start out on topic A and end up on topic Z. No way to carry on a coherent debate that way.

Steve, same comment to you, if you want to talk about Clinton and his problems that is best done in a new thread.

Edited July 16, 2006 by Luvinmybaby

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Oh no, I am not angry at all. Just wanting to stay on topic. If you want to start a new topic and discuss what Wilson found or didn't find in Niger or why he was sent I would love to debate that. I personally don't like threads that start out on topic A and end up on topic Z. No way to carry on a coherent debate that way.

On the one hand you have what the guy found, and on the other you have what happened (to him) as a result of it. I don't think that is separate at all, I do think it is entirely typical of the way in which this government treats dissenting voices.

[Luvinmybaby 0]

Well, since the name of this topic was "Novak confirms Rove was Plame source" and he showed an article about how Novak got his info I do think getting into Wilson and what he did or didn't find is off topic. It may be the narrow view and you are free to disagree but that is the way I see it.