Do the Research... and whatever else!

[Staashi 371]

Awww! Michael! I love it! Now I have Thriller in my head....

Sing along....

<-- Singing - Cuz this is Thriller. Thriller night...<doing my Thriller dance like the movie 13 Going on 30>

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

[bhajishah 4]

eh yah its a real love fest around here these days!!

[doodlebugg 10]

can't this friggin thread be closed already? I mean basically its now just a blah blah blah thread with the occaisional fu in the mix.

[Nothing1234 2]

<---continues chorus - And no one's gonna save you from the beast about to strike <love that movie too Stashhhh> Still dancing!!!

Oh and I can't wait for the Vincent Price part (You should should hear my impression!)....

Edited September 9, 2009 by Nawal

[doodlebugg 10]

As a member of the wolf pack I take offense to the term "crack head" seeing as I don't even smoke hash let alone crack. However, "Flower", you've posted while under the influence of something on several occasions...it's quite obvious.

I like this term "wolf pack"...what would the opposite of that be? "Pansy pack"?

If grown assed women can't take criticism on a message board then how in the hell are they able to get through their day dealing with a grumpy husband, whiny kids, bitchy co-workers, a-hole bosses, and various other jerks you encounter along the way?

Jeezus.

Hey, Kara! I'm a certified wolf. Remember back to the "#######" days and "gross and abnormal"? It wasn't all bad lol. We had some fun, too

The OT ecofriendly ####### thread made me think of THIS that I saw the other day in the mall. I wonder what that would do?

[ya falaha! 0]

That looks intriguing....

[aya*abouelnasr 0]

It does what it says, massages back, neck and shoulder muscles. I could certainly use one of those babies to relieve my stress.

[~Jackie~ 30]

....say hello to my little friend

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

This is the second time that I never did get to finish unpacking my points and putting the dispute into context as I was too busy defending character assassinations. I was going to write a whole post further illustrating my points on the subject of membership behavior and go deeper to the real meat of the issue with links citing examples since I was given written permission by the individual to go there as they opened themselves up to it and further stating they really didn't care what was said about them by anyone.

However, I hesitated to continue asserting my first amendment right to freedom of speech because the owner of this site kindly asked to refrain from personal attacks and the perimeters of that are vague. I also know if I did go there it would further aggravate those members who are chomping at the bits with me thus further aggravating moderators and my voice would be drown out by being pissed on again. Yelling over the top of another is not an engaging discussion. It's like a five year old putting their fingers in their ears and singing "la la la", I won't listen to you because I don't like you or what you have to say. But this is just an example of what I was getting at. So I will try to keep this as loose as possible in order to finally put it to bed.

So what I will say is whether anyone likes it or not the function of free speech under our government is to invite dispute as long as what you are doing is not provoking a physical dispute. Every idea is an incitement. The first amendment protects the right to advocate abhorrent ideas as long as it doesn't intend to incite or produce illegal activity or violence, or is hate speech that demeans others based on race, color, gender, ethnicity, religion, disability, intellect, or with the intent to cause fear or bodily harm or death - it has to be an immediate threat directed toward one or more specific individuals with intent to cause listeners to fear for safety.

To answer LaL's question the reason so many people complained about it is because a member incited it. They made a call to action in the daily thread at the time to the muslima sisterhood on here to protect the alpha and their religious ideals as the thread was not a reflection of MENA even though the majority were MENA members and to guide sisters back to the flock. There was more to the story then they told and lacked the display of a simple sense of fairness and objectivity portraying only one side of the fight. The context they painted pertaining to the topic was over the top. It was this perspective that was used to weave their opinions and leanings as objective facts, rather than simply what took place before ALL eyes. That’s the very definition, if you will, of a “high school mentality” or group think of a wolf pack. While some valid points were made in regards to membership safety I respectfully disagree with the tone that was taken. They were able to turn the wheels of democracy and the squeaky wheel gets the grease but Islam is not a democracy. There is no room in religious to dispute God's law with the faithful only man's interpretation of it. This is why we have separation of church and state here. They were able to enforce through continuous complaint to adminstration and imposed their religious views stifling the freedom of speech of other innocent members who merely engaging their first amendment rights and disputing the controversy brought. That was the real injustice that was done. Furthermore this behavior alienated membership and drove some away completely and many to the point of posting from time to time. Even I found myself driven to the other site they all talk about to vent my anger. I suppose I deserve some of what I get and for that I apologize again but I am tired of the headache they bring me about it and have asked numerous times for the Administration over there to completely remove my profile and all content to stop this and further aggravation they bring against me.

If the ones that brought the controversy to the group wanted to make a point they could have been nice about it and given their warning and left. We are all adults and we can make our own decisions. Perhaps if they hadn't of force feed their ideals down the throats of those newer members and had taken a kinder approach then just possibly those members would have stuck around long enough and found their way to the path of Allah the way as I understand it's supposed to be. Instead they choose to continue posting to the point of harassment mocking the group, and making unrealistic request such as we go start our own website. Not one of us ever went into their Muslim thread and did to them. It was completely uncalled for.

This is the real root of why they all hate me and give me continuous grief slamming me whenever they see the opportunity to. It's because I challenged Islam and question their ethics and unscrupulous methods of what they did. And then they hide behind the skirts of Islam here citing freedom of speech while suppressing my free speech as I'm in the "minority" here and they don't want the truth of just how many non-mena, non-religious women marry "their kind", which is what the group was showing and bringing out a camaraderie at a rapid pace and this drew and friendly muslimas even joined which is why it drew the alpha wolf's scent. By doing what was done it only stopped controversy among that group and gave them a sense of what they did was right when it really wasn't.

This is not a personal attack as it's an old issue for me that I was forced to let go. But if they're going to bring it up as a bad thing against me then they invite an airing of the truth of the other side. The vent that has been long over due. That's the rest of it. I've said my peace. Now peace out.

[~*Dorothy*~ 2]

Very intriguing, Bridget - good find!

[Nagishkaw 510]

This is the second time that I never did get to finish unpacking my points and putting the dispute into context as I was too busy defending character assassinations. I was going to write a whole post further illustrating my points on the subject of membership behavior and go deeper to the real meat of the issue with links citing examples since I was given written permission by the individual to go there as they opened themselves up to it and further stating they really didn't care what was said about them by anyone.

However, I hesitated to continue asserting my first amendment right to freedom of speech because the owner of this site kindly asked to refrain from personal attacks and the perimeters of that are vague. I also know if I did go there it would further aggravate those members who are chomping at the bits with me thus further aggravating moderators and my voice would be drown out by being pissed on again. Yelling over the top of another is not an engaging discussion. It's like a five year old putting their fingers in their ears and singing "la la la", I won't listen to you because I don't like you or what you have to say. But this is just an example of what I was getting at. So I will try to keep this as loose as possible in order to finally put it to bed.

So what I will say is whether anyone likes it or not the function of free speech under our government is to invite dispute as long as what you are doing is not provoking a physical dispute. Every idea is an incitement. The first amendment protects the right to advocate abhorrent ideas as long as it doesn't intend to incite or produce illegal activity or violence, or is hate speech that demeans others based on race, color, gender, ethnicity, religion, disability, intellect, or with the intent to cause fear or bodily harm or death - it has to be an immediate threat directed toward one or more specific individuals with intent to cause listeners to fear for safety.

To answer LaL's question the reason so many people complained about it is because a member incited it. They made a call to action in the daily thread at the time to the muslima sisterhood on here to protect the alpha and their religious ideals as the thread was not a reflection of MENA even though the majority were MENA members and to guide sisters back to the flock. There was more to the story then they told and lacked the display of a simple sense of fairness and objectivity portraying only one side of the fight. The context they painted pertaining to the topic was over the top. It was this perspective that was used to weave their opinions and leanings as objective facts, rather than simply what took place before ALL eyes. That’s the very definition, if you will, of a “high school mentality” or group think of a wolf pack. While some valid points were made in regards to membership safety I respectfully disagree with the tone that was taken. They were able to turn the wheels of democracy and the squeaky wheel gets the grease but Islam is not a democracy. There is no room in religious to dispute God's law with the faithful only man's interpretation of it. This is why we have separation of church and state here. They were able to enforce through continuous complaint to adminstration and imposed their religious views stifling the freedom of speech of other innocent members who merely engaging their first amendment rights and disputing the controversy brought. That was the real injustice that was done. Furthermore this behavior alienated membership and drove some away completely and many to the point of posting from time to time. Even I found myself driven to the other site they all talk about to vent my anger. I suppose I deserve some of what I get and for that I apologize again but I am tired of the headache they bring me about it and have asked numerous times for the Administration over there to completely remove my profile and all content to stop this and further aggravation they bring against me.

If the ones that brought the controversy to the group wanted to make a point they could have been nice about it and given their warning and left. We are all adults and we can make our own decisions. Perhaps if they hadn't of force feed their ideals down the throats of those newer members and had taken a kinder approach then just possibly those members would have stuck around long enough and found their way to the path of Allah the way as I understand it's supposed to be. Instead they choose to continue posting to the point of harassment mocking the group, and making unrealistic request such as we go start our own website. Not one of us ever went into their Muslim thread and did to them. It was completely uncalled for.

This is the real root of why they all hate me and give me continuous grief slamming me whenever they see the opportunity to. It's because I challenged Islam and question their ethics and unscrupulous methods of what they did. And then they hide behind the skirts of Islam here citing freedom of speech while suppressing my free speech as I'm in the "minority" here and they don't want the truth of just how many non-mena, non-religious women marry "their kind", which is what the group was showing and bringing out a camaraderie at a rapid pace and this drew and friendly muslimas even joined which is why it drew the alpha wolf's scent. By doing what was done it only stopped controversy among that group and gave them a sense of what they did was right when it really wasn't.

This is not a personal attack as it's an old issue for me that I was forced to let go. But if they're going to bring it up as a bad thing against me then they invite an airing of the truth of the other side. The vent that has been long over due. That's the rest of it. I've said my peace. Now peace out.

Best post of the day!

[Jenn! 918]

Olivia, I don't remember if I voiced any objection to it at the time, but I didn't think the HAC was a very good idea either. And I'm not muslim. While some of the objection to it may have been made from the perspective of a muslima, IIRC there were many muslimas who participated in that thread, as well as many non-muslimas, such as myself, who did not. I'm not sure it's fair to characterize the whole issue as being rooted in religious disagreement.

As for the squeaky wheel getting the grease. Well, I would say that's certainly true to some extent here. Nobody likes to listen to a squeaky wheel. And not having any real incentive to continue to have to listen to it, it's often just easier to get rid of the "problem" and be done with it.

The first amendment thing gets brought up often around here in relation to people's self-expression and moderation of the site. But at the end of the day, VJ is not a microcosm of our constitutional republic. It's a privately-owned site where the admin has full control over the content.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Right I should rephrase that. I didn't personally challenge Islam but in their minds I did as the OP of the thread. I also agree with you Jenn like I told LaL. I understand it was really a matter of maintaining the status quo and I was the different one. A thorn in their side. The lucky one.

If anyone else has a complaint with me they can file it with Saint Olivia! The Patron Saint of Scape Goats in the Department of Indifference.

[Melly 2 0]

I really wanted to post a comment but couldn't find exactly the right thing to say.

My husband suggested the following video, Paranoid, by Black Sabbath. Enjoy!

Paranoid