Young Pioneers pledge to be of service to Obama

[_Simpson_ 250]

Why would I object to it? Was my Free Enterprise teacher indoctrinating me when he had the whole class watch videos of Milton Friedman telling us his utopian ideas of the free market? Or the numerous times in school where we listened to the sitting President at that time make a speech? I'm mean really. Can you guys who didn't vote for Obama just resign to the fact that he is our President? Can't you find some more legitimate issues this country is facing than gasp every time Obama blows his nose? Get over it already...seriously.

You keep bringing up other things, why? Two wrongs dont make a right. Show some consistency. You disagreed with what Reagan did right?

So if we address things like this we get accused of not being able to resign to the fact he is our president.... good grief. We have addressed huge issues like health care countless times, nobody's ignoring the big issues. We want to address these smaller things too and rightly so without being accused of being sour about Obama winning the election. We simply dont agree with it for good reasons, seriously stop accusing us of this sour grape nonsense. Its only a matter of time when you pull out your sour grape pic again.

Nope. What I'm saying is that it is NOT INDOCRINATION! Propaganda, yes. Does propaganda bother me when it's the government doing it? It depends on the context. It is what it is and historically, you can trace political propaganda all the way back to the American Revolution.

The selective outrage, however, is nothing but sour grapes. Believe me, I'm going to compile a list of all the episodes of fake outrage by the Right Wingers the moment Obama was sworn in as President, including that one. It'll be a real crack up.

I havent used either of those words, I have kept it simple. I asked should they be showing these videos to elementary kids. You had no problem with is, I tried to point out that you were not ok with it when Reagan did it, you then gave me the context excuse. It was politically motivated, there elementary kids for crying out loud.

Nothing really wrong with this video other than how began and ended. Left or right this video shouldnt be showed in school. I would think this is common sense.

Edited September 3, 2009 by _Simpson_

[_Simpson_ 250]

I havent used either of those words, I have kept it simple. I asked should they be showing these videos to elementary kids. You had no problem with is, I tried to point out that you were not ok with it when Reagan did it, you then gave me the context excuse. It was politically motivated, there elementary kids for crying out loud.

Nothing really wrong with this video other than how began and ended and the pledging to Obama in between. Left or right this video shouldnt be showed in school. I would think this is common sense.

personal fix

[GabiandVi 34]

Gabi, if you really think that is a complete definition of the word and its meaning, then you should logically conclude that all schooling of children is a form of indoctrination. And if that is true, than indoctrination of our youth is happening everyday, in classrooms around the country. Should we then expand our outrage over our children being indoctrinated to all who are guilty of such an atrocity?

And again, you do not understand your own definition or the more common one. Did you read it? Teaching children the facts about history is not indoctrination by your definition or the one I quoted. Teaching children about math, grammar, spelling, art, civics, etc., is not indoctrination by your definition or the one I quoted. Teaching children not to pollute because it is morally wrong IS indoctrination, and it worked in my generaration. Teaching children that smoking is harmful by showing them a smoker's lung and having Brooke Shields say she didn't like to kiss someone who smoked, or whatever she said in those ads, is indoctrination by my definition, maybe not by yours. And this video IS indoctrination from start to finish. MOST of it I have no quarrel with any more than I would quarrel with the indoctrination I received about littering.

But, I'll say it for the dozenth time, that last sequence was creepy, and I believe or HOPE that Obama would find it creepy. If you don't see the creepiness, then you are evidence of the success of this indoctrination.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Gabi, if you really think that is a complete definition of the word and its meaning, then you should logically conclude that all schooling of children is a form of indoctrination. And if that is true, than indoctrination of our youth is happening everyday, in classrooms around the country. Should we then expand our outrage over our children being indoctrinated to all who are guilty of such an atrocity?

And again, you do not understand your own definition or the more common one. Did you read it? Teaching children the facts about history is not indoctrination by your definition or the one I quoted. Teaching children about math, grammar, spelling, art, civics, etc., is not indoctrination by your definition or the one I quoted. Teaching children not to pollute because it is morally wrong IS indoctrination, and it worked in my generaration. Teaching children that smoking is harmful by showing them a smoker's lung and having Brooke Shields say she didn't like to kiss someone who smoked, or whatever she said in those ads, is indoctrination by my definition, maybe not by yours. And this video IS indoctrination from start to finish. MOST of it I have no quarrel with any more than I would quarrel with the indoctrination I received about littering.

But, I'll say it for the dozenth time, that last sequence was creepy, and I believe or HOPE that Obama would find it creepy. If you don't see the creepiness, then you are evidence of the success of this indoctrination.

Sorry Gabi, but that is a very narrow definition of indoctrination. It is propaganda in nature to have Mr. Tooth come to class and tell young children how important it is to brush, but I wouldn't call that indoctrination. I would reserve the term indoctrination to situations like David Koresh and the Branch Davidians. If you choose to use the word loosely to define telling kids to brush their teeth then what else can I say. I can only imagine what a dark and suspicious world it must be like to have the idea in your head that raising children is all about indoctrinating them with the right messages. I indoctrinated my stepson that there is a Santa Claus, but now that he's 8 yrs. old, I have a sneaky suspicion that he's already questioning it. So much for that indoctrination. I'll have to move on to less conspicuous indoctrinations like encouraging him to read more...which of course will indoctrinate him more.

[Otto 83]

Indoctrination? Or just a bill, on capitol hill?

[GabiandVi 34]

Gabi, if you really think that is a complete definition of the word and its meaning, then you should logically conclude that all schooling of children is a form of indoctrination. And if that is true, than indoctrination of our youth is happening everyday, in classrooms around the country. Should we then expand our outrage over our children being indoctrinated to all who are guilty of such an atrocity?

And again, you do not understand your own definition or the more common one. Did you read it? Teaching children the facts about history is not indoctrination by your definition or the one I quoted. Teaching children about math, grammar, spelling, art, civics, etc., is not indoctrination by your definition or the one I quoted. Teaching children not to pollute because it is morally wrong IS indoctrination, and it worked in my generaration. Teaching children that smoking is harmful by showing them a smoker's lung and having Brooke Shields say she didn't like to kiss someone who smoked, or whatever she said in those ads, is indoctrination by my definition, maybe not by yours. And this video IS indoctrination from start to finish. MOST of it I have no quarrel with any more than I would quarrel with the indoctrination I received about littering.

But, I'll say it for the dozenth time, that last sequence was creepy, and I believe or HOPE that Obama would find it creepy. If you don't see the creepiness, then you are evidence of the success of this indoctrination.

Sorry Gabi, but that is a very narrow definition of indoctrination. It is propaganda in nature to have Mr. Tooth come to class and tell young children how important it is to brush, but I wouldn't call that indoctrination. I would reserve the term indoctrination to situations like David Koresh and the Branch Davidians. If you choose to use the word loosely to define telling kids to brush their teeth then what else can I say. I can only imagine what a dark and suspicious world it must be like to have the idea in your head that raising children is all about indoctrinating them with the right messages. I indoctrinated my stepson that there is a Santa Claus, but now that he's 8 yrs. old, I have a sneaky suspicion that he's already questioning it. So much for that indoctrination. I'll have to move on to less conspicuous indoctrinations like encouraging him to read more...which of course will indoctrinate him more.

Again, you are caught up in semantics, but I guess you don't understand what that means, so I'll let it drop. If you think influencing kids to think a certain way that has nothing to do with facts but everything to do with ideology, belief systems, morality, social acceptance (indoctrination) is necessarily dark, then you probably do have a dark, suspicious view of the world. But hold on to your narrow (and I guess you don't understand the meaning of that word either if you think your definition is broad and mine, the one from the dictionary, is narrow) definition of the term if it makes you feel better and allows you to deny that there is something really wrong with the end of this video. Or just continue to ignore the ending, whatever you are doing so that you never address it.

You will not question the video. That is your definition of indoctrination.

[GabiandVi 34]

Indoctrination? Or just a bill, on capitol hill?

Is this a comment on the video or the definition of indoctrination? I don't see the connection between this and the video and I don't see any definition of indoctrination that would equate School House Rock with indoctrination. Perhaps the one about healthy snacks, but not "I'm Just a Bill." Or "Lolly, Lolly, Lolly, Get Your Adverbs Here." Etc.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Gabi, I hope that if you have school aged children, you'll watch over them carefully to make sure no one is trying to indoctrinate them to think the wrong way. And yes, liberalism is all about getting kids to think narrowly about issues....to believe there's only one right answer to everything. That indeed is the hallmark of liberalism.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

[GabiandVi 34]

Gabi, I hope that if you have school aged children, you'll watch over them carefully to make sure no one is trying to indoctrinate them to think the wrong way. And yes, liberalism is all about getting kids to think narrowly about issues....to believe there's only one right answer to everything. That indeed is the hallmark of liberalism.

Where the h*ll have you seen me suggest that? I think you are confusing me with someone else. You don't know anything about me. I have a child who is not school-aged. AND I'm a teacher. You are either too dense to understand or refuse to understand that I do NOT think that teaching children about history, math, science, etc., is indoctrination. AND I would like to see more indoctrination when it comes to what is acceptable and what is unacceptable behavior and values.

I have seen teachers on both sides of the fence who attempt to indoctrinate their students to their political persuasions. I would estimate it is more "Right Wing" indoctrination in my district than "Left Wing," but I could quote you instances that would make even you admit there is indoctrination going on, though you'd only ever admit that there is "Right Wing" indoctrination no matter how blatant the examples of "Left Wing" indoctrination I gave you. I won't quote because it would be gossipy and unprofessional on my part, but these aren't things I've read on a website. This is just in my 17 years of experience teaching in only one section of the country and in a few places around the world, so I can only imagine how prevalent this is around the country. But I don't worry so much about it because I plan to keep aware of what my daughter is learning and I will discuss it with her. I hope she is exposed to completely opposing viewpoints so that she is not narrow-minded. I want her to hear both sides and make an educated, logical conclusion, but of course, I will influence her as any good parent does. And I learned about most of these attempts by overhearing students discussing it and dismissing it. So I know that when it isn't consistent and overwhelming and when it isn't presented by someone whom the students hero-worship, it doesn't work very often.

I think you would be surprised by the content that I teach in my classroom. EVEN you would never accuse me of indoctrinating my students into conservatism, but there might be some extremist who would accuse me of being too "left wing" in my presentation.

I do not think that liberalism is about getting kids to think narrowly about issues. Can you say the same about your beliefs of conservatism?

[Danno 1,228]

After watching it for a second time, The most interesting part of this whole vid is: I'll bet you anything, the people who collectively put this thing together never flinched for a moment, never questioned for a second if this was going too far, or that someone might object.

This is the isolated world they live in.

[GabiandVi 34]

After watching it for a second time, The most interesting part of this whole vid is: I'll bet you anything, the people who collectively put this thing together never flinched for a moment, never questioned for a second if this was going too far, or that someone might object.

This is the isolated world they live in.

That's what I find frightening about it. The cult of personality has already taken hold.

[Otto 83]

Is this a comment on the video or the definition of indoctrination? I don't see the connection between this and the video and I don't see any definition of indoctrination that would equate School House Rock with indoctrination. Perhaps the one about healthy snacks, but not "I'm Just a Bill." Or "Lolly, Lolly, Lolly, Get Your Adverbs Here." Etc.

Well more of a comment on how ridiculous most of this discussion is.

Pure and simple - it is politically motivated witch hunt.

[GabiandVi 34]

Is this a comment on the video or the definition of indoctrination? I don't see the connection between this and the video and I don't see any definition of indoctrination that would equate School House Rock with indoctrination. Perhaps the one about healthy snacks, but not "I'm Just a Bill." Or "Lolly, Lolly, Lolly, Get Your Adverbs Here." Etc.

Well more of a comment on how ridiculous most of this discussion is.

Pure and simple - it is politically motivated witch hunt.

Did Obama put this out? I never got that? Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think he was even consulted, so I don't see how it can be a politcally motivated witch hunt. I agree, a lot of people will use it to make hay, but that doesn't mean there is nothing wrong with it.

Did you watch the video? Do you approve of the final sequence? It doesn't make you cringe at the creepiness of it? Or at least make you roll your eyes at the complete idiocy of it? Do you not see shades of "Our Dear Leader" in it?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Gabi, I hope that if you have school aged children, you'll watch over them carefully to make sure no one is trying to indoctrinate them to think the wrong way. And yes, liberalism is all about getting kids to think narrowly about issues....to believe there's only one right answer to everything. That indeed is the hallmark of liberalism.

Where the h*ll have you seen me suggest that? I think you are confusing me with someone else. You don't know anything about me. I have a child who is not school-aged. AND I'm a teacher. You are either too dense to understand or refuse to understand that I do NOT think that teaching children about history, math, science, etc., is indoctrination. AND I would like to see more indoctrination when it comes to what is acceptable and what is unacceptable behavior and values.

I have seen teachers on both sides of the fence who attempt to indoctrinate their students to their political persuasions. I would estimate it is more "Right Wing" indoctrination in my district than "Left Wing," but I could quote you instances that would make even you admit there is indoctrination going on, though you'd only ever admit that there is "Right Wing" indoctrination no matter how blatant the examples of "Left Wing" indoctrination I gave you. I won't quote because it would be gossipy and unprofessional on my part, but these aren't things I've read on a website. This is just in my 17 years of experience teaching in only one section of the country and in a few places around the world, so I can only imagine how prevalent this is around the country. But I don't worry so much about it because I plan to keep aware of what my daughter is learning and I will discuss it with her. I hope she is exposed to completely opposing viewpoints so that she is not narrow-minded. I want her to hear both sides and make an educated, logical conclusion, but of course, I will influence her as any good parent does. And I learned about most of these attempts by overhearing students discussing it and dismissing it. So I know that when it isn't consistent and overwhelming and when it isn't presented by someone whom the students hero-worship, it doesn't work very often.

I think you would be surprised by the content that I teach in my classroom. EVEN you would never accuse me of indoctrinating my students into conservatism, but there might be some extremist who would accuse me of being too "left wing" in my presentation.

I do not think that liberalism is about getting kids to think narrowly about issues. Can you say the same about your beliefs of conservatism?

Gabi, as a teacher, have you ever used the term indoctrinate when discussing curriculum with other teachers or school administrators and if so, were they also using that term to describe what they were trying to do with regard to student behavior, for example?