Young Pioneers pledge to be of service to Obama

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Steve Im curious, do you support showing this in elementary schools? You havent been to clear about that

Why would I object to it? Was my Free Enterprise teacher indoctrinating me when he had the whole class watch videos of Milton Friedman telling us his utopian ideas of the free market? Or the numerous times in school where we listened to the sitting President at that time make a speech? I'm mean really. Can you guys who didn't vote for Obama just resign to the fact that he is our President? Can't you find some more legitimate issues this country is facing than gasp every time Obama blows his nose? Get over it already...seriously.

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov...ehomefront.html

I noticed not so much as a blink of an eye over this one.... Indoctrination my #######.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Col. 'Bat' Guano

[Danno 1,228]

Nov 1988: Ronald Reagan spoke to students, telecast on CSPAN. In q&a talked about opposition to gun control and other issues.

Link.

Since your link did not clarify...... did a student "ask him" a question about Gun Control?

It's funny you can't find anything even close to this in all those GOP Whitehouse years.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Nov 1988: Ronald Reagan spoke to students, telecast on CSPAN. In q&a talked about opposition to gun control and other issues.

Link.

Since your link did not clarify...... did a student "ask him" a question about Gun Control?

It's funny you can't find anything even close to this in all those GOP Whitehouse years.

Post #32 or right above you at Post #46. Click on it to enlarge if you can't see the fine print. That was during GW Bush's term in office. White House Kids.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

"Radical leftist propaganda"

People do love to exaggerate

[_Simpson_ 250]

Why would I object to it? Was my Free Enterprise teacher indoctrinating me when he had the whole class watch videos of Milton Friedman telling us his utopian ideas of the free market? Or the numerous times in school where we listened to the sitting President at that time make a speech? I'm mean really. Can you guys who didn't vote for Obama just resign to the fact that he is our President? Can't you find some more legitimate issues this country is facing than gasp every time Obama blows his nose? Get over it already...seriously.

You keep bringing up other things, why? Two wrongs dont make a right. Show some consistency. You disagreed with what Reagan did right?

So if we address things like this we get accused of not being able to resign to the fact he is our president.... good grief. We have addressed huge issues like health care countless times, nobody's ignoring the big issues. We want to address these smaller things too and rightly so without being accused of being sour about Obama winning the election. We simply dont agree with it for good reasons, seriously stop accusing us of this sour grape nonsense. Its only a matter of time when you pull out your sour grape pic again.

Edited September 3, 2009 by _Simpson_

[GabiandVi 34]

Steve Im curious, do you support showing this in elementary schools? You havent been to clear about that

Why would I object to it? Was my Free Enterprise teacher indoctrinating me when he had the whole class watch videos of Milton Friedman telling us his utopian ideas of the free market? Or the numerous times in school where we listened to the sitting President at that time make a speech? I'm mean really. Can you guys who didn't vote for Obama just resign to the fact that he is our President? Can't you find some more legitimate issues this country is facing than gasp every time Obama blows his nose? Get over it already...seriously.

That's right. He is our President. He is not our "Great Leader," "The Great One," or the one we serve. We are not here to serve our President. It's his job to serve us. If you equate this video of people telling the viewers (children) to "serve the President," with a video of Milton Friedman discussing his theories, then again you miss the point. Like I said before, even though you choose to only understand one definition, not the most common, of the word indoctrinate, you are proof that it is what you define.

[alienlovechild 75]

Why would I object to it? Was my Free Enterprise teacher indoctrinating me when he had the whole class watch videos of Milton Friedman telling us his utopian ideas of the free market?

Freidman was enormously influential and I had no problem being taught Marxist theory in high school since it did have an impact on the world.

Or the numerous times in school where we listened to the sitting President at that time make a speech?

I only remember seeing Reagan's Inauguration speech and hearing the teacher tell the class how he'll get us into a nuclear war. We did watch CNN Headline News for five minutes a day in some social studies class. What kind of school did you attend where you were forced to watch presidential speeches numerous times? You sure it wasn't some film clip of one minute or two?

I'm mean really. Can you guys who didn't vote for Obama just resign to the fact that he is our President?

Believe me, we're more aware of that fact than you as nothing the man does bothers you.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Why would I object to it? Was my Free Enterprise teacher indoctrinating me when he had the whole class watch videos of Milton Friedman telling us his utopian ideas of the free market? Or the numerous times in school where we listened to the sitting President at that time make a speech? I'm mean really. Can you guys who didn't vote for Obama just resign to the fact that he is our President? Can't you find some more legitimate issues this country is facing than gasp every time Obama blows his nose? Get over it already...seriously.

You keep bringing up other things, why? Two wrongs dont make a right. Show some consistency. You disagreed with what Reagan did right?

So if we address things like this we get accused of not being able to resign to the fact he is our president.... good grief. We have addressed huge issues like health care countless times, nobody's ignoring the big issues. We want to address these smaller things too and rightly so without being accused of being sour about Obama winning the election. We simply dont agree with it for good reasons, seriously stop accusing us of this sour grape nonsense. Its only a matter of time when you pull out your sour grape pic again.

Nope. What I'm saying is that it is NOT INDOCRINATION! Propaganda, yes. Does propaganda bother me when it's the government doing it? It depends on the context. It is what it is and historically, you can trace political propaganda all the way back to the American Revolution.

The selective outrage, however, is nothing but sour grapes. Believe me, I'm going to compile a list of all the episodes of fake outrage by the Right Wingers the moment Obama was sworn in as President, including that one. It'll be a real crack up.

[GabiandVi 34]

"Radical leftist propaganda"

People do love to exaggerate

I agree this would be an exaggeration in this case. I think it is probably more misguided, but that is also frightening to me, that people are so enthralled by a personality that they see this video as being perfectly fine and they go so far as to make it.

But can you really defend that final sequence? It was really creepy. I wouldn't want my child to watch any video that used that image regardless of what the message was and whose image it was. I might excuse it in a religious situation where the image was of God or whoever you worship, but I find that final sequence as it is truly disturbing. And I find it disturbing that most of the population would not find it equally disturbing. This is how a cult of personality starts.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

...again you miss the point. Like I said before, even though you choose to only understand one definition, not the most common, of the word indoctrinate, you are proof that it is what you define.

Well Gabi, since you keep saying I'm missing the point, why don't you give me your definition of indoctrination then and include a real world example besides ones you accuse Obama of doing.

[GabiandVi 34]

...again you miss the point. Like I said before, even though you choose to only understand one definition, not the most common, of the word indoctrinate, you are proof that it is what you define.

Well Gabi, since you keep saying I'm missing the point, why don't you give me your definition of indoctrination then and include a real world example besides ones you accuse Obama of doing.

Here it is from page 3 post #45

QUOTE (Col. 'Bat' Guano @ Sep 4 2009, 03:53 AM)

QUOTE (GabiandVi @ Sep 3 2009, 12:40 PM)

QUOTE (Col. 'Bat' Guano @ Sep 4 2009, 03:30 AM)

Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology. It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned. As such it is used pejoratively.

.....

Some people's cognitive skills are at the level of a lizard.

Actually, if you think arguing semantics negates the argument, then I have to question your cognitive skills. Either you are trying to avoid the discussion because you have no legitimate response, or you really believe that this ends the argument. Either way, you totally miss the point.

Semantics? Are you kidding me? It's not bloody indoctrination by definition. It is propaganda though...which is what rubs some people here the wrong way because the message doesn't jive with their political ideology. The word, indoctrination, is nothing more than a buzzword used by the Right Wing to justify their selective outrage. An example of real indoctrination of youth would be David Koresh and the Branch Davidians....or that group of polygamists where the men were marrying girls as young as 14. That's indoctrination. It's just sad and really pathetic for some incapable of understanding what it is and recognizing it when it actually takes place.

Again, you are arguing the meaning of the word as though the meaning negates the argument. If it is indoctrination according to the definition you have stated this video is not good, but if it is not, there is nothing wrong with it. But let's go ahead and argue the semantics. Here's a definition you did not include. It's the first definition, which is the most common meaning according to how dictionaries are composed. (In case you didn't know that.)

in⋅doc⋅tri⋅nate  /ɪnˈdɒktrəˌneɪt/ –verb (used with object), -nat⋅ed, -nat⋅ing.

1. to instruct in a doctrine, principle, ideology, etc., esp. to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view.

2. to teach or inculcate.

3. to imbue with learning.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/indoctrination

There is no controversy between the meaning given above and with the way you claim the "Right Wing" uses this word in this instance, or, in fact, with the way the "Left Wing" has used and still uses it when referring to "Right Wing" actions. So your argument about this not being indoctrination and your argument about the intelligence of those who see this as indoctrination is shot.

But let's go with your definition of the word. How do you think David Koresh began his indoctrination of the youth? Jim Jones? Stalin? Mao? Or did the latter two not use this method according to your opinion? If you can't see some of the language used in this video and especially the last sequence with people chanting in unison as they shrink and disappear to be assumed into the image of a human being as indoctrination, then you have been indoctrinated. At the very least, you can be expected "not to question or critically examine" this video.

Here is the definition of inculcate (second definition above) in case you don't know it.

in⋅cul⋅cate  /ɪnˈkʌlkeɪt, ˈɪnkʌlˌkeɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-kuhl-keyt, in-kuhl-keyt] Show IPA

Use inculcate in a Sentence

See web results for inculcate

See images of inculcate

–verb (used with object), -cat⋅ed, -cat⋅ing. 1. to implant by repeated statement or admonition; teach persistently and earnestly (usually fol. by upon or in): to inculcate virtue in the young.

2. to cause or influence (someone) to accept an idea or feeling (usually fol. by with): Socrates inculcated his pupils with the love of truth.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Why would I object to it? Was my Free Enterprise teacher indoctrinating me when he had the whole class watch videos of Milton Friedman telling us his utopian ideas of the free market?

Freidman was enormously influential and I had no problem being taught Marxist theory in high school since it did have an impact on the world.

Your logic is flawed because what qualifies as indoctrination has nothing to do with the subject at hand but the method by which it is applied.

As I said earlier, indoctrination is a buzzword that the Right Wing has used describing liberal teachers teaching their students with a liberal agenda. A complete misuse of the term.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Gabi, if you really think that is a complete definition of the word and its meaning, then you should logically conclude that all schooling of children is a form of indoctrination. And if that is true, than indoctrination of our youth is happening everyday, in classrooms around the country. Should we then expand our outrage over our children being indoctrinated to all who are guilty of such an atrocity?

[rebeccajo 14]

Hey did I see Punky Brewster in there? It was refreshing to hear what Michael Strahan said about pledging to see himself as an American rather than an African American.

I think it sent out a good message for the most part. Nobody really disagrees with that I would think, well except maybe the stem cell research. Its how it begin and ends that had me scratching my head. To make this about Obama makes it political, jeez lets let our kids enjoy there youth before they have to start dealing with that #######. Why couldn't it be a pledge to our country or a servant to our country.

A lot of the lefties here would be up in arm if it was Reagan. I think Steve pointed out something Reagan did durning his presidency. Steve I dont think you would support that, why this?

I actually thought it was kind of stupid.

[GabiandVi 34]

Gabi, if you really think that is a complete definition of the word and its meaning, then you should logically conclude that all schooling of children is a form of indoctrination. And if that is true, than indoctrination of our youth is happening everyday, in classrooms around the country. Should we then expand our outrage over our children being indoctrinated to all who are guilty of such an atrocity?

You are the one who started arguing semantics. You quoted a definition to prove that it was not indoctrination. I quoted one, the more common one, to prove that it was. You want to argue that it is not indoctrination so there is no argument against the video. Well, you have been proven wrong. It is indoctrination according to the definition, the one I gave AND the one you gave. Whether or not the indotrination is successful does not erase the fact that it is indoctrinating.

But again, you have missed the point. Indoctrination works because it appeals to the senses. You don't have to beat someone and imprison them to indoctrinate them. YES! We have been indoctrinated about a lot of things! When I moved abroad, I realized how effective our indoctrination against littering had been. Thank goodness. I was shocked at how openly and shamelessly people dropped litter in the streets and how no one looked twice. It seem morally repulsive to me because I had been indoctrinated by those ads with the Native American crying as he viewed the pollution of his land.

If you can't see that that last sequence of this video is creepy at best, then, I'll say it again, you have been indoctrinated.