The Five Biggest Lies in the Health Care Debate

[Heracles 417]

The Govt has the power to create a monopoly we must use.... by force of law.

Ford can't do that.

Gov't is so inefficient because it can't go out of business. In fact, rather than go out of business it makes the Customer pay more via a tax hike or Bond.

See if I were the Govt leader and I thought I really could do it better and cheaper. I would gather all the people the Gov already provides medical coverage to now ... perhaps a 100 million and start with them.

Heck this pool is bigger than most nations.

Show us how well you can manage this "first phase".

So how is the government so efficient everywhere else? Rather than stereotyping an organization, why not list and tackle the problems. Even in this country alone, the difference in government from one county to the next can be huge. So it's those who run the government that are the issue. As in those who you vote in. Every government agency I have dealt with in my area has been quite efficient. Actually even before this health care debate, if some from abroad had asked me to list my grievances, all of them would involved dealing with private companies here, like comcast. Even USCIS has been good to me. Comcast? took 35 calls to transfer my phone number; which at one point they lost and said, "oh well, would you like another..".

The government in the US does not provide medical services to anyone, as they don't own the hospitals. Whereas, in my experience, there are hospitals in AUS that are much better run and better equipped than numerous private hospitals here; especially when considering smaller towns, where that private industry does not deem to be profitable enough to invest in. I'd rather be healed by a middle ages witch doctor than in some of those private hospitals.

Edited August 30, 2009 by haza

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I am still trying to figure out why government is bad. Why the government automatically will fail while private industry are champs at running things. Regardless of public or private, I have just as many examples of success as I do of incompetence and failure with either. Therefor, it is wrong to assume one is, by default, worse than the other.

Biggest difference is that unlike organizations, you guys get to vote in the government and hold them accountable. Do I get to vote out comcast because they are a rip off and incompetent, nope. Heck, even if I wanted to I couldn't use someone else.

Just say no to Comcast. I dumped them years ago. As with any utility, they have a franchise, and that franchise can be revoked at anytime for cause, and periodically, when the franchise comes up for review. And, there is competition out there for Comcast, via satellite, or DSL.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Mister_Bill

[rebeccajo 14]

See the problem is you are reading WAY TO MUCH into the bills and their exact wording.

Ya see everyone knows that the wording ... and promises given about any and all parts of this "plan" come with a short self-life.

What ever is agreed to now can be over turned by an administrator a Panel or at the most a Majority vote by the next grand-standing Politician eager to prove he "cares".

Everyone also knows that when the Gov gets involved and it is not working "to plan".... the answer is never to back-up, it is always to get in deeper.

Public Education is the most constant example.

This whole thing is no more than a "camels nose under the tent" by design anyway and no honest person pushing can deny that.

To your 5 points, I will just offer one.

1. By design, this is just the beginning of Public Health-Control.

Danno - What do you think your local health department does? Public Health Control? How about the CDC? FDA?

We wouldn't even have roads in this country if everybody was as "anti progress anti government" as you are.

[Heracles 417]

I am still trying to figure out why government is bad. Why the government automatically will fail while private industry are champs at running things. Regardless of public or private, I have just as many examples of success as I do of incompetence and failure with either. Therefor, it is wrong to assume one is, by default, worse than the other.

Biggest difference is that unlike organizations, you guys get to vote in the government and hold them accountable. Do I get to vote out comcast because they are a rip off and incompetent, nope. Heck, even if I wanted to I couldn't use someone else.

Just say no to Comcast. I dumped them years ago. As with any utility, they have a franchise, and that franchise can be revoked at anytime for cause, and periodically, when the franchise comes up for review. And, there is competition out there for Comcast, via satellite, or DSL.

DSL in the US is laughable with Verizon's 3 mb. My mobile is faster than that. Sat internet is just as crappy and way overpriced. So I am stuck until Verizon gets around to rolling out FIOS in my street. Even then, that makes two choices. I had around 30 providers in Melb, with DSL speeds well over 20mb. We even had two separate cable internet providers to choose from.

The cell companies are another joke of their own. Communications here is one big shaft and I can say that without a doubt as I work in the industry.

[Heracles 417]

We wouldn't even have roads in this country if everybody was as "anti progress anti government" as you are.

If you travel to counties where those types have a majority, their roads and infrastructure is usually on par with 2 or even 3rd world countries. Strangely enough these same places love receiving revenue from other counties in the states that are pro business and pro progress. I have seen better roads in India than in some counties here. At least in numerous developed countries they sweep all the metro area roads weekly. Whereas, people would have me burned at the stake for suggesting that here. Some clearly prefer shitty 3rd world looking roads than paying an extra $20 a year tax to clean them; strange considering these same people preach country first and all. Also why I laugh when these same types hate on Europe or anywhere else. It's freagin embarrassing to show people around when they visit, including the whitehouse and nation's capital.

I am going to start calling them the anti-anything, apart from military party. Now that is an investment for a country. A bridge falls down, f-ck it.. Does not matter if you end up dirt poor but as long as you have the military; all is good. Where have I heard this attitude before. Ah North Korea and other third world countries. Including what bankrupted the Soviet Union; where people were starving while they were building tanks.

Edited August 31, 2009 by haza

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

See if I were the Govt leader and I thought I really could do it better and cheaper. I would gather all the people the Gov already provides medical coverage to now ... perhaps a 100 million and start with them.

Well, the government does that already - it's called Medicare. It's a heck of a lot more efficient and it's recipients are a heck of a lot more happy with it than those stuck with overpriced and bureaucratic private insurance coverage.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I heard the other day from a lib that a bill doesnt exist. So ####### you guys fightin about?

[Danno 1,228]

See the problem is you are reading WAY TO MUCH into the bills and their exact wording.

Ya see everyone knows that the wording ... and promises given about any and all parts of this "plan" come with a short self-life.

What ever is agreed to now can be over turned by an administrator a Panel or at the most a Majority vote by the next grand-standing Politician eager to prove he "cares".

Everyone also knows that when the Gov gets involved and it is not working "to plan".... the answer is never to back-up, it is always to get in deeper.

Public Education is the most constant example.

This whole thing is no more than a "camels nose under the tent" by design anyway and no honest person pushing can deny that.

To your 5 points, I will just offer one.

1. By design, this is just the beginning of Public Health-Control.

Danno - What do you think your local health department does? Public Health Control? How about the CDC? FDA?

We wouldn't even have roads in this country if everybody was as "anti progress anti government" as you are.

"Anti progress"?

Anti Government"?

Not sure how you got that, I'm sure we only disagree on where the role of Govt stops, so if I am Anti.... so are you.

Gov't should do those things it was authorized to do and those things ONLY it can do.

(such as build roads and freeways)

Certainly people will debate and disagree what those areas are and hopefully the majority will come to the right conclusion.

[rebeccajo 14]

See the problem is you are reading WAY TO MUCH into the bills and their exact wording.

Ya see everyone knows that the wording ... and promises given about any and all parts of this "plan" come with a short self-life.

What ever is agreed to now can be over turned by an administrator a Panel or at the most a Majority vote by the next grand-standing Politician eager to prove he "cares".

Everyone also knows that when the Gov gets involved and it is not working "to plan".... the answer is never to back-up, it is always to get in deeper.

Public Education is the most constant example.

This whole thing is no more than a "camels nose under the tent" by design anyway and no honest person pushing can deny that.

To your 5 points, I will just offer one.

1. By design, this is just the beginning of Public Health-Control.

Danno - What do you think your local health department does? Public Health Control? How about the CDC? FDA?

We wouldn't even have roads in this country if everybody was as "anti progress anti government" as you are.

"Anti progress"?

Anti Government"?

Not sure how you got that, I'm sure we only disagree on where the role of Govt stops, so if I am Anti.... so are you.

Gov't should do those things it was authorized to do and those things ONLY it can do.

(such as build roads and freeways)

Certainly people will debate and disagree what those areas are and hopefully the majority will come to the right conclusion.

I get what I said from what you wrote - "See the problem is you are reading WAY TO MUCH into the bills and their exact wording."

Duh. What else does a bill mean except the "words"? Are you implying a bill can be passed and then not followed?

Do you pay attention at all to how government is run?

And I'd like you to find a spot in the constitution where it talks about building roads beyond providing a way for the Post Office to get mail to people. As Jenn's articles says, go read the Commerce clause of the Constitution.

Ya know - your arguments are starting to become laughable. Really. But then what else should we expect from somebody whose political commentary can best be summed up by an inflammatory signature?

Edited August 31, 2009 by rebeccajo

[Danno 1,228]

We wouldn't even have roads in this country if everybody was as "anti progress anti government" as you are.

If you travel to counties where those types have a majority, their roads and infrastructure is usually on par with 2 or even 3rd world countries. Strangely enough these same places love receiving revenue from other counties in the states that are pro business and pro progress. I have seen better roads in India than in some counties here. At least in numerous developed countries they sweep all the metro area roads weekly. Whereas, people would have me burned at the stake for suggesting that here. Some clearly prefer shitty 3rd world looking roads than paying an extra $20 a year tax to clean them; strange considering these same people preach country first and all. Also why I laugh when these same types hate on Europe or anywhere else. It's freagin embarrassing to show people around when they visit, including the whitehouse and nation's capital.

Hate to shoot you down again but; you will notice, the higher taxed areas seem to have no better and often worse roads.

[Tahoma 2,292]

We wouldn't even have roads in this country if everybody was as "anti progress anti government" as you are.

If you travel to counties where those types have a majority, their roads and infrastructure is usually on par with 2 or even 3rd world countries. Strangely enough these same places love receiving revenue from other counties in the states that are pro business and pro progress. I have seen better roads in India than in some counties here. At least in numerous developed countries they sweep all the metro area roads weekly. Whereas, people would have me burned at the stake for suggesting that here. Some clearly prefer shitty 3rd world looking roads than paying an extra $20 a year tax to clean them; strange considering these same people preach country first and all. Also why I laugh when these same types hate on Europe or anywhere else. It's freagin embarrassing to show people around when they visit, including the whitehouse and nation's capital.

Hate to shoot you down again but; you will notice, the higher taxed areas seem to have no better and often worse roads.

You "seem" unsure about this, and you "seem" to be guessing about this, and it "seems" that you didn't provide a link. Does it "seem" that way to you too?

In other words...typical Danno-logic.

[Danno 1,228]

See the problem is you are reading WAY TO MUCH into the bills and their exact wording.

Ya see everyone knows that the wording ... and promises given about any and all parts of this "plan" come with a short self-life.

What ever is agreed to now can be over turned by an administrator a Panel or at the most a Majority vote by the next grand-standing Politician eager to prove he "cares".

Everyone also knows that when the Gov gets involved and it is not working "to plan".... the answer is never to back-up, it is always to get in deeper.

Public Education is the most constant example.

This whole thing is no more than a "camels nose under the tent" by design anyway and no honest person pushing can deny that.

To your 5 points, I will just offer one.

1. By design, this is just the beginning of Public Health-Control.

Danno - What do you think your local health department does? Public Health Control? How about the CDC? FDA?

We wouldn't even have roads in this country if everybody was as "anti progress anti government" as you are.

"Anti progress"?

Anti Government"?

Not sure how you got that, I'm sure we only disagree on where the role of Govt stops, so if I am Anti.... so are you.

Gov't should do those things it was authorized to do and those things ONLY it can do.

(such as build roads and freeways)

Certainly people will debate and disagree what those areas are and hopefully the majority will come to the right conclusion.

I get what I said from what you wrote - "See the problem is you are reading WAY TO MUCH into the bills and their exact wording."

Duh. What else does a bill mean except the "words"? Are you implying a bill can be passed and then not followed?

Do you pay attention at all to how government is run?

And I'd like you to find a spot in the constitution where it talks about building roads beyond providing a way for the Post Office to get mail to people. As Jenn's articles says, go read the Commerce clause of the Constitution.

Ya know - your arguments are starting to become laughable. Really. But then what else should we expect from somebody whose political commentary can best be summed up by an inflammatory signature?

It's interesting you find one of the most popular Presidents words... inflammatory.

And yes I do suggest, having too much confidence in the Wording of a Bill is foolish.

As an example, consider Social security or the Beginning of Welfare.

Now look at what we have today, Both Acts include vast amounts of things never even imagined at their initial passing.

Now lets not play games,

Q: Do you actually believe any Healthcare legislation passed would prevent the further growth of Government in this area?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

The objective is to get more Americans access to healthcare when they need it.

The objective is not to shrink government.

You've picked the wrong metric, once again.

[Danno 1,228]

We wouldn't even have roads in this country if everybody was as "anti progress anti government" as you are.

If you travel to counties where those types have a majority, their roads and infrastructure is usually on par with 2 or even 3rd world countries. Strangely enough these same places love receiving revenue from other counties in the states that are pro business and pro progress. I have seen better roads in India than in some counties here. At least in numerous developed countries they sweep all the metro area roads weekly. Whereas, people would have me burned at the stake for suggesting that here. Some clearly prefer shitty 3rd world looking roads than paying an extra $20 a year tax to clean them; strange considering these same people preach country first and all. Also why I laugh when these same types hate on Europe or anywhere else. It's freagin embarrassing to show people around when they visit, including the whitehouse and nation's capital.

Hate to shoot you down again but; you will notice, the higher taxed areas seem to have no better and often worse roads.

You "seem" unsure about this, and you "seem" to be guessing about this, and it "seems" that you didn't provide a link. Does it "seem" that way to you too?

In other words...typical Danno-logic.

Well I see Ole Free Spirit is putting in his 2 cents again.

Thanks for adding

[Danno 1,228]

The objective is to get more Americans access to healthcare when they need it.

The objective is not to shrink government.

You've picked the wrong metric, once again.

Shrinking?

Thats an unrealistic fantasy.

Heading -off another program with run away spending with and marginal results is more the aim.